Even if Black Arrow delivers in time,iits still 2 and a half months away.By that time bitcoin difficulty will increase so much that we wont earn coins anywhere close like we are calculating now.
wrong. black arrow is due in 60 -75 days 5 or 6 diff adjustments. do your math at 30% you get this 908 mill now 1180 mill dec 22 1535 mill jan 4 1995 mill jan 16 2594 mill jan 28 3372 mill feb 9 4384 mill feb 21 machine comes in you have 2th it earns about .25 coins a day if coins stay at 1000 you would have a chance to turn a profit. at just 27 % that feb 21 number is 3000 mill machine comes in you earn .334 coins a day if coins stay at 1000 you would most likely make money lastly at 25% that feb 21 number is 2775 machine comes in you earn .36 btc a day if coins are at 1000 you would get into the range of good money made just drop done a little more to 20% you get 2260 mill machine comes in you earn .44 btc a day at 1000 a coin you will do very well. many ifs |
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I have a question once yahoo fixes open id can i have a second open id set up as a backup ?
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congrats 2 more rounds of dz coop hashing
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I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.
that was not so clever as you may think.
frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.
I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me. If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC? Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try. The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide. Yes I am . here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer. Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop. So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares? Okay lets put this another way. I believe in the coop. I believe in black arrow and I believe r17 will whale. I have a degree in accounting and have years of tax /investment experience .. DzCoop has 70% of its hash in r17. if the gear sucks DzCoop is really going to take a hit. Since r9 -r12 buyers have 3x their fiat and the gear has problems and r17 is coming closer.. Here are the possible out comes 1)R17 is great. this means all older gear is not so great. maybe only 10-15 % of what it is now 2)R17 is meh. this means all older gear is still not so great but lets say a 70% drop not an 85% drop in power 3)R17 is terrible crashing and burning dzcoop to the ground 4)Dzcoop are bad guys and vanish in a few days. All of the above are possible. 1)If the first one is true voting no to sale r9-r12 prevents putting the money into r17 2)If the second one is true voting no to the sale of r9-r12 is less bad but still prevents picking more of r17 or bailing out of both 3)If the third is true voting no prevents getting out some cash now. 4)lastly if this is true insisting on the buyout might expose the con ending sales in r17 so less is stolen. I would like my 11 x 287 = 3157 usd .. I would buy 10 shares of r17 1300 keep 1 btc = 957 usd and cash for 900 usd at coin base. this investment move above would be pretty much unbeatable compared to mining with my 11 underperforming shares. 1 share = 8.3 gh that will not mine 287 usd at today's prices. 11 share = 91.3 gh this will not mine 3157 usd at today prices. If coins go down it is worse to have held. if we sold and I cash 900 usd I lower that problem. If coins go up I simply will be holding 1 btc so I will do okay. If diff goes nuts. I will turn my 91.3 gh into 400 gh. |
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I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.
that was not so clever as you may think.
frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.
I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me. If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC? Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try. The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide. Yes I am . here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer. Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop. So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares? |
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do you realize you can buy smaller amounts here :
and that they have an on going pro to type here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328996.0 hashing made money has bugs https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=335145.0 you can buy at 130 a share 50 shares comes to 6500 a miner a small premium . read carefully both threads. I have 2 shares of this. r17 read the r9 -r12 yeah it is long but it is your money. I have 11 shares of it. If this is a real company and if the r17 buy is good all older gear sucks. since i made money on the r9 to r12 . I grabbed some r17. I am on the fence as to purchasing 10 more shares for 400gh |
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do you realize you can buy smaller amounts here :
and that they have an on going pro to type here
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There is currently a problem logging in using Yahoo OpenID identities. I am looking into it.
Apparently Yahoo changed something about their login mechanism today.
No need to send a support request about this. I am already on it.
thanks doc |
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I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.
that was not so clever as you may think. here is why I say that. all of us depend on dzcoop to be nice guys non thief's yada yada yada. worse case is they are brilliant thieves. well if they are great crooks. you play into their hands. why may you ask. here is why. most of dzcoops money is in r17 and it is a lot of the money. more then 70%. Right now I know where the miner facility is located but they have said they are getting a new one. they are putting all of r17 into the new one. Sooo if they close the old one down and go poof lets say on feb 15 they will score huge money . and instead of r9 r10 r11 r12 being a solid winner guys likes you hurt the rest of us. frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12. I for one believe in them and would not hesitate to spend more on r17 as I think they are honest but the share holders that are doubting dzcoop should have all voted to take the money. voting to keep mining because you doubt dzcoop is not very logical. they have more then 250000 usd in coin locked up in r17 they could bolt and where would you be? I for one am ahead and I have faith in them. I voted for dissolving this for many reasons not the long slow deep con reason above. But when some one states they think something is crooked and lacks trust well then I had to point out what the f is your reasoning they have 4 or 5 fold the money in r17 dude and they could go poof on any day. So why let them hold your money here? |
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Product Description
Details:
Quantity: 50 per machine
Price per: $130
Hashpower: ~40gh/s
Delivery: February 2014
Hosting: $175 per payout (1st and 15th of each month)
Management Fee: 0.5%
This is a Group Buy exclusive you won’t find any other group buy being able to sell these units.
Quote
Group buys: Group buys are not permitted. We will cancel any order that we discover that is a group buy and will refund the payment minus 10% that we will charge for our time wasted in this matter. By placing an order for this item you agree with the above.
We will be the only coop able to offer the Black Arrow Prospero x-3.
R17 will not be able to be oversold, we have plenty of hashpower available.
Refunds: Refunds are discouraged because of the chaos caused in Group Buys, but if necessary, you will be refunded before the miner ships, at a 1.5% restock fee. After the miner ships, no refunds are available. This information I read it here http://www.dzminercoop.com/?product=r17-black-arrow-prospero-x-3- The Hosting $175 per payout is per share, per share holder, or per machine? - Why it said Group Buy is not permit? I'm getting lost here. Thank you no 175 per payout spread over the entire set of shareholders. peanuts about 10 cents a share group buy not permitted does not apply here as bob is the usa rep to black arrow. the sale goes to him then he sells it to us as a group buy. |
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can't sign in.
I get this:
OpenID Failure: 0x707: Fatal transport error: peer not authenticated
I use my yahoo email and I am signed into yahoo. tried on safari chrome and firefox
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fix the coupon code please!
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so if 2 sticks take 1000 days to earn a coin
you ebayers you Tell you what, without eBayers etc these things would not get out in the hands of the vast majority of the public. If you didn't know, Bitcointalk.org is not the center of the universe, the vast majority of people do not know about this site. he is having fun. its cool, dog |
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one last try to explain this.
1 share of r 9 = 8gh hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.
I have 157 in my pocket. and 40th Down the road.
I paid only 123 for one share of r9
i have collected .23 in btc and
I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now. if diff stays at 25% we
jump to 883 on the 11th
jump to 1104 on the 22th
jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan
jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan
jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan
jump to 2696 on the 4th feb
jump to 3371 on the 11th feb
jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb. this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff. so once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now. and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid. 130 of the 287
if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash.
BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh so 287 gets you 26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.
So if you really want to hash buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.
It's definitely worth discussing this, but in my position this has two issues. 1. Swapping short-term risk (not being able to get hashrate up) for long-term risk (new hardware is delivered and hashes as advertised) 2. Putting all my eggs in one basket. I already have shares in R17. I'd like to keep my shares diversified if possible. well then hold as btc. look we are at a race track with many tracks races and horses to pick one race has horse named " hold the btc " another race has a horse named " l Love Dz coop " we bet I love dz coop and it came in basically we got 3 to 1 on our bet. if you bet hold the btc you would have got about 6 to 1. every one that feels bad is feeling bad about picking a lessor winner in a different race and everyone that resists taking profit is making the ones that want to cash out on the winner wait and risk winnings. The machines will not earn .35 btc a share in the next 90 days. this pay out is .35 btc now not over 90 days now. I can not stress how important now is when it comes to btc. All those that fail to see this need to realize the payout of 287 usd is .325 btc as I type and then figure what 8 gh earns from dec 15th on it does not earn the .325 btc for a long time if ever. |
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And this next diff increase (thanks KNC! Tongue) makes the price on these even more important Agreed. I am doubtful that single asic usb devices will be profitable for much longer, if they are even now, due to board costs. If the asic power consumption can be kept down perhaps two asics per usb device might be the way to go for a while longer. If the asic's are cheap enough then (DIY) building blades would seem the way to go to get a high enough hash rate. G Profit is a loaded word.  Let's talk in USD to make things easier. And this is said considering Bitmain is probably making mf'ing bank from the S1's. Say the device (usb) costs $30 to manu. Even at 1.6G, it's 5x more powerful than the AM usbs that I bet a lot of folks are still running. For the power usage, easy swap of 5-to-1 between AM sticks and AntSticks (I like that name  ). Back on track - say device costs $30/ea to make, sell at BTC community markup of 100% plus and sell them each for $70, ignoring BTC price since we cannot pay for manufacturing or shipping in BTC. Considering that markup and current AM stick prices you could easily sell these for $150 or so to eBay/Amazon folks. This keeps resellers flowing, is a good price for miners (yeah, it won't even ROI at that price, but will come *close* if BTC price jumps back up), prices them below any of the Bitfury-based miners on the market, etc. The thing with USB miners is you are playing to a lower-spending crowd (except for the reseller folks), so the shit that has been happening with other BF-based products has a lot of people irritated. Price is make-or-break and charging in USD/PayPal is the best possible idea because .1 BTC was $120 last week and $90 right now, so the majority of folks don't want to blow BTC for something that won't bring it back but will spend USD/fiat so they can hold onto their savings/investment in BTC and still get hardware. Too much coffee. Back to work. Looking forward to pricing/availability as always. the key here is spend usd to get asics safely on a site like ebay. many of my ebay buyers want 1 or 2 sticks a payday. they want to earn coins and hold them. they want ebay/paypal protection. they want to think longterm in fiat terms. they think that btc is an item like gold and with luck will go to 10k. so if 2 sticks take 1000 days to earn a coin they are betting btc jumps in price. If you are new to the game buying btc is a hassle buy 2 or 3 sticks on ebay is not a hassle. The longterm future of btc means it goes legit. we need lots of little miners all over the planet with a few sticks a hub or two is enough. i see btc to be able to withstand 2 more halving which is more then 4 years. sticks are very important. millions of little guys are really important. |
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one last try to explain this.
1 share of r 9 = 8gh hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.
I have 157 in my pocket. and 40th Down the road.
I paid only 123 for one share of r9
i have collected .23 in btc and
I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now. if diff stays at 25% we
jump to 883 on the 11th
jump to 1104 on the 22th
jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan
jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan
jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan
jump to 2696 on the 4th feb
jump to 3371 on the 11th feb
jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb. this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff. so once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now. and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid. 130 of the 287
if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash.
BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh so 287 gets you 26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.
So if you really want to hash buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.
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A ) bitmain says he is real
B) paypal would protect your order as these will not be preorders
C) do not make a btc order
d) I reckon I know where he lives that helps |
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here you go each share cost .63 btc they have paid .23 btc so we are at .40 btc loss. each share
they offer 287 that is .312 btc so I get that you do not want to take a btc loss
.400
-.312
.088 btc loss
they will pay us divs on the 15th so that div will be at least .05 a share
so .088 - .05 = .038 btc loss each share maybe less once you figure the div for the 15th of dec. also maybe less once you add in the short fall.
as we are short about .042 btc a share. so in btc you would be a push. or close to a push
but if you hold your share 8gh
not earn .4 btc until late june of 2014 and the diff needs to be under 16%
so as for a roi in btc you just will most likely never ever see that.
A roi in fiat yes btc no. just is not going to happen.
BTW a great roi in fiat truly great return. Trust me This is an amazing return.
Now if you want to argue anything about more fiat we should get 287 plus the dividends up to the 15th and the btc shortfall of .0425-.045 each share fine I am down with that.
But btc roi is not here won't happen you can not get blood from a stone.
to get roi in btc we need to keep the network at a 14% difficulty adjustment for 6 months in a row, this is pretty much impossible.
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A ) bitmain says he is real
B) paypal would protect your order as these will not be preorders
C) do not make a btc order
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reserved
I will pass take me off the list please.
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