Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[imsaguy]

Do you think this address is plausible?
https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=1DkyBEKt5S2GDtv7aQw6rQepAvnsRyHoYM

It's cashed out about 220,000BTC since the collapse.

NO!

The user controlling that address is not pirate40!

1)  really?  seems like it

2)  any proof it's not?

I actually asked Maged about this earlier but haven't heard back yet. 

[miscreanity]

Based on the information we have (which is not complete), he most likely got out with around 200k BTC. However, we never analyzed the last week to get those withdrawal numbers and it's also very likely that most of the BTC was sold at around $5. Worst case, he still got away with half a million USD, although it is more likely closer to $1 million USD.

I have a problem with taking anyone's word on this information. If it doesn't matter now that Pirate has shut down, why not release it? The accusing party demanded that Pirate release information, yet won't share its own discovery? What's so proprietary about this admittedly inconsequential information? The royal 'we' sounds like an excuse.

I believe there's a word for this: hypocrisy.

Another problem I have - if Pirate was running a scam and this information is relevant, then the longer it takes for it to be opened to further scrutiny, the longer Pirate has to obscure his trail. Intervening during a crime in progress depends heavily on information. As far as I'm concerned right now, the information is either fabricated, or the parties involved with it are obstructing community efforts to discover what's going on.

Or maybe Maged is Pirate, spreading more misinformation.

[jbreher]

1)  BurtW, ...

3)  The arrogance and outright lies he spread make me sick.

All right Micon - that's a friend of mine you are speaking about. Do you have proof that BurtW has lied about anything? Please quote.

And what about your lies, hmmmm? Provide evidence for the following blind assertions you made in a single post:

"BurtW helped Pirateat40 funnel 100k's of BTC to his scam via PPT bonds" - hint - you've already been corrected in this very thread.

"never invested his own monies" - while I could be anyone claiming anything, I know this assertion to be false. But most importantly, where's your evidence? You do not have any, because you are lying. Making it up as you go along.

In the course of just a couple weeks, you've gone off uncountable times half-cocked with wild assertions that are provably false. With never a mea culpa, apology, or retraction. I think you mean well in general, but your buffoonery is casting a lot of collateral damage. Put that thing away before somebody really gets hurt.

1)  retraction - looks like BurtW was not as smart as i thought.  if he fired his own BTC and set up the PPT system AND posted that it for sure wasnt a ponzi in his sig and i almost forgot about the fake $10k Bet thread.....  im now thinking this is a guy that Believed Pirate lies in totality

You are careening from wall to wall here. So is BurtW an evil mastermind co-conspirator actively stealing vast sums, or a hapless simpleton to be preyed upon by the typical denizen of back alleys? You can't have it both ways.

2)  i think we need to add up some #'s and see how Big of a co-conspirator BurtW is.  looks like he will rank #2 to payb.tc.  I should have ran the math first or phrased it different, but its a considerable sum.  how many BTC are the total of the last round of bonds? those are all Pirate profit now.

You're thrashing again. GLBSE lists the total bonds issued for each and every security. Never mind the fact that BurtW is no longer affiliated with the PPT.x issues. But that has been openly announced. And no, *I'm* not looking it up on your behalf either. Do your own damn legwork.

3) my main assertions are full-cocked, and all look to be 100% true (are you reading the same thread?) this was about Pirate being a total Ponzi schemer paying 7%/wk and it would go boom soon - and it went boom

As far as Pirate being a Ponzi operator, current preponderance of evidence is on your side. Personally, I consider the final verdict still to be out. But the central point is that you've made scores of other assertions that are provably false.

I'm just suggesting that you be a bit more precise about your accusations. To do otherwise makes you look the fool.

[JoelKatz]

You are careening from wall to wall here. So is BurtW an evil mastermind co-conspirator actively stealing vast sums, or a hapless simpleton to be preyed upon by the typical denizen of back alleys? You can't have it both ways.

Amazingly, you can have both. You can have people who are evil masterminds with respect to those they solicit investments from and hapless simpletons with respect to those they pay the money to. It's actually not an uncommon characteristic of Ponzi schemes.

It's the flipside of the fact that you will find both arguments that "Everyone knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so people who lost money weren't really scammed" and "We still don't know it's a Ponzi". You will even see these two completely contradictory arguments made by the same people within a few minutes.

The basic psychology is that on a rational level, you know that it is almost certainly a Ponzi. But you still believe irrationally that if you invest you will make money, likely because you think it's still early. So you act on the belief, that you really don't have, that you don't "really know" that it's a Ponzi "for sure". You convince yourself the on-paper profits you will never withdraw are real, so you start to believe that you are doing well and that convincing others to join will actually help them. And, of course, it will help you. Then you start using pressure and deception to solicit others, telling yourself it's to help them, but of course (coincidentally) it also helps you. However, you are still a sucker falling for a Ponzi scheme.

You really are both a hapless simpleton and an evil mastermind at the same time. Amazing but true.

Consider a PPT operator who says the equivalent of, "Yeah, I guess I knew it was probably a Ponzi scheme, but I still figured people could get in early enough that they'd still make money." Simpleton or mastermind?

[drrussellshane]

Joel, how do you feel about Social Security, and the people who participate in it?

[bitlane]

Guys...guys....guys..... !

Pirate is going to pay. He contacted the PPT Operators and everything.

Please stop all of the hate.

[Clipse]

Id love to know what news he got for the PPT cause he just announced defaulting in irc, fuck knows whats going on. :/

Paybtc have any news on this ?

[Shadow383]

Pirate just declared default:

<pirateat40> As much as I've tried to meet the deadlines within the community, there're conditions beyond my control which have escalated the process to the point it is today.
<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders.

<pirateat40> No timeline or further information is available at this time.

This is from #btcst channel, the official bitcoin savings and trust chat.

Hey! BurtW! Might want to update your bet thread 

[jbreher]

You are careening from wall to wall here. So is BurtW an evil mastermind co-conspirator actively stealing vast sums, or a hapless simpleton to be preyed upon by the typical denizen of back alleys? You can't have it both ways.

Amazingly, you can have both. You can have people who are evil masterminds with respect to those they solicit investments from and hapless simpletons with respect to those they pay the money to. It's actually not an uncommon characteristic of Ponzi schemes.

...

Consider a PPT operator who says the equivalent of, "Yeah, I guess I knew it was probably a Ponzi scheme, but I still figured people could get in early enough that they'd still make money." Simpleton or mastermind?

C'mon, Joel. That is _clearly_ not what I was replying to. I was directly addressing Micon's assertion that BurtW was simultaneously so stupid that he put his own money in Pirate, and that he was so evil that he duped others into the scheme, under full knowledge that it was a fraud.

And if you back up a couple of posts, the instigating factor was the outright lies being propagated by Micon.

[Shadow383]

I was directly addressing Micon's assertion that BurtW was simultaneously so stupid that he put his own money in Pirate, and that he was so evil that he duped others into the scheme, under full knowledge that it was a fraud.

I don't for even a tenth of a second believe that he actually added 10kBTC to a bullshit & trust account when he says he did.
The guy's a scammer, not a moron.

[peasant]

At least we have some closure here. Good thing i got into bitcoin late, and never had the option to put a large sum into PPT. And it all goes BOOM! 

[Frankie]

Pirate just declared default:

<pirateat40> As much as I've tried to meet the deadlines within the community, there're conditions beyond my control which have escalated the process to the point it is today.
<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders.

<pirateat40> No timeline or further information is available at this time.

This is from #btcst channel, the official bitcoin savings and trust chat.

Hey! BurtW! Might want to update your bet thread 

Why so soon?  Default doesn't mean no one gets paid, as Goat repeatedly points out.  It just means no one gets paid now.  Around Christmastime 2013, BurtW will post "Week 70: 1,065,321 coins.  Heck yeah, over a million coins!  Got anything that compares, Team Ponzi?  I thought not."

Of course, I doubt he had a fraction of his claim with Pirate at the collapse.  Unlike OP, I think BurtW was a shill top-to-bottom.  The sort of Ponzi doublethink Joel describes is far too charitable for a passthrough operator who pitches to newbies and attacks anyone making obvious observations.

[miscreanity]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

[bitlane]

Around Christmastime 2013, BurtW will post "Week 70: 1,065,321 coins.  Heck yeah, over a million coins!  Got anything that compares, Team Ponzi?  I thought not."

I nearly pissed my pants reading and trying to re-quote this just now.....

[gene]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

I think this script-bot is a bit haywire...

[JoelKatz]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

What makes you think it's voluntary?! Every Ponzi scheme defaults sooner or later when they no longer have enough reserves plus deposits to pay withdrawals (unless there's an arrest first).

[DeathAndTaxes]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

Pirate didn't voluntarily default today.  He involuntarily defaulted 12 days ago when he was unable to payout withdraws requested.  Everything since then has been a dog and pony show.  One doesn't need to "declare" a default.  A default is not meeting your debt obligations.  You default by your actions.  

Pirate offered investors suckers DEMAND ACCOUNTS that means they can be withdrawn ON DEMAND without delay.  On 08/17 some accont holders made a DEMAND to withdraw their funds and that demand wasn't met.  At that instant Pirate was in default.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.

[Shadow383]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

[bitlane]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

...BUT...did anyone get a free steak dinner and photo OP out of the deal, during it's 'Glory Days' ?

Perhaps some see 'value' differently than others. Being 'Starstruck' is not always a bad thing....

[Shadow383]

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

...BUT...did anyone get a free steak dinner and photo OP out of the deal, during it's 'Glory Days' ?

People got multi-million dollar bribes and extremely expensive gifts