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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1222695 times)
Odrak
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March 17, 2017, 12:56:43 PM
 #5941

Dear reader,

An IOTA-developer (Come-from-Beyond) is in this Byteball thread spreading FUD and misinformation. Petty. Disregard posts.

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Stating something as an overkill can be interpreted as a subjective opinion. Being more constructive in your comments might lead people to believe differently in your intentions
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Come-from-Beyond
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March 17, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
 #5942

Stating something as an overkill can be interpreted as a subjective opinion. Being more constructive in your comments might lead people to believe differently in your intentions

Valid point.

I won't explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor just read the linked article.

Regarding our case, in cryptography all security assumptions are reduced to the minimal set of assumptions. The foundation of Byteball security is based on assumption that majority of the witnesses can be trusted. An obvious way to implement an oracle in such system is to require majority of witnesses to sign an oracle's statement. The link to the BTC-oracle tells that cryptographic proofs based on Merkle tree are used. This is overengineering, because if the quorum of witnesses states that a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed then we don't need to do Simple Payment Verification (which utilizes Merkle tree approach).

Even more, if we decide to create an oracle for a PoS-based coin then we can't use Merkle trees, we need to verify the complete history of payments. In other words PoS coins cannot use SPV described in Satoshi's paper. So, instead of using Merkle trees for PoW coins and something else for PoS coins we can just combine everything if we rely on the witnesses.

I hope I explained why I called BTC-oracle "an overkill". I tried to be as ELI5 as possible.
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March 17, 2017, 01:15:53 PM
 #5943

Providing BTC data and other data which is not related to DAG security is not a witness job, therefore BTC oracle is needed if we want to have a reliable BTC bridge. We may need thousands of different data feeds from different sources for different purposes in the future, we can't obligate twelve witnesses to provide all of them.




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March 17, 2017, 01:23:34 PM
 #5944

Providing BTC data and other data which is not related to DAG security is not a witness job, therefore BTC oracle is needed if we want to have a reliable BTC bridge. We may need thousands of different data sources for different purposes in the future, we can't obligate twelve witnesses to provide all of them.

Ok. There are thousands ways from A to B. Ping me when you'll decide to add an oracle for a PoS-coin, please.
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March 17, 2017, 01:26:04 PM
 #5945

Providing BTC data and other data which is not related to DAG security is not a witness job, therefore BTC oracle is needed if we want to have a reliable BTC bridge. We may need thousands of different data sources for different purposes in the future, we can't obligate twelve witnesses to provide all of them.

Ok. There are thousands ways from A to B. Ping me when you'll decide to add an oracle for a PoS-coin, please.

You address the wrong party here. I am not going to do nothing with no POS coins.

.
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March 17, 2017, 01:29:34 PM
 #5946

You address the wrong party here. I am not going to do nothing with no POS coins.

Got it, I wrongly assumed you were the creator of that BTC-oracle.
SatoNatomato
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March 17, 2017, 01:30:29 PM
 #5947

Iota investors should see this thread and the behavior of lead IOTA dev. Can someone link it in their censored thread? Thanks.

Can not be confidence inspiring, to see such lies as "Byteball blockchain", and the rest of horse-shit.

Can only mean 1 thing. IOTA sucks, and IOTA-dev is afraid of Byteball, sees it as worthywhile competition that he has to spend time in this thread calling Byteball a blockchain, Byteball features an overkill and other nonsense.

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March 17, 2017, 01:34:33 PM
 #5948

Can only mean 1 thing. IOTA sucks, and IOTA-dev is afraid of Byteball, sees it as worthywhile competition that he has to spend time in this thread calling Byteball a blockchain, Byteball features an overkill and other nonsense.

Or it means that IOTA-dev doesn't like cheerleaders like SatoNatomato who behave like they are pulling a confidence trick to scam people later.

You still haven't explained why you lied in those 3 cases listed upthread. Of course, I don't expect you'll give any meaningful feedback on that, you'll just switch topic or make appearance you didn't notice this post...
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March 17, 2017, 01:36:52 PM
 #5949

misinformation

1. You claimed that Byteball is more secure than Monero and ZeroCoin. This was refuted by Byteball developer.
2. You claimed that Byteball blockchain can be compressed by violating the Law of information preservation. Nuff said.
3. You claimed that PoW can't be used as anti-Sybil measure. You still failed to explain how Bitcoin works then.

So, who is spreading misinformation?
1. Was not refuted, tonych claimed Byteball has better usability, which is true. Byteball does have private untraceable and usable payments, which are more secure as its implementation is easier than Zcash and similar coins (as seen from Komodo debacle).

2. Byteball does not have a blockchain. The Byteball database as it is today does compress well. Go back to your IOTA thread.

3. I claimed PoW and IoT are oxymorons, PoW in the context of IOTA is worthless, for bitcoin I stated it does add anti-Sybil, while you claimed bitcoin doesnt have anti-Sybil defense.

Nice to see you troll here again, raises at least this thread to top of Announcement.
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March 17, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
 #5950

I appreciate the increased knowledge thanks to both parties Wink
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March 17, 2017, 01:45:06 PM
 #5951

1. Was not refuted, tonych claimed Byteball has better usability, which is true. Byteball does have private untraceable and usable payments, which are more secure as its implementation is easier than Zcash and similar coins (as seen from Komodo debacle).

2. Byteball does not have a blockchain. The Byteball database as it is today does compress well. Go back to your IOTA thread.

3. I claimed PoW and IoT are oxymorons, PoW in the context of IOTA is worthless, for bitcoin I stated it does add anti-Sybil, while you claimed bitcoin doesnt have anti-Sybil defense.

Nice to see you troll here again, raises at least this thread to top of Announcement.

1. Now you have moved your goalpost.
2. I already explained why you are wrong and DAG/chain doesn't affect this at all. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory.
3. While we could continue arguing on the first half you still lied about the second one. Do you see how low you have fallen?
SatoNatomato
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March 17, 2017, 01:45:42 PM
 #5952

Can only mean 1 thing. IOTA sucks, and IOTA-dev is afraid of Byteball, sees it as worthywhile competition that he has to spend time in this thread calling Byteball a blockchain, Byteball features an overkill and other nonsense.
pulling a confidence trick to scam people later.

Of course, if a principal developer (me) at Big Enterprise, is tasked with selecting a decentralized IoT marketplace and transfer-of-value for our next line of IoT-products, and after careful consideration of both these, I pick Byteball over IOTA.

Seriously, you expected usually battery-driven devices (Internet of Things), which has < 100Mhz CPU with shitty instructions/s, memory in the 128kb range, flash-"disk" of 1MB, which struggles to perform concurrent HTTPS-connections... to do Proof-of-WORK, to transact with other devices? On these IoT devices every watt counts, every awake-sleep cycle matters, and you want them to, I cant even finish this, its so laughable.

Get over your hurt ego, you knew nothing of IoT when you began your dumb coin, and probably dont even now, so stick to scamming cryptonerds and altcoin investors, promise them Big Enterprise cooperation, exchanges etc, pump up the value and cash out like you always do.  Roll Eyes


 
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March 17, 2017, 01:47:26 PM
 #5953

Of course, if a principal developer (me) at Big Enterprise, is tasked with selecting a decentralized IoT marketplace and transfer-of-value for our next line of IoT-products...

Of course, no proofs of this statement?
SatoNatomato
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March 17, 2017, 01:48:10 PM
 #5954


1. Now you have moved your goalpost.
2. I already explained why you are wrong and DAG/chain doesn't affect this at all. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory.
3. While we could continue arguing on the first half you still lied about the second one. Do you see how low you have fallen?
1. No you moved yours, really mature argument you have there.

2. Anybody in here can grab todays copy of Byteball database which is around 1.4GB and it compresses with gzip -9 down to 300MB.

Go and dwell some more on kindergarden reading classes, since you obviously fail in reading comprehension.
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March 17, 2017, 01:53:17 PM
 #5955

1. No you moved yours, really mature argument you have there.

Let's recall how it was:

Id say the blackbytes + Tor support makes Byteball more secure and anonymous than even Monero or Zcash.

I hope noone will really believe the quoted words, or they may find themselves in serious troubles...

Now you are just trolling and spreading fear with only these three dots ... to back it up, because your own shit coin iota is worthless.

@tonych, do you support the claim of SatoNatomato the Expert?

I think the privacy features of all 3 coins are more or less the same for most practical purposes.   What differs, and what matters most for regular users, is usability.

Thx, I'll use this together with other fuckups of SatoNatomato (which he will, of course, make in the future) to show the real level of his "competence".

Another appeal to authority argument.  Roll Eyes

I still stand by my words, regardless what tonych thinks, respectfully disagree.

So, once again, what do you "respectfully disagree" with?

PS: I'll prepare the answer for #2, you can start making excuses for the above in the meanwhile.
SatoNatomato
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March 17, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
 #5956

Of course, if a principal developer (me) at Big Enterprise, is tasked with selecting a decentralized IoT marketplace and transfer-of-value for our next line of IoT-products...

Of course, no proofs of this statement?
Son, you really think I look up to you so I have to prove something to you? And that would be doxxing myself?

Nice try to derail from your failure.

Iota. IoT.... Proof-of-Work...https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif
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March 17, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
 #5957

2. Anybody in here can grab todays copy of Byteball database which is around 1.4GB and it compresses with gzip -9 down to 300MB.

Here we go:

How much hdd space do I need to download full DAG today? Is DAG somehow limited in size, or someone can make billions of transactions and bloat it?

Please read the OP:
The fees paid for storing one’s transactions (or any other data) in the Byteball database are equal to the size of the data being stored.  If the size of your transaction data is 500 bytes, you pay exactly 500 bytes (the native currency of Byteball) in fees.

So what? With a fee of 50$ someone can make DAG twice as big overnight? With a fee 500$ can make it 10 gb more? There is people who can do this just for fun. Is there some prunning mechanism what will allow to cut old transactions from database?

There isn't. I'm pointing this out for a long time but nobody is listening. Byteball has the same scalability problem like any other blockchain with adjustable blocksize limit. Database grows indefinitely and hardware and bandwith are the limiting factors. Moreover if somebody wants to attack byteball by sending huge data to the database it''s pretty easy and cheap at the current price. 8 years old Bitcoin blockchain nears 100 GB and you can make byteball database that big in 1 day for just $6700.

we definitely need an explanation from dev about it.

I dont think the problem exists today, of too fast growth too big load on nodes, hence low priority task. 100GB for bitcoin database is small anyway, compare with how much storage a random bank requires to run its business? Byteball database does grow fast, it can compress well, there can be other implementations to make it even smaller.

It's quite obvious that once people start to care about their GBs they'll do everything to spend as less them on fees as possible. It's a no-brainer to compress data before pushing them to Byteball storage. As the result most of data in Byteball DB will already have near-max entropy. At this point lossless compressing won't give noticeable benefit.

I hope you get now why that your post was misleading...
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March 17, 2017, 01:56:49 PM
 #5958

Son, you really think I look up to you so I have to prove something to you? And that would be doxxing myself?

Nice try to derail from your failure.

Iota. IoT.... Proof-of-Work...https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif

We could find a 3rd party agent who will act as an escrow and will verify your claim without giving any information to me. How much are you willing to bet?
SatoNatomato
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March 17, 2017, 01:59:45 PM
 #5959

This is what you are trying to bury in a hurry.

Can only mean 1 thing. IOTA sucks, and IOTA-dev is afraid of Byteball, sees it as worthywhile competition that he has to spend time in this thread calling Byteball a blockchain, Byteball features an overkill and other nonsense.
pulling a confidence trick to scam people later.

Of course, if a principal developer (me) at Big Enterprise, is tasked with selecting a decentralized IoT marketplace and transfer-of-value for our next line of IoT-products, and after careful consideration of both these, I pick Byteball over IOTA.

Seriously, you expected usually battery-driven devices (Internet of Things), which has < 100Mhz CPU with shitty instructions/s, memory in the 128kb range, flash-"disk" of 1MB, which struggles to perform concurrent HTTPS-connections... to do Proof-of-WORK, to transact with other devices? On these IoT devices every watt counts, every awake-sleep cycle matters, and you want them to, I cant even finish this, its so laughable.

Get over your hurt ego, you knew nothing of IoT when you began your dumb coin, and probably dont even now, so stick to scamming cryptonerds and altcoin investors, promise them Big Enterprise cooperation, exchanges etc, pump up the value and cash out like you always do.  Roll Eyes
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March 17, 2017, 02:00:39 PM
 #5960

To make sure you see this:

We could find a 3rd party agent who will act as an escrow and will verify your claim without giving any information to me. How much are you willing to bet?
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