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3881  Other / Meta / Re: I want a way to demerit posts. on: May 09, 2020, 02:32:23 PM
That is a feature that isn't available yet (so just an idea), right? I have never seen a brighter Ignore button here so I was wondering if it's a thing or just a suggestion.
There used to be a feature where if a user was ignored by multiple users it would have a shading of yellow/orange depending on the amount of users ignoring them. It was removed.

//EDIT:  Oh, and let's not forget ridicule.  Also an acceptable alternative to "demerits" or a "bullshit button".  Looks like we already have all the tools we need.  Just be sure to make good use of them.  
I've seen public ridicule change the behaviour of certain people over the years. However, that takes a certain type of person to own up to what they're been doing, and have some emotional intelligence to change which unfortunately is quite rare.

There are though cases where the misinformation could lead to consequences, and refuting 2 pages down the thread seems far from optimal to warn the shallow reader. Here the technical dislike feature could play a role, but somehow allowing to jump to the counterarguments.

Obviously any similar feature would need to be very limited in terms of people entitled to use it, and perhaps would require a (controversial) cherry-picked delimited set members per board that could use it, based on technical knowledge on that specific board. This should perhaps have technicality fallacies at heart, and not subject to opinion based scoped which are part of a forum’s freedom of speech.

Hence the reason I'd prefer to actually push for a optional feature of sorting posts by merit, instead of having a demerit option. A well thought out post refuting false claims, and incorrect facts will likely receive a bit of merit for calling out their bullshit. If we had the option to filter threads via merit earned within that thread I think that could be a solution we are looking for without adding in a demerit option. Abuse via this feature would be limited, and wouldn't have the consequences of a demerit feature.

By default, the thread should be displayed as chronological order, perhaps in certain sections such as the technical support section we could opt to sorting by merited posts as the default option, and think in these certain circumstances could be a more beneficial way of going about things. Its sort of like a solved button, but instead of relying on the OP to issue that, its a community wide effort to reward those that are combating misinformation on the forum, as well as providing worthy posts.
3882  Other / Meta / Re: I want a way to demerit posts. on: May 09, 2020, 01:37:14 PM
From a moderation perspective, what are the guidelines when reporting a post for being "technobabble"?  Those posts where it might appear to inexperienced users that the post is perhaps just beyond their understanding because it sounds quite technical, but to experienced users they can see it has absolutely no basis in fact.

Are such posts generally perceived by moderators as merely a difference of opinion?  Or are the posts removed if the reporter is recognised as being astute enough to be able to tell what the facts really are?
From a moderation perspective; we are not going to remove a post simply because its wrong, no matter how wrong a post is, removing it would be censorship, and just because the original thread is wrong, doesn't mean that there isn't going to be quality discussion in the thread. Of course, this will differ slightly from moderator to moderator, as some have more patience, and others simply think misinformation is does with intent, and therefore trolling.

However, moderators will generally remove anything which is complete garbage, but more from a low quality perspective than actually being factually incorrect. Therefore we aren't going to remove a post for spreading misinformation or being factually incorrect. The downside, and the beauty of freedom of speech is that a lot of people will have incomprehensible opinions about whatever subject that's being discussed. Sometimes this is so far gone, that its quite entertaining to think there's people as delusional as this. For example, someone makes a post talking about how Bitcoin is the same as Bitcoin cash, or even more bullshit that Satoshi is theymos' nan. We aren't necessarily going to remove it if they actually talk about why they think that is, I'll admit the theymos' nan scenario would likely be a little trollish, but if they gave some reasons why they think that it may not be removed for trolling.

Instead, what I would advise is to refute every single point of theirs that is incorrect, so your combating the large amount of misinformation being spread. I know most of this community does this, and there's only a small fraction of users that have these outlandish posts. If we were a WIKI dedicateed to Bitcoin, I'd probably expect it to adhere more alongside of being factually correct, but we are a forum, and a forum has varying degrees of factually correct discussions. I think some discussions which are factually incorrect can actually lead to good discussions. I've seen this a numerous amount of times within the technical support, and development sections of the forum.
3883  Other / Meta / Re: I want a way to demerit posts. on: May 09, 2020, 11:45:02 AM
Being able to put a warning at the top of those threads saying "This post is complete nonsense" would not necessarily be a bad thing. Having said that, given how petty some of the endless squabbles on the reputation board are, even among some of the most senior members on the forum, there is absolutely zero chance that such a feature wouldn't be misused.
That's almost censorship via influencing users opinions before they've even read the thread though. I hate the idea of a demerit button also, but I can understand why users would want one. Even if this was implemented perfectly it would cause a lot of hassle, but I don't think  because it would cause a lot of arguments between users that it should be a deterrent of adding something to the forum. Usually, not always you try to do something for the greater benefit of the forum, but how much value would a demerit button provide to the community as a whole? Honestly, we would likely only be providing a little satisfaction towards the person who wants it de-merited rather than providing something of use to the community.  As for the candidates that wouldn't misuse a demerit, I actually personally think a lot of merit sources would be unsuitable for the job, and for those that are suggesting DefaultTrust have a say in it, then I would completely disagree with that. Merit sources have been selected for their ability to reward posts which have been deemed high enough quality by themselves, and their merit behaviour has been deemed at least satisfactory by theymos on review.To expand on the unsuitability of merit sources for demeriting, I actually think there's only a select few on this forum that wouldn't intentionally misuse it, and then might accidentally from time to time.  Its one thing meriting posts that you like, but we are human, and no matter how much there will always be bias among users, and no one is perfect that's for sure. We've seen the arguments between DefaultTrust, and we've seen the disagreements of certain merit source behaviour. The unfortunate truth is demerit could be a powerful tool.

Here's an example of demerit misuse, lets say that demerit was allowed to be used by anyone that has earned x amount of merit. Well, lets say that user wants to be in a signature campaign, and there's a minimum merit requirement, and the campaign is currently full. The malicious user could prawl through the participants, and go through their entire history, and find low quality posts, because lets admit we've all got low quality posts at some point in time. They could demerit these posts, and then lower that users merit enough for them to be potentially removed from the signature campaign. I understand this is a extreme example, and is unlikely to be done without being caught, but this can be applied to almost anything. The thing is, people are competitive by nature, and there's several statistics out there documenting users merit gain, and I can guarantee you competitiveness will influence certain users judgement, and cause them to demerit try to "beat" that users merit score.

These are just examples, and I'm probably missing another 100 things demerit could be used for with malicious intent. Its a can of worms, and if this was to ever be implemented those that can demerit need to be selected carefully, and there should probably only be a handful of them rather than the amount of merit sources we have.

I like merit. You find a post that you subjectively think is good quality, and you reward it which has some benefits possibly to the user that posted it. If you don't like it, you don't merit it, and it has no negative effect on the user that posted. If demerit was a thing, users could subjectively view these statistic threads (as an example) that are posted fairly regularly now as bad posts, and demerit it into oblivion. Although, some of the statistic threads may be a little tedious, they are usually of good quality.

Having said all of this, I do share Gmaxwell's, and others discontent about users getting away with such bad quality posts, and sometimes just purposely spreading misinformation, but I think its better to counter that within a post of your own, than potentially implement a system which could be misused outside of these poor quality posts that have been specifically mentioned.
3884  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Cryptocurrency TV series appearance on: May 08, 2020, 09:45:51 PM
Its an increasing phenomenon among tv shows. Probably the most significant series that Bitcoin was mentioned have been "Mr Robot", and "House Of Cards". Bitcoin has reached most of the worlds radar now, and almost everyone is somewhat aware of it. The unfortunate truth is that not even close to half of the people who have heard about it, understand it. That's always been the biggest obstacle of Bitcoin, making it simplistic, and not confusing to all generations, and all types of people.

Bitcoin has had the news coverage; Good, and bad. It has the infrastructure, dedicated developers, and a fantastic community. However, its still far too complex to understand. Fiat currency is just as complicated, but at a consumer level its rather simple to understand, and that's the difference. Bitcoin has added complexities such as the up, and coming halving event, variable transaction fees, and confirmations from being included in a block. These are alien concepts which will either take a long time to understand, or as a community we need to push to make Bitcoin simpler on a consumer level.

Compared to a few years ago, Bitcoin is much more simpler to use, and there's far more information out there. However, we are still a long way off in terms of fiat understanding.
3885  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wright's Ph.D. flying the coop? Shouldn't have put his eggs in one basket! on: May 08, 2020, 09:37:21 PM
The guy is a real fraud, in a year or two he probably won’t ever be mentioned. He’s so insignificant, I don’t know why people are still interested in him.

Nah, from a spotlight point of view he does everything right. His fuck ups are quite entertaining to supporters of Bitcoin, and his bullshit is quite entertaining to those that support whatever trash hes promoting. I don't think he's a psychopath like pointed out above, but what I do believe he is someone that hates to not be in the spotlight, and him trying to "hide" his plagiarized content has shown a different side to him. When has he ever wanted to not be in the spotlight? When he's been caught doing something which could strip him of his previous "achievements".

Unfortunately, for the others which have grown tired of the man, I think he'll still be around in a year or two, and probably wouldn't have learned from his mistakes, and likely keep on making the same ones as evidenced by the recent news. 
3886  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Dropshipping in the forum? on: May 08, 2020, 09:22:26 PM
Some drop shipping can be okay, and the whole industry as a whole is largely successful. The issue for me is the vast majority of drop shipping shops found in mainstream advertisements are drop shipping low quality manufactured goods, and are selling them for a premium price. However, I'll admit there's some actually quite good quality products out there, and if you can't afford having actual inventory its definitely a good option. Get in good quality products, and look to upscale the price a little bit is fine by me, as I would unlikely be able to get the prices drop shippers do because they order in bulk.

As for the raffle idea, this is organized fairly regular over in the hardware, and collection sections. Personally, I'd prefer to actually hold the item in my hands, and not approach this with a drop shipping approach, but as long as the rules are clear, and the winner is selected fairly, and that can be verified ideally then I don't see too much problems with it.
3887  Other / Meta / Re: Next step to put order in the ANN section - Templates and rules - ANN and Bounty on: May 08, 2020, 09:13:34 PM
I for one don't actually care about the format you post your thread in, and I don't think we should be making certain things rules. However, anyone who wants to make some unofficial guidelines that won't be enforced by moderators is free to do so. In fact, if it catches on it might make the altcoin section a little more tolerable to read.

Personally, I think there could be a number of minor adjustments which could help keep the section clean such as not allowing bounty authentication type posts with the constant social media shares, and being maybe a little stricter on certain things. Although, the bump changes have made at least the announcement threads a little bit better as there has been a large reduction of spam related to bumping, and although it does still exist its usually not seen by the majority of users as it rarely gets within the first few pages.
3888  Other / Meta / Re: Greed or Need? What's changed with bitcointalk ? on: May 08, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
One thing for sure there's always been a certain demographic of the forum that has a vendetta against those that wear signatures under their posts. Now I'm not saying that all signature campaign participants are posting quality content regardless with the fact that they are in a campaign, and I'd expect the opposite is true. Being in a signature campaign likely encourages certain users to contribute more, and make better quality posts, and in my opinion that isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

These signature campaigns are very good money for certain countries, and due to signature campaigns people are able to put food on the tables of their families, and why exactly is that a bad thing. Even for countries such as the UK the money offered on some campaigns can be very enticing, let alone for these poorer regions. I don't see why we should be criticizing anyone that's earning on the forum, as long as they're doing it legitimately, and without abuse then what's exactly the problem?
3889  Other / Meta / Re: Top reporters! on: May 01, 2020, 11:37:03 PM
Reports may be left unhandled recently due to events happening in real life with current events. I know I've been somewhat inactive handling reports (I have a 100+ backlog right now), and other moderators have stepped in, but I'm assuming several other staff users are in similar situations, and have reduced activity on the forum as a result. However, we will get onto them eventually. Reports don't seem to disappear if left for a couple of days, and therefore a unhandled report may be handled several days after the fact. Also, unhandled reports doesn't mean it hasn't been seen that just may be the most appropriate action to take on it.

As for the reporting statistics, it would be nice to see an updated list. I know I've had my ass handed to me in the reporting statistics now, and I estimate there's at least 3 other users with 50k, and above. For the very little I do report these days, they are usually handled within an hour or so.
3890  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: When to report crypto on taxes? on: April 24, 2020, 09:07:25 PM
Yes, it varies wildly depending on your country.

I am in the UK, and I have paid tax on crypto assets. Here, it is treated as capital gains, and crypto-to-crypto trades are taxable, not just crypto-to-fiat (guidance here), and there is a threshold below which you pay nothing. Personally I paid tax for my first year in crypto, after which I was fully aware of the tax implications and have kept my dealings since then well below the threshold.
I think it could be rather beneficial to the community if a in depth guide was made on this specifically for the UK, taxes are typically so confusing, and the wording of these tax laws have always been filled with jargon. I'll have to take a look at what is required. I think with tax being delayed this year, further confusion will be added due to the COVID19 situation.

I've personally been thinking about getting an accountant that deals specifically with crypto cases, as other accountants don't seem to be very clued up on it. Although, I expect this will continue to change, and an increasing amount will become aware.
3891  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Double spend & greed can defeat your life. on: April 24, 2020, 09:03:24 PM
There's a small amount of risk when transacting in Bitcoin if you don't wait for confirmations, but its relatively small compared to other payment methods like Paypal which can be charged back several days after the transaction took place. Bitcoin, despite some of its flaws is one of the most secure ways of transacting money. There's no charging back after confirmations, and while that might be a bad thing from a buyers perspective its good on a sellers as usually sellers aren't offered enough protection on online platforms. Paypal tends to side with the seller on almost all cases which can actually be pretty annoying when its the seller themselves getting scammed many days after the transaction took place.

I always tend to wait for a few confirmations, and most businesses which I have dealt with at least wait for one. Its pretty much standard practice on most transactions, and shouldn't really be ignored.
3892  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in football on: April 24, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I don't support Watford, but I've developed a soft spot ever since they adopted the Bitcoin sponsor a few years ago. I don't know exactly why they chose Bitcoin, and whether maybe their owners are interested in the technology has I haven't read much about it, but I tend to find myself wanting them to do well as a result of that.
3893  Other / Meta / Re: Third party visibility bumping once in 24hrs is allowed for marketplace topics? on: April 24, 2020, 03:00:01 PM
It will likely be treated the same as if the OP were bumping it. Not only that all old bumps should be removed when you post a new bump. Many users have tried to abuse the fact that you can register multiple accounts, and bump up their thread from different usernames. These are almost always deleted when found.

Bumps are treated differently in some sections due to the constant abuse that these sections were subjected too, and it was nearly impossible, as well as being extremely inefficient to moderate it within these sections. However, if a user is still bumping, and not deleting old bumps etc, it will still be removed. Its just on these sections it has less exposure and therefore not as many users are getting annoyed by this.
3894  Other / Meta / Re: Can we trust user that spread false and dangerous news on COVID19? on: April 23, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
This isn't exclusive to the forum, and this applies to some "well known" news sources as well, yet people will, and do trust whatever they read from a source which is perceived at an authority figure. I hate to say it, and I hate that this is true, but if a newbie spread false information about anything you'd be far more inclined to question it, but if it was a user like theymos as an example, you'd be far more likely to believe it without further investigation. Although, this is a bad thing as theymos, and any other authority figure within any community can be just as wrong as anybody else, but its the way most humans work. For example, notoriously shit news sources like the daily mail & s*n are terrible in almost every single way, yet there are people out there that trust these sources.

Its the same here. Some people will trust what people say, and some won't. We aren't going to start censoring people for having their own views, and opinions about something. Can you trust them? Probably not, although even if it was from a perceived trustworthy user of the forum, just because you trust them with exchanging money does not mean you can trust their opinions, and views.

The great thing about lack of censorship is you can call them out for their bullshit without any issues from a moderation point of view, and trust point of view.
3895  Other / Meta / Re: What do you think? Delete or Not? on: April 23, 2020, 01:49:09 AM
As for the English, its up to the discretion of the local moderator, and sometimes the local communities view if English should be allowed on the local section. Generally, most posts in a local section are made in the associated local language. I'm a fan of allowing local communities to establish their own culture within their local section, and to moderate according to that rather than follow the rules strictly. Of course, this is only taken into consideration with minor rules such as English only, or local language only, and any plagiarism or more severe rules broken would be dealt with accordingly.

As for sharing URLS, this might be considered advertising, and advertising without offering something substantial quality wise within the post is considered against the rules. If you have any issues, you can always contact the local moderator, and see if they get back to you.

3896  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcointalk Web Developers Union on: April 23, 2020, 01:45:37 AM
When I was just starting our on all my services I offer a free trial and very low rate this is to earn my portfolio and testimonials from my first set of clients, you can just charge an amount that is equal to top-notch developers are charging without proving what you are capable of doing, you must work your way up and you can do this by offering trials and low rate, but I'm not against your goal to set up a union, but this is how this industry works.
A fantastic way of developing your portfolio is by offering your services as a donation to a charity. Local charities are usually quite poor in the web development aspect, and don't have the most appealing websites to potential donators. By doing work for a charity free of charge it will look very good on your CV, as well as help a usually decent cause. Most charities are more than willing to get free labour done for them too. Plus, you have the added benefit of that a charity being a authority figure in the community, and therefore their website is likely already being seen by a lot of people, and you could get ongoing feedback from the charity on what their customers think, as well as if they have had a increase in donations etc.
3897  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Where do the VCCs (virtual credit cards) come from? on: April 23, 2020, 01:41:15 AM
I used to think most of these were legit services, and they were simply resellers, and rewards which they have earned through their spending activities  but it seems that there's many that are obtaining them illegitimately which makes the process of buying them a little difficult without knowing that the person is operating legally. Usually, when they are selling a high amount, you can make the assumption that they're a reseller, and a one off may be a reward they have earned. However, you can't quite be sure, unless you know that the person is telling the truth.

There are definitely legit services out there which are offering virtual credit cards, but I'd say equally so there was ones which have been illegally obtained.
3898  Other / Meta / Re: Promotion? on: April 20, 2020, 01:40:17 PM
Promotion = Advertisement

Therefore, you would have to adhere to the following rule:

Advertisements (including signatures within the post area) in posts aren't allowed unless the post is in a thread you started and is really substantial and useful

Thus, you will only be allowed to advertise your discord server if it was of substantial quality. If its simply "come join my discord server to talk about crypto" then that would likely be removed. Its at the discretion of the mod handling the report or visiting the thread, but most posts that are posted simply to advertise a service are removed, unless it provides value to the forum or Bitcoin. For example, there's many service announcements, and there is even a dedicated section for it, but these are usually substantial services that either provide value to the forum or Bitcoin itself. These threads are usually quite substantial too, and not simple "Hey this is my telegram group, come here to exchange Bitcoin".

Although, you could promote any of your services, including your Discord server through your signature. This is usually the biggest incentive for users ranking up.
3899  Other / Meta / Re: What is exactly the functionality of "Report to moderator"? on: April 19, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Indeed, as Lauda said, I didn't know that duplicate reports are marked as bad, nor I understand why. For example, if I report a post and then another user reports it as well, the report of second user is bad Huh
No. Only if you report the same exact post  twice will it be marked bad. You can report multiple posts or all of a users posts if they are breaking the rules, but try not to make duplicate reports. The reason duplicate reports are marked bad is because it would be easier for users to pad their report counts, as well as being extra workload of staff members.

As for further explanation of why they were not all marked good, and assuming that they were not marked bad it would be best to contact the likely moderator that took action. Although, they are not required to answer.
3900  Other / Meta / Re: What is exactly the functionality of "Report to moderator"? on: April 19, 2020, 12:37:42 PM
Yeah it works that way i guess. I did report many posts regarding their bumping and most of them mods have already locked up. Since recently i am constantly working on locking of threads which are sensibly too old or way too bumped for further use on this forum.

However, I have gotten some threads reported badly since they are still not locked up and also my accuracy of reporting dropped a little. May be this has got to do with mod's and their way of thinking regarding the reports we make.


Interpretation of the moderator is always going to be a factor. I'm not the moderator who handled your reports, but I'll give you an example to where I differ from a few moderators, and globals; I think that most threads shouldn't be locked, and rather be removed completely if they are causing spam. If a thread has particular importance I believe simply cleaning up the thread even if it creates higher workload to  be the better choice.

You don't have to be perfect to reach 100%. I have 37 bad reports
I have 265 bad reports, and they don't bother me at all, and for those of you that care my percentage is at 100% for the reasons mentioned above. Most users will care more about the percentage than actually reporting which is a small issue. It would be interesting whether removing that percentage would be of benefit. Then, there's the opposite end of the scales where users won't know which reports were marked  bad or won't learn from their mistakes.
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