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Author Topic: [ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000  (Read 2115864 times)
xizmax
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January 20, 2015, 06:14:28 PM
 #17041


On a more serious note, I think a good approach would be to talk to storage manufacturers about accepting Burst Smiley

Seagate, WD and the like Smiley

this could be interesting...
but i want to know..

nobody is working to reach this???

We in the PR core team are already working on this, have already sent letters to the manufacturers, etc.

That is very nice. We must work on promotion, not only to get merchants but to expand the userbase as well as people mentioned already.
Burst is undervalued and underappreciated, it is upon us to set the record straight.

Also, great work on new pool code crowetic :thumbsup:


Thank you, but it wasn't me who developed it. It was catbref! I take no responsibility aside from managing the whole thing. That's basically my role in all of this, I'm a financier, manager. I just facilitate the projects, and do the mining. Smiley

I am aware of that and did not mean to detract anything from catbref's work. Also, we need good managers and financiers too, not just coders Smiley

Hell, we need as many people as we can get Cheesy

BURST, your C:\urrency
Follow us on https://twitter.com/burstcoin_dev
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January 20, 2015, 06:39:07 PM
 #17042


On a more serious note, I think a good approach would be to talk to storage manufacturers about accepting Burst Smiley

Seagate, WD and the like Smiley

this could be interesting...
but i want to know..

nobody is working to reach this???

We in the PR core team are already working on this, have already sent letters to the manufacturers, etc.

this is really a good news for burst ecosistem...

why PR team do not open an proper thread and all update will be write there?

thank to PR team for all the work!

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GenTarkin
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January 20, 2015, 06:57:05 PM
 #17043

So, has any theorizing about attack vectors n the like or studies been done on this form of mining algo?
What are its downfalls etc....

Im thoroughly interested in this method of securing a crypto, this coin has peaked my interest greatly =) too bad I dont have TB's and TB's of storage lallygagging around lol!

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
crowetic
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January 20, 2015, 06:59:33 PM
 #17044


On a more serious note, I think a good approach would be to talk to storage manufacturers about accepting Burst Smiley

Seagate, WD and the like Smiley

this could be interesting...
but i want to know..

nobody is working to reach this???

We in the PR core team are already working on this, have already sent letters to the manufacturers, etc.

this is really a good news for burst ecosistem...

why PR team do not open an proper thread and all update will be write there?

thank to PR team for all the work!

Sure, we could open a thread to discuss that, at the moment it's looking like I'm going to have to make an announcement of something that isn't so great... I'm figuring out what needs t happen about this issue shortly.



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January 20, 2015, 07:00:15 PM
 #17045


On a more serious note, I think a good approach would be to talk to storage manufacturers about accepting Burst Smiley

Seagate, WD and the like Smiley

this could be interesting...
but i want to know..

nobody is working to reach this???

We in the PR core team are already working on this, have already sent letters to the manufacturers, etc.

this is really a good news for burst ecosistem...

why PR team do not open an proper thread and all update will be write there?

thank to PR team for all the work!

Sure, we could open a thread to discuss that, at the moment it's looking like I'm going to have to make an announcement of something that isn't so great... I'm figuring out what needs t happen about this issue shortly.

great job crowetic!!!
waiting for the thread opening

 Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink

thank you very much!!!
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January 20, 2015, 07:01:06 PM
 #17046

So, has any theorizing about attack vectors n the like or studies been done on this form of mining algo?
What are its downfalls etc....

Im thoroughly interested in this method of securing a crypto, this coin has peaked my interest greatly =) too bad I dont have TB's and TB's of storage lallygagging around lol!

I know a lot of people have said something like BURST is 4096 times stronger than BTC algo? I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure one of the developers will be able to answer that question for you.

BURST is a simply amazing crypto, and I think it's going to make a lot of the community very happy shortly Smiley



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January 20, 2015, 07:04:08 PM
 #17047

You simple don't want my money, heh...? Well, I'll give it another try Wink



We need help from the community! So why not a little competition hehe

A Second Competition
What we need is
1) a better presentation on the Twitter account (winner submission will get 10,000 burst
2) a list of tweets about burst (selected winners will get 2,000 burst, where the maximum payout from us is 50,000 burst)

Competitors are allowed to submit how many suggestions they want, but only the onces picked will be paid. Proper English is not a prerequisite, the team will handle that (not me Wink )

How to participate
Please do not post your submissions in the thread, as that might be against the rules of bitcointalk. Instead:
1) email your BURST address, 2) your name on bitcointalk and 3) your suggestions. The email address is  burst@countermail.com
2) cope/paste the exact text from the email and PM them to me here at bitcointalk. If you do not both email and PM your answer will be out of competition.

Please note that a tweet and a presentation can be no longer than 150 characters!



Good luck, have fun - and please help BURST!

BURST Community PR team


First price for 10,000 BURST goes to xizmax for a new Twitter presentation - congratulations! Send me your address and you'll get the coins. The presentation can be seen here

Remember that 50,000 still is up for grabs if you email tweets we can send out. That's must be considered easy money Wink

I would also want to encourage BURSTers to follow us and retweet what's going on! We have only 400 followers right now, but could reach many more with your help Cheesy

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January 20, 2015, 07:08:49 PM
 #17048

So, has any theorizing about attack vectors n the like or studies been done on this form of mining algo?
What are its downfalls etc....

Im thoroughly interested in this method of securing a crypto, this coin has peaked my interest greatly =) too bad I dont have TB's and TB's of storage lallygagging around lol!

I know a lot of people have said something like BURST is 4096 times stronger than BTC algo? I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure one of the developers will be able to answer that question for you.

BURST is a simply amazing crypto, and I think it's going to make a lot of the community very happy shortly Smiley

we are all waiting for this!!!
Burst to da moon!!

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January 20, 2015, 08:29:52 PM
 #17049

So, has any theorizing about attack vectors n the like or studies been done on this form of mining algo?
What are its downfalls etc....

Im thoroughly interested in this method of securing a crypto, this coin has peaked my interest greatly =) too bad I dont have TB's and TB's of storage lallygagging around lol!

I know a lot of people have said something like BURST is 4096 times stronger than BTC algo? I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure one of the developers will be able to answer that question for you.

BURST is a simply amazing crypto, and I think it's going to make a lot of the community very happy shortly Smiley

Yes, there was quite a bit of talk about ASIC resistance and the resilience of the algorithm. However, it is not really easy to dig it up in this monster thread (the search function isn't really cooperative either). I am sure, burstcoin devs can provide more info on that. Either way, GenTarkin you do not need a bajillion of TB to mine, you can get by with a TB or two just to get your feet wet Smiley

Thanks to mmmaybe for choosing my wording Smiley hope you fellas like it as well.

BURST, your C:\urrency
Follow us on https://twitter.com/burstcoin_dev
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January 20, 2015, 08:33:10 PM
 #17050


Thanks to mmmaybe for choosing my wording Smiley hope you fellas like it as well.

I choose or do nothing, crow makes all the calls  Grin

If anything fails, just blame him! Smiley

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January 20, 2015, 08:34:54 PM
 #17051

Burst 1.2.1

Download: https://mega.co.nz/#!TsgWkDyQ!lyJz_bEf29FyaC6DdRgqjM2NV8AkaSUC1gPtIWwHx08
sha256: feda672f8bc5eabb31e56ebf78dc26d43a3422d24de22de277e59fc72a20fd19

All users should update as soon as possible.

Fixed some AT bugs which could cause the blockchain to get stuck. Also changed a check during block generation which was causing some things to get skipped as duplicates when the thing they conflicted with wasn't passing validation. This should help with the problems some users have been having with reward assignments recently.

I've updated my wallets.
Would be great if you update the run.bat files so that every current java version is recognized (8u25 is currently not recognized correctly, but working after editing the run.bat file).

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January 20, 2015, 09:59:22 PM
 #17052

Can someone write a good tweet about/explaining BURST's ASIC Resistance (max 140 char)?

5,000 BURST to the one we chose! Smiley

Email burst@countermail.com with your contribution.

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January 20, 2015, 11:22:22 PM
 #17053


Thanks to mmmaybe for choosing my wording Smiley hope you fellas like it as well.

I choose or do nothing, crow makes all the calls  Grin

If anything fails, just blame him! Smiley

It's all good, people blame me regardless. lol. xD



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traderman
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January 20, 2015, 11:56:39 PM
 #17054

I wrote this article on Burst a while back on my blog, what do you think about it? http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/12/burst-cryptocurrency-minable-with-your.html

I can prob whip up another one on ASIC resistance. Smiley Or maybe add to the existing article.

Donations -> BURST-3DZV-X67N-3K9S-G3XK7

Can someone write a good tweet about/explaining BURST's ASIC Resistance (max 140 char)?

5,000 BURST to the one we chose! Smiley

Email burst@countermail.com with your contribution.
mmmaybe
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January 21, 2015, 12:09:40 AM
 #17055

I wrote this article on Burst a while back on my blog, what do you think about it? http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/12/burst-cryptocurrency-minable-with-your.html

I can prob whip up another one on ASIC resistance. Smiley Or maybe add to the existing article.

Donations -> BURST-3DZV-X67N-3K9S-G3XK7

Can someone write a good tweet about/explaining BURST's ASIC Resistance (max 140 char)?

5,000 BURST to the one we chose! Smiley

Email burst@countermail.com with your contribution.

Nice work! Is it ok if I tweet about your article? Will send you a donation too Smiley

traderman
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January 21, 2015, 12:10:18 AM
 #17056

Go right ahead! Smiley

I wrote this article on Burst a while back on my blog, what do you think about it? http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/12/burst-cryptocurrency-minable-with-your.html

I can prob whip up another one on ASIC resistance. Smiley Or maybe add to the existing article.

Donations -> BURST-3DZV-X67N-3K9S-G3XK7

Can someone write a good tweet about/explaining BURST's ASIC Resistance (max 140 char)?

5,000 BURST to the one we chose! Smiley

Email burst@countermail.com with your contribution.

Nice work! Is it ok if I tweet about your article? Will send you a donation too Smiley
mmmaybe
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January 21, 2015, 12:11:36 AM
 #17057

Thanks Smiley If you planning to write some more, let us know. We need writers in the PR team  Wink

mmmaybe
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January 21, 2015, 12:19:13 AM
 #17058

Go right ahead! Smiley

I wrote this article on Burst a while back on my blog, what do you think about it? http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/12/burst-cryptocurrency-minable-with-your.html

I can prob whip up another one on ASIC resistance. Smiley Or maybe add to the existing article.

Donations -> BURST-3DZV-X67N-3K9S-G3XK7

Can someone write a good tweet about/explaining BURST's ASIC Resistance (max 140 char)?

5,000 BURST to the one we chose! Smiley

Email burst@countermail.com with your contribution.

Nice work! Is it ok if I tweet about your article? Will send you a donation too Smiley

Is that your picture in the article? I like it! Smiley

Please re-tweet it too! HERE /url]

mmmaybe
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January 21, 2015, 12:31:20 AM
 #17059

Great work today, guys Smiley Quite a bit has been done even if it doesn't is apparent yet.  Wink

burstcoin
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January 21, 2015, 12:48:46 AM
 #17060

So, has any theorizing about attack vectors n the like or studies been done on this form of mining algo?
What are its downfalls etc....

Im thoroughly interested in this method of securing a crypto, this coin has peaked my interest greatly =) too bad I dont have TB's and TB's of storage lallygagging around lol!

So far there are no known attacks, however there are a few weaknesses, although some of them can be solved with an updated algorithm.

1. Not much at stake.
Many people consider the ability to mine multiple chains at the same time without a significant increase in resource consumption to be a major weakness in PoS algorithms, and this would apply partially to PoC as well. In PoC you could mine multiple chains at once, although do to disk bandwidth limits you would be able to mine significantly less chains than you would with PoS as you would be reading different parts for each chain, and therefore electricity consumption would also increase from doing so. This puts it in between PoW and PoS, although much closer to PoS in the 'nothing at stake' argument.

2. Block verification cost
The strategy of hashing the nonce and account many times in advance and saving the result may result in a constant low computational cost for checking the nonce later, but everyone else still needs to run the whole hashing cycle on that nonce to verify the block. This results in very high computational cost for verifying blocks, and blockchain syncing being cpu bound.

3. Inability to scale to higher processing power
Over the life of bitcoin, hashrate improvements have been much more significant than improvements in hdd capacity. The amount of work added in advance in PoC is constant, so if a similar arms race was to occur, significant enough processing power advances could cause PoW mining to become more efficient than mining PoC as intended. One user ran some calculation trying to estimate how the most efficient sha256 asics would compare in efficiency to hdd mining. Although the calculations were flawed, as they assumed 1 sha256 hash == 1 shabal256 hash regardless of the number of rounds done for the hash, if adjusted to assume 1 round of sha256 == 1 round of shabal256 they estimated those asics would have about 2x the efficiency of using hdds. Although having it within the same order of magnitude isn't too bad, and wouldn't provide enough of an incentive to actually design the hardware, it does show that it may already be possible to achieve better efficiency that way, and the gap could widen in the future.

4. Higher PoW resistance requires higher portion of data being read
Under the current PoC system, increasing the number of scoops(which would decrease the amount of data read each block) would also decrease the effective hashrate/TB, however the hashrate from trying to mine it PoW style would be unaffected. This is a bad trend as reading higher portions of the disk each block provides higher PoW resistance, which is also worse for HDD life.

5. High blocktime variance
Due to the high amount of diskspace used per nonce, the total amount of nonces checked per block is very low compared to PoW coins. This leads to higher variance in block times.

And this is why we need PoC2.

PoC2 has only been mentioned a few times publicly, but is a second hdd mining algorithm I plan to add in addition to the original POC. The original PoC will continue to remain as long as problems related to it don't start. PoC2 should solve points 2-4 above. A (very slow) miner for it was hacked together for it a few weeks ago, although it has not yet been implemented in the client.

PoC2 started on irc some time ago during a discussion about the block verification cost, mczarnek posed the question about whether plots could be generated similarly to how PoW mining works, so verification would be just comparing a hash to a target. The end result of this once thought out was that plot files could store nonces instead of hashes, and there would be constraints on the nonces that could be used, so you'd be storing allowed nonces. When mining, you would only be able to use nonces where hash(account concat nonce) < target, and hash(hash(account concat nonce)) mod totalscoops == currentscoop. Plotting would then be similar to PoW mining for that target, and then sorting the results into buckets based on the second hash. The appropriate bucket could then be read each block and network state, account id, and nonce could then just be hashed together looking for the lowest result.

2. Block verification cost
Verification would be cheap. 1 hash would be needed to compare to the target, another would be needed to calculate the scoop, and a third would be needed to check the deadline.

3. Processing power scaling
The target can be set to slowly decrease over time. Although this would change the current rule that you never have to re-plot, users would able to plot setting the target knowing how long the plot would be usable for. Both mining with the finished plots and verifying the blocks would remain constant cost regardless of the target. As plotting and PoW style mining would become harder over time it would help prevent gains in processing power from causing PoW to become more efficient.

4. Under PoC2, changing the amount of scoops also directly affects PoW mining hashrate the same way. This allows it to be scaled to higher or lower portions of the disk being read each block without decreasing PoW resistance. Initial testing showed that storing nonces as 4 byte differences between the previous one in each bucket should be doable, which if the scoop number was adjusted to have PoC and PoC2 have the same hashrate/space used would require only 16MB/TB/block to be read, instead of the current 256MB/TB/block. A scaling factor could also be applied to the base difficulty to lower that even further, however it would make variance even worse.

BURST-QHCJ-9HB5-PTGC-5Q8J9
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