Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[darkmule]

I doubt they will be able to do R&D on preorder money again. 

Josh swears they did not use preorder money for R&D.

You could have stopped there.   

[SolStis]

I was really keep to invest in one of their machines but wont be looking to pursue that avenue any more!

[Frizz23]

I was really keep to invest in one of their machines but wont be looking to pursue that avenue any more!

You can vote here: [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?

[randomnumber]

A very good scam, though. Gain some credibility and use that to get money until people realize what you're really made out of. At that point, you might have a product working and gain more trust. Run on that for a little more and keep going.

[BTC_USER_014]

A very good scam, though. Gain some credibility and use that to get money until people realize what you're really made out of. At that point, you might have a product working and gain more trust. Run on that for a little more and keep going.

That box showed at Bitcoin Convention can be fake, very easy to do this. 

[operador]

I gave in and ordered a jalapeno on April 30th through paypal, prob will never see it who knows. but what I do know is that 44 days after then order if it is not shipped I will open a dispute through paypal. Now regardless of what BFL states when you order. Paypal seller terms clearly state that a seller has 20 days from accepting preorder money to come forth with goods to be shipped. I do not understand how they are able to provide payment through paypal when paypal also clearly states in its eula that the sales of btc or btc related harware are prohibited.
SO they violate 2 of paypals regulations. So I feel I am covered if I choose to ask for a refund within 45 days of my purchase. Now I know what some will say, that I need patience that i will be far down in the queue ect ect, blah blah. I could care less. 45 days is all I am going to gamble, if I  get a refund in 45 days and in 60 they ship then so be loss is mine, but given their track record the odds are in my favor.

Man, of course it will not be shipped 45 days after order. Did you know that they have already a +10 months delay? You are at the very end of the queue, so do not expect your Jalapeño to be shipped before 2014 (and no, I'm not joking, these are facts based on past history and actual preorder backlog).

Man in 2014 5GH/s will give you nothing and BFL knows it, that makes it a scam IMHO.

[jml]

I was really keep to invest in one of their machines but wont be looking to pursue that avenue any more!

You can vote here: [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?

I can't see radio buttons to select to vote, any reason why?

[canth]

I gave in and ordered a jalapeno on April 30th through paypal, prob will never see it who knows. but what I do know is that 44 days after then order if it is not shipped I will open a dispute through paypal. Now regardless of what BFL states when you order. Paypal seller terms clearly state that a seller has 20 days from accepting preorder money to come forth with goods to be shipped. I do not understand how they are able to provide payment through paypal when paypal also clearly states in its eula that the sales of btc or btc related harware are prohibited.
SO they violate 2 of paypals regulations. So I feel I am covered if I choose to ask for a refund within 45 days of my purchase. Now I know what some will say, that I need patience that i will be far down in the queue ect ect, blah blah. I could care less. 45 days is all I am going to gamble, if I  get a refund in 45 days and in 60 they ship then so be loss is mine, but given their track record the odds are in my favor.

Man, of course it will not be shipped 45 days after order. Did you know that they have already a +10 months delay? You are at the very end of the queue, so do not expect your Jalapeño to be shipped before 2014 (and no, I'm not joking, these are facts based on past history and actual preorder backlog).

Man in 2014 5GH/s will give you nothing and BFL knows it, that makes it a scam IMHO.

1) Having legitimate production delays doesn't necessarily make it a scam. The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months - would you have called Apple a scammer company back in 1984?

2) Even if they think that it will take until 2014 to deliver 5GH/s, what choice does BFL have besides putting their heads down and getting them into production? As much as it sucks, if they gave up now and canceled orders there probably wouldn't be enough funds to return all the customer funds.

3) What other ASIC companies can you purchase a production from today? I'm not saying the BFL doesn't have worthy competitors, but none of them are delivering product you can purchase right now.

[Bitoy]

Is there any alternative ASIC rigs out there?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204030.0

+1

I hope this is still in stock.

[charleshoskinson]

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

Apple didn't accept millions of dollars in preorders. Make claims such as 1 watt per GH and be an order of magnitude out of spec. Tell us every month for month after month that the mac was shipping in just a few weeks. And then accepted bitcoin preorders costing everyone thousands of dollar. No Apple didn't do any of that.

[darkmule]

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

Apple didn't accept millions of dollars in preorders. Make claims such as 1 watt per GH and be an order of magnitude out of spec. Tell us every month for month after month that the mac was shipping in just a few weeks. And then accepted bitcoin preorders costing everyone thousands of dollar. No Apple didn't do any of that.

Indeed.  This kind of retarded claim is made in the very, very vain hopes that nobody is on this forum who remembers Apple's early delays on the Macintosh. 

Only a fucking retard would believe that BFL's lies, scams, and swindles are even remotely related to Apple's failure to deliver the original Macintosh on time.  Note:  they did not collect millions in pre-order money in a desperate attempt to use it for R&D to develop something that didn't exist when they said they were about to deliver.

[buckus69]

I would say that $5000 - $6000 is kind of overpriced for 10 Gh/S, but apparently this would earn your money back in 3 months at the current difficulty.  And, of course, they're shipping, which is key.

Is there any alternative ASIC rigs out there?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204030.0

+1

I hope this is still in stock.

[Frizz23]

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

I am sure there are many epic fails in the history of mankind, but how does another fail make the BFL fail any better?

[buckus69]

Sometimes you gotta throw your money at a lot of stuff to make something stick (and work).  The government routinely does this, and does it even more during times of war.  Music labels do this, as do sports agents, etc.

The truth is that there is no real guarantee that anything you throw your money at will work.  If you're evaluating BFL as a business, as a VC, it's probably not going to look very good.  But it could, so you take a chance.

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

I am sure there are many epic fails in the history of mankind, but how does another fail make the BFL fail any better?

[creativex]

Sometimes you gotta throw your money at a lot of stuff to make something stick (and work).  The government routinely does this, and does it even more during times of war.  Music labels do this, as do sports agents, etc.

The truth is that there is no real guarantee that anything you throw your money at will work.  If you're evaluating BFL as a business, as a VC, it's probably not going to look very good.  But it could, so you take a chance.

The government does this because it's not their money and they can always steal more from people that work for a living. Doing business with a company that lies constantly about everything(BFL) is a bad idea and encourages more of the same.

[Schrankwand]

Sometimes you gotta throw your money at a lot of stuff to make something stick (and work).  The government routinely does this, and does it even more during times of war.  Music labels do this, as do sports agents, etc.

The truth is that there is no real guarantee that anything you throw your money at will work.  If you're evaluating BFL as a business, as a VC, it's probably not going to look very good.  But it could, so you take a chance.

The government does this because it's not their money and they can always steal more from people that work for a living. Doing business with a company that lies constantly about everything(BFL) is a bad idea and encourages more of the same.

If a VC was in there and would see Josh's behaviour on the forums, he'd be out. Very fast. Like within  one minute.

VCs are really the last people you want to piss off.

[canth]

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

I am sure there are many epic fails in the history of mankind, but how does another fail make the BFL fail any better?

It certainly doesn't make it any better - I'd just say that being unable to deliver on expectations doesn't necessarily make BFL a scam. It sure lowers the value of their reputation and makes us all question their competency, but I'm not ready to pull out the scammer label.

[canth]

The first Macintosh computer was delayed by 18 months

Apple didn't accept millions of dollars in preorders. Make claims such as 1 watt per GH and be an order of magnitude out of spec. Tell us every month for month after month that the mac was shipping in just a few weeks. And then accepted bitcoin preorders costing everyone thousands of dollar. No Apple didn't do any of that.

BFL will end up shipping eventually OR they'll go bust. Either way, I bet some former BFL employee will eventually tell us the real inside story and we'll get a chance to see if it was lies or just a mismanaged firm/business plan.

[JohnDow1968]

I'm glad they run the show without a VC.
Yes, the OP has valid points, but do you homework and make up your own mind.

[creativex]

I'm glad they run the show without a VC.
Yes, the OP has valid points, but do you homework and make up your own mind.

Actually BFL reps have stated on many occasions that product development was funded by VC and that pre-order funds were not used for that purpose. I think you'd have to be pretty special to believe that a legit VC firm would watch BFL's antics over the course of the last year+ and not pull out, but that's what we've been told.