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cybterpunk
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January 31, 2017, 06:56:25 AM |
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this project is very interesting.
what's the biggest advantage of DAG ?
what's the big difference with byteball and Iota ?
thank you very much
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 08:16:49 AM |
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this project is very interesting.
what's the biggest advantage of DAG ?
what's the big difference with byteball and Iota ?
thank you very much
Advantage of DAG: Environmentally friendly, no mining required, possibility to scale (in tx/s) well. Difference: Byteball solves the inherent problem of a DAG - that it can grow horizontally - that is, each one/node can begin their own set of transactions which the others on the network do not see - causing problems of double-spending and not being able to have "confirmations"/finality for the rest of the network as the self-grown history can be merged (back) anytime, in fact, what the mainline is is undefined, thats the problem. You can have many histories many branches and need to know/decide by consensus which branch of the DAG is considered the true one. Byteball solves this problem with a set of 12 witnesses who define the Main Chain, by rolling up transactions in collections called balls, witnesses "stamp" each valid transaction they see, if someone tries to grow the DAG horizontally, witnesses wont see it, so it wont be possible to merge back - unless its valid at that point, this is the "consensus algorithm" of Byteball. Main Chain. Thats it. Iota doesnt solve this problem, instead they require trust between each ones/nodes, requires to trust the peer and no peer is allowed to enter the network without being vetted - so any problem nodes, nodes which make their own branches and widen the DAG, are confined to small parts of the network, and they have centralized milestones to define what the mainline in their DAG is, a manual developer-ruled process. Ill give one point to Iota though, they use (attempt to have) "quantum safe" cryptographic primities, which Byteball doesnt do (I think Byteball is using the bitcoin selected and popularized secp256k1 curve for most of the important parts? And some SHA*). Still though, what Ive seen, Iota implements their own kind of sponge function which is a no-no in crypto, so Id be vary. |
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Kryptowerk
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 Offline
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1401
Disobey.
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January 31, 2017, 08:51:54 AM |
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Very interesting project.
I have successfully linked my BTCs to my Byteball address. However I wonder how I can now link funds of an other BTC wallet to an other Byteball wallet I created (it's for my gf if you're wondering why). Right now the transition bot seems to be "stuck" with my own linked address.
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Come-from-Beyond
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Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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January 31, 2017, 09:45:36 AM |
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Iota doesnt solve this problem, instead they require trust between each ones/nodes, requires to trust the peer and no peer is allowed to enter the network without being vetted - so any problem nodes, nodes which make their own branches and widen the DAG, are confined to small parts of the network, and they have centralized milestones to define what the mainline in their DAG is, a manual developer-ruled process.
Interesting how you called white "back" and back "white". Putting IOTA aside because it's an offtopic, I have a question: Total order is established by selecting a single chain on the DAG (the main chain) that is attracted to units signed by known users called witnesses. Who are these witnesses now? |
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kaicrypzen
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January 31, 2017, 09:55:50 AM |
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I have a question: Total order is established by selecting a single chain on the DAG (the main chain) that is attracted to units signed by known users called witnesses. Who are these witnesses now? The default witnesses' list contains witnesses run by Tony. His confirmation can be found in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg17644269#msg17644269. By the way, a one-witness difference is accepted, so you can replace one of those twelve by one of yours or of someone you trust. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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January 31, 2017, 10:07:31 AM |
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I think I won't wait for SatoNatomato's response, it will likely contain only nonsense. I'll explain my concern right away:
Byteball uses witnesses. There are 2 ways to choose the witnesses:
1. They are picked by every user for himself
2. They are elected via global voting
If it's #1 then it becomes possible that some users are almost isolated from each other because they have only few common witnesses. #2 leads to a more serious problem which arises if a user is faced with more than 2 options (just google why it's a serious problem, there should be many links with mathematical proofs on impossibility of coming to a satisfying consensus). The problem of picking an option has already striked twice in the cryptoindustry. First it was Ripple/Stellar consensus flaw drama when Stellar admitted to have a flawed consensus while Ripple decided to make appearance they were fine (heh, they had enough money not to care about community opinion). The second time which I remember it was Factom drama, now I can't find the links, but in few words: they "sold" a flawed voting mechanism which was unfixable because they allowed more than 2 options.
So my concern is that cryptocoin developers don't take voting seriosly. I noticed this several years ago in Bitshares. Back then I was thinking that voting is easy, only after working with two professors (on two separate tasks) who were specializing in voting I got that it's all actually not that simple...
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 10:07:54 AM |
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Very interesting project.
I have successfully linked my BTCs to my Byteball address. However I wonder how I can now link funds of an other BTC wallet to an other Byteball wallet I created (it's for my gf if you're wondering why). Right now the transition bot seems to be "stuck" with my own linked address.
Its the same procedure as for the first. Your other BTC wallet, all you need is to place your bitcoins in 1 bitcoin-address, I suggest you do this with Electrum or another bitcoin-wallet which supports signatures. Then you start your other byteball wallet and begin talking to the transition bot. Sometimes the transition bot is overloaded or needs care, then you wait a while until tonych fixes it. Signing the byteball address with your bitcoin wallet is easier and much faster than making micro-transactions. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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January 31, 2017, 10:10:38 AM |
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By the way, a one-witness difference is accepted, so you can replace one of those twelve by one of yours or of someone you trust.
Thx, so what to do if you and me trust to almost totally different sets of witnesses? |
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 10:15:55 AM |
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Aside, another difference between Iota and Byteball is the style of leadership, see this thread a few pages back, for Come-From-Beyonds nonsense, threats hostility, derailing discussions, and avoiding answering technical questions on Iota.
In the Iota thread you cant see it because it is actively censored. Example is 1 or 2 pages back, CfB and his Iota friends ask me for "what is the problem of Iota", I explain in 1, 2, 3 points, invite to be corrected, and get no response other than "Ill set your trust rating to -2", and now more of same bullshit.
So, Iota is a scam, which doesnt have 10% of the features Byteball has (Declarative Smart-Contracts, anonymous untraceable "off-the-DAG" payments, assets etc), but has something Byteball doesnt have - an authoritarian ego-tripped leadership, the only thing bigger than Iota leaderships ego in this solar system is the Sun. The only technological arguments CfB can make is appealing to his own authority or his professor friends, PhDs and "fintech experts".
Compare the community and leadership of Byteball, it is humble, we have freedom to talk in this thread, uncensored, which is why CfB is now here and not in his own thread.
EDIT: lol, now he is trying to spread FUD (insinuating consensus algorithm of byteball is flawed because it contains the words/required voting and comparing to ripple etc) and ask dumb questions which are already answered in this thread 10 times and in the whitepaper. Not worth of a response.
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achimsmile
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Activity: 1225
Merit: 1000
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January 31, 2017, 10:29:26 AM |
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Byteball solves this problem with a set of 12 witnesses which are all controlled by tonych atm. Iota doesnt solve this problem [...] they have centralized milestones to define what the mainline in their DAG is, a manual developer-ruled process.
There are centralized milestones right now, but the coordinator will be shut off this july. Both seem to be centralized now, which is necessary for bootstrapping phase because small networks are easier to attack. As a neutral bystander I'd say that both seem to work, in their way. Yet there are users that conceive one of them as a scam, which doesn't make sense. |
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 10:31:32 AM |
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Byteball solves this problem with a set of 12 witnesses which are all controlled by tonych atm. ATM all bytes arent distributed. You can start your witness now and begin using it. Anyway I dont care to discuss Iota anymore, so take those questions in their own censored communities. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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January 31, 2017, 10:36:55 AM |
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Byteball solves this problem with a set of 12 witnesses which are all controlled by tonych atm. Will the number be increased? Or IPs of these witnesses are unknown and hence no DoS protection is required? |
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sotisoti
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January 31, 2017, 12:33:50 PM
Last edit: January 31, 2017, 01:01:07 PM by sotisoti |
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I didn't follow the thread much, what's the difference between blackbyte and whitebyte?
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Bitrated user: sotisoti.
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Krypt
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Activity: 1538
Merit: 1093
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January 31, 2017, 12:53:58 PM |
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what's the difference between blackbyte and whitebyte?
Byte is a native platform's coin, and black byte is a built-in private untraceable token (asset). |
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 01:03:55 PM |
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what's the difference between blackbyte and whitebyte?
Byte is a native platform's coin, and black byte is a built-in private untraceable token (asset). Indeed, but to have the anonymous/private (meaning your counter-part shouldnt know your IP-address) part, you need to use the Wallet software over Tor, or even I2P if thats your cup of tea. Blackbyte transactions arent stored on any public ledger, they are only stored in the wallet which has them. And you need bytes to transfer blackbytes, or any other assets, to pay for the (network, transaction) fee which is usually around 540bytes. So if you do 1 000 transactions per month you need 540kilobytes, to transfer any amount of blackbytes. Id say the blackbytes + Tor support makes Byteball more secure and anonymous than even Monero or Zcash. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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January 31, 2017, 01:15:23 PM |
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Id say the blackbytes + Tor support makes Byteball more secure and anonymous than even Monero or Zcash.
I hope noone will really believe the quoted words, or they may find themselves in serious troubles... |
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str4wm4n
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Activity: 1611
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January 31, 2017, 01:45:20 PM |
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 Price chart is looking beautiful for another breakout to > 0.08 soon! |
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 01:45:46 PM |
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Id say the blackbytes + Tor support makes Byteball more secure and anonymous than even Monero or Zcash.
I hope noone will really believe the quoted words, or they may find themselves in serious troubles... Now you are just trolling and spreading fear with only these three dots ... to back it up, because your own shit coin iota is worthless. |
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SatoNatomato
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January 31, 2017, 01:50:30 PM |
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Price chart is looking beautiful for another breakout to > 0.08 soon! Nice chart. It will increase to 0.59 after the 11th distribution round given each round increases price with same percentage. The actual price/value will be 16BTC for 1GB, that is 1BTC for 62.5MB, which will probably be reached on the 3rd year. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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January 31, 2017, 02:04:04 PM |
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Id say the blackbytes + Tor support makes Byteball more secure and anonymous than even Monero or Zcash.
I hope noone will really believe the quoted words, or they may find themselves in serious troubles... Now you are just trolling and spreading fear with only these three dots ... to back it up, because your own shit coin iota is worthless. @tonych, do you support the claim of SatoNatomato the Expert? |
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