Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[zubelutte]

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder 

[Puppet]

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder  

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:

When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

...

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.

....

In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:

a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

[markn]

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder  

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:

When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

...

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.

....

In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:

a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Thank you very much for sharing these precious and hard earned information with us!

[becoin]

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:

Well, as you can see, BFL crooks have broken the law in every possible way!

[Jawi]

I was thinking of getting one but I heard about the really terrible delivery time, but now with the more recent USB Asic sticks that now have a reasonable performance, I think ill pass BFL and go for a few of the sticks

[shogunmark]

I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

[shmoula]

I did my preorder in march and my Jalapenos are already at my desk and mining B-)

[creativex]

What do you mean "already"? You paid for a product in March and received it in September and you're pleased with that service?

[Gyrsur]

I did my preorder in march and my Jalapenos are already at my desk and mining B-)

not very likely according the backlog:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.

[Fiyasko]

Love it how suddenly their are random newbies with <10 activity saying "My bfl unit is doing great!"
They look like socks for crying out loud, Most people that ordered a jally way the Frig back then, Would USUALLY have an account on this forum.
Odds are thats Where they found out about BFL, These forums.
Am I supposed to believe that people Lurked without an account for the entire time their bfl miner Constantly kept getting delays (average wait time about 8 months?) and only bothered to make a forum account After they recieved the unit, for the seemingly sole purpose of that account being to speak positivly about BFL?

[Inaba]

I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.

Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

[Trillium]

Josh stokes the fire he's standing on. Classic. Thread re-invigorated. 

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Except... that is a complete lie.

What greater honor can there be on these forums than to be accused of lying by the most notorious liar in the BTC uniiverse.

The only words out of your mouth in the last two years that have not been a lie, dumbass, are the words, "I think all BFL customers are assholes", which you haved posted many times, in many forms.

Now I know you will respond to this post, because the only posts you respond to are the ones that threaten the flow of newbies/derps into the pit that is a BFL purchase.

If I had posted a question to you about delivery, or refund, all I would get is a loud silence.

COO of a thieving clusterfuck - wear that title with honor on your way to prison or a civil forfeiture.

[Puppet]

Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

So this spreading of the difficulty increase, is a customer service? One you intend to repeat for Monarch customers?

BTW, its nonsense. Yes its true that had you shipped all your preorders as promised, difficulty would have been a lot higher back then. But not as high as it is now, because avalon, asicminer, bitfury and others wouldnt have shipped as much, nor even sold as much. More importantly, more recent customers would have had more accurate picture of the profitability of their miners. And that would have forced lower prices, but surely thats got nothing to do with world record breaking delays, right?

[ThomasDB]

I got a refund a few weeks ago, so lucky..

[donch]

Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

Josh, why do you keep peddling this line? You and BFL have stated two different estimates of your contribution to the network hashrate:

BFL ShoutBox extract:

M31 - Josh - you must have a pretty good idea of what % of the network is BFL gear. maybe you've said so here and i missed. any idea?
BFL_Josh - It's somewhere between 30 and 45% I think at the moment, depends on what you consider the current network hashrate. That's just an estimate on my part of course.

And yet their press release says:

We've learned a great deal with our first ASIC. After an initial delay, that processor has been shipping in volume for the past few months and is now powering the majority of the Bitcoin network

So, you "estimate" between 35% and over 50%. For the sake of argument lets go with a conservative 40%. That leaves 60% of hashrate which exists that has come online between the start of the blockchain and the time of your statement. Bitfury, GHash, AsicMiner, Avalon and perhaps unknown mining consortiums have all brought ASIC-grade mining online since October 2012 (your original delivery date). Therefore if you had delivered according to your original plans, there would be 60% of potential future hashrate that you could have let your customers beat to the market. This would have equalled a more than doubling of income for most of your customers.

If you don't understand this, you "don't understand difficulty". Grow up and answer people's questions with numbers and facts, not contradictions.

P.S. Stop trying to send me the Single that I cancelled via Paypal. I'm going to document the whole process in lajz99's refund thread, and you and BFL are going to come out of it looking very bad...

[shogunmark]

Love it how suddenly their are random newbies with <10 activity saying "My bfl unit is doing great!"
They look like socks for crying out loud, Most people that ordered a jally way the Frig back then, Would USUALLY have an account on this forum.
Odds are thats Where they found out about BFL, These forums.
Am I supposed to believe that people Lurked without an account for the entire time their bfl miner Constantly kept getting delays (average wait time about 8 months?) and only bothered to make a forum account After they recieved the unit, for the seemingly sole purpose of that account being to speak positivly about BFL?

I was a long time lurker, i never had a need to sign up for an account here, i had all the information i already needed to start mining. I only joined yesterday because i wanted to reply to a particular thread. However before i could reply to that thread i needed an account with some activity. This particular board is the only place a "newb" can post.

My sole purpose was not to praise BFL it was to give feedback on my BFL experience.

I did not mine before the BFL because i did not have the money to spend on a high end GPU, the BFL was my gateway. i previously was only buying BTC through the various exchanges.

And if you still dont believe my story, then look me up. I cant post links yet since im a newb, but search Google+ for Mark Swan (not my real name) but go back a few weeks ago and you can see my jalapeno next to my RasPi. if that isnt good enough for credibility, then search my username on XDA forums.

[shogunmark]

I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.

Besides your numbers being off, this is something i was already aware of, and since i am not a harcdcore miner, i didnt really care. I KNEW BFL had issues, but i ordered anyway. I KNEW there shipment delays, but i ordered anyway. getting the product i paid for makes me happy regardless. I really have nothing to be pissed about.

[honky1492]

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

It seems you made big favour to your custommers by not shipping back in November 
Good luck man