I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.

[salstimda]

Well of course I am part of the elite, I always been. What is new is that everyone can be part of it. Bitcoin is open to everyone.
It doesn't matter your background and education. Anyone can learn. Information is free and transparent.
It doesn't matter how much you invest in, everyone can invest and make a profit.

"Bitcoin is open to everyone"
Nope, its not. Well maybe for a few entitled kids who got everything from their parents it is. But for the majority of the world's population it isn't. The majority of the world population doesn't have a computer, even less people have internet, and most people don't have any money to buy bitcoins with, because they use all their money for food and still they starve.
I always get a little angry, if I see entitled kids from rich parents claiming everything is for free. The world doesn't work like that. Try to look beyond the little box you live in, pal.

I think everyone that lives in a developed country with access to the internet is part of an "elite" crowd already in a way.  We can get philosophical about this.  But I think the main point is that anyone that can afford to buy a few lattes at their local Starbucks can log into free internet there and buy Bitcoin.  It is fairly accessible to anyone, regardless of how entitled the person is.  The question of course is how much can they buy?  They should be able to buy at least $5 worth if they just forgo one Frappuccino.  But I do agree the the open to "everyone" was exaggerated when thinking in global terms.  

omg...you just said "everyone that lives in a developed country" and not 3 sentences later you claim its "fairly accessible to anyone". so the 5 billion people who aren't in this special group can be just swept under the rug, only really the 2 billion people in developed countries count? this is really disgusting...how can someone be so entitled...

The sad truth is that "people from 3rd countries" are not "people".
I am not saying that they aren't human but their way of living is so different that we cannot include them in the term "people".
We have no idea of how they think, what do they want, how do they live.
I think that as Occidental citizen, we devote our life to ignore and exclude the 3rd world.
You may find few people that actually care about the excluded but are they actually doing anything to change the situation ?
How can you help people that you cannot reach and understand ?

The second sad truth is that most people from the 3rd world want to be obese-selfish-consumerist.
They would probably do the same : exclude and ignore others.

It doesn't matter where you are born. You are a human, you are the scum of this world.
No human is better than an other.

scum or not scum, a tiny minority is not "almost everyone". Fullstop.

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[BitChick]

Well of course I am part of the elite, I always been. What is new is that everyone can be part of it. Bitcoin is open to everyone.
It doesn't matter your background and education. Anyone can learn. Information is free and transparent.
It doesn't matter how much you invest in, everyone can invest and make a profit.

"Bitcoin is open to everyone"

Nope, its not. Well maybe for a few entitled kids who got everything from their parents it is. But for the majority of the world's population it isn't. The majority of the world population doesn't have a computer, even less people have internet, and most people don't have any money to buy bitcoins with, because they use all their money for food and still they starve.

I always get a little angry, if I see entitled kids from rich parents claiming everything is for free. The world doesn't work like that. Try to look beyond the little box you live in, pal.

I think everyone that lives in a developed country with access to the internet is part of an "elite" crowd already in a way.  We can get philosophical about this.  But I think the main point is that anyone that can afford to buy a few lattes at their local Starbucks can log into free internet there and buy Bitcoin.  It is fairly accessible to anyone IN A DEVELOPED COUNTRY, regardless of how entitled the person is.  The question of course is how much can they buy?  They should be able to buy at least $5 worth if they just forgo one Frappuccino.  But I do agree the the open to "everyone" was exaggerated when thinking in global terms.  

omg...you just said "everyone that lives in a developed country" and not 3 sentences later you claim its "fairly accessible to anyone". so the 5 billion people who aren't in this special group can be just swept under the rug, only really the 2 billion people in developed countries count? this is really disgusting...how can someone be so entitled...

OK.  I fixed it.  I would have thought you could get my point with the context.

Notice my last line "open to "everyone" was exaggerated when thinking in global terms."

Wow.  Just wow.

its also wrong if you just take the developed world. the whole idea of "its open to everyone" is completely ridiculous and stupid. and simply wrong.

Homeless people on "skid row" in Los Angeles have cell phones so I am not so sure that there is no way they could get their hands on $1 worth of BTC.  

But if it makes you feel better, insert "almost everyone" instead of "everyone" if you want to be precise.

again, how on earth is "a tiny minority" in your brain "almost everyone"? im asking you for the fifth time now i think

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

[cdooer]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

[salstimda]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

[BitChick]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Trolls need food before they can afford BTC. 

Oh.  That wasn't serious.

Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.  He is quite passionate about it and it is one the main reasons he is excited about BTC.  Google him.  I can't do his explanations justice.

[salstimda]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Trolls need food before they can afford BTC. 

Oh.  That wasn't serious.

Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.  He is quite passionate about it and it is one the main reasons he is excited about BTC.  Google him.  I can't do his explanations justice.

I know this guy, I have watched a few youtube videos of him already and read an article or two, and he seems like a very smart guy to me, i wouldn't argue against that. But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

[BitChick]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Trolls need food before they can afford BTC. 

Oh.  That wasn't serious.

Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.  He is quite passionate about it and it is one the main reasons he is excited about BTC.  Google him.  I can't do his explanations justice.

I know this guy, I have watched a few youtube videos of him already and read an article or two, and he seems like a very smart guy to me, i wouldn't argue against that. But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

It is hard to solve the banking problems of the 3rd world in a sentence or two.  Sorry about that.   Hence why I am trying to bow out gracefully, knowing the subject matter is beyond me. 

[salstimda]

To be specific, I was writing that "almost everyone" in America, or any developed country has access to Bitcoin. I understand that with a global mindset that Bitcoin is NOT accessible to most of the world easily.  However, that could and will hopefully change at some point.  Bitcoin could be helpful for places where banking is not easily accessible for them.  Hopefully, at some point, all that will be needed is cell phones.

Probably time to stop feeding the troll, otherwise you'll be here all day with his "well what about this, and what about that" bullshit.

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Trolls need food before they can afford BTC. 

Oh.  That wasn't serious.

Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.  He is quite passionate about it and it is one the main reasons he is excited about BTC.  Google him.  I can't do his explanations justice.

I know this guy, I have watched a few youtube videos of him already and read an article or two, and he seems like a very smart guy to me, i wouldn't argue against that. But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

It is hard to solve the banking problems of the 3rd world in a sentence or two.  Sorry about that.   Hence why I am trying to bow out gracefully, knowing the subject matter is beyond me. 

I remember a few arguments he made alongside "people save fees if they send money back home to their families" and something like people could use cellphones and sms for obtaining bitcoins and so on, but this all just affects people who already are doing well enough to afford a cellphone and its fees, and of course all food and shelter, or they probably wouldn't get a cellphone. So it's not really about the majority of people who are starving. that was my point - maybe in some circumstances it would help some people, but i don't really see any great solutions of big problems there...but of course i might have missed something. im far from beeing an expert on this topic aswell.

[kireinaha]

Are you telling me that those starving people in Africa can't put away $10 a month for bitcoin? they have access to internet cafes and can easily open an account on some kind of future exchange. in a few hears, there will probably be cards or paper wallets issued with the private keys, that can then be redeemed when necessary. maybe that's the reason why so many in the third world are poor and need access to banking services -- to promote savings and investment habits.

i think what we need are PR people in places like africa that can visit communities and teach the locals about the benefits of bitcoin and how it can help them. for just $10 a month, they can watch their investment grow; this can save them from poverty.

[Arriemoller]

The world is in a much better state than you seem to think, and there is only a handful of countries that can still be called third world countries today.
Please watch these two videos of professor Rosling from TED.
(They are not dull)
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html
http://www.gapminder.org/videos/hans-rosling-ted-talk-2007-seemingly-impossible-is-possible/

[BitChick]

Are you telling me that those starving people in Africa can't put away $10 a month for bitcoin? they have access to internet cafes and can easily open an account on some kind of future exchange. in a few hears, there will probably be cards or paper wallets issued with the private keys, that can then be redeemed when necessary. maybe that's the reason why so many in the third world are poor and need access to banking services -- to promote savings and investment habits.

i think what we need are PR people in places like africa that can visit communities and teach the locals about the benefits of bitcoin and how it can help them. for just $10 a month, they can watch their investment grow; this can save them from poverty.

$10 USD might be a stretch for some people to invest long term if they are just fighting to survive.  However, let's say that they did spend at least $10 USD a month on basic necessities and keeping that $10 in a BTC wallet even if they spent it during the month would allow this small amount of money to grow (hopefully) then maybe they would be better off for it?  Especially in countries where there is tremendous inflation occurring.  Just thinking here.

[salstimda]

The world is in a much better state than you seem to think, and there is only a handful of countries that can still be called third world countries today.
Please watch these two videos of professor Rosling from TED.
(They are not dull)
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html
http://www.gapminder.org/videos/hans-rosling-ted-talk-2007-seemingly-impossible-is-possible/

have seen them years ago. i have actually read many books about the topic of globalisation and developing nations. the fact that child mortality is falling in relative numbers only barely hides the fact that the actual numbers of people starving and beeing poor has actually risen in the last decades. of course there is progress. the world isn't black and white, i can't repeat often enough.

I can only say, you shouldn't get your information about complex issues solely from very short youtube videos.

[Arriemoller]

The videos doesn't really address the issues, they only convey current statistics in a very user friendly way. And it isn't true that more people are starving today. It's the very opposite.

[salstimda]

The videos doesn't really address the issues, they only convey current statistics in a very user friendly way. And it isn't true that more people are starving today. It's the very opposite.

yes they are very nice for people who are very new into this topic.

About the starving people...there are different definitions and calculations, and i know of estimates that claim there are fewer starving people now, and i know of estimates that claim there are more starving people now (both from the FAO, the most reliable source on this topic). We don't really know for sure. but the fact that there are still almost a billion people starving altough the world community commited itself to reduce this to at least 500 million by 2015 is really horrible. no matter how you put it.

[Arriemoller]

Yes, I agree that too many people are still starving, but it is moving in the right direction, and I think starvation well be gone in my lifetime.
Purely man made starvation, like in war torn areas for example, excluded.

[kireinaha]

Yes, I agree that too many people are still starving, but it is moving in the right direction, and I think starvation well be gone in my lifetime.
Purely man made starvation, like in war torn areas for example, excluded.

pretty much every part of the world where people are starving suffers from war or poor central management (usually both), at least that i can think of. so that's quite an exclusion.

[Arriemoller]

Yes it is, but there is really nothing you can do about that, I can't stop a war or overthrow a government.
When the war stops or the government stops the mismanagement these countries will get on their feet more or less automatically.

[BittBurger]

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.

He seems like a very smart guy to me, But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

I remember a few arguments he made alongside "people save fees if they send money back home to their families" and something like people could use cellphones and sms for obtaining bitcoins and so on, but this all just affects people who already are doing well enough to afford a cellphone and its fees, and of course all food and shelter, or they probably wouldn't get a cellphone. So it's not really about the majority of people who are starving. that was my point - maybe in some circumstances it would help some people, but i don't really see any great solutions of big problems there...but of course i might have missed something. im far from beeing an expert on this topic aswell.

The reason people refer to you as a troll is that you find exceptions with everything, and keep the argument going. There is no response that will ever make you say "Oh.  Yeah.  Good point." and get up from your computer and walk away.  Certain people just morph the argument into 900 other topics, as you negate each of their misconceptions.  Thats when people like BitChick "bow out".  It becomes a fruitless endeavour.  You should recognize this about yourself maybe, and adjust how you debate/disagree with things.

To answer your question, Andreas has pointed out that even the poorest people in Africa with no running water, have satellite dishes on their mud huts.  Apparently they save forever to buy one, which powers their cell phone and updates it.  And no.  Cell service is not $99 a month like it is here in the USA.  :-/  Their cell phone enables them to transact money and carry out communication with the rest of their world.  Its that important.  These same cell phones which are currently using a text service to send and receive funds, can be used with Bitcoin.  

There are 2 companies in africa right now working to build Bitcoin texting services.  Your question was, why is this relevant to poor people, to have banking opportunities?  As per Andreas, it opens up a whole new world of investing, saving, appreciation in value, transferring of funds, and participation on the world stage that they never had before.  Sure, some will do nothing with that.  Others who are poor but still brilliant, will see the immense opportunities in having access to these things, and will literally build businesses and transform their lives.  And yes, the remittances market is a hundreds-million dollar market that Bitcoin will assuredly take over.  Western union charges the poorest people in the poorest countries the highest fees to send money home to family.  $40 on a $100 transfer sometimes.  Having that $40 available to the family instead, times millions of families, can singlehandedly pump hundreds of millions of dollars back to the poorest people on the planet.  The list goes on and on.  

I would advise you to stop being lazy about your education on Bitcoin, and spend the next week listening to *every* speech from Andreas Antonopoulos on youtube.  Specifically the Joe Rogan one, which is 3 hours long.  If you don't have the energy or interest, then be aware that you are missing about 95% of the pertinent information on the topic you're debating.  

-B-

[MoonShadow]

Yes it is, but there is really nothing you can do about that, I can't stop a war or overthrow a government.
When the war stops or the government stops the mismanagement these countries will get on their feet more or less automatically.

Automaticly, but not immediately.

[Biomech]

wrong, you are not the new elite, you are the old elite. noone who is poor could have ever afforded to mine or buy bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency. its a wealthy-people-thing only.

I am essentially destitute. I mine. I am supplementing my income with my miner.

Try again. Try harder.