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Author Topic: [1200 TH] EMC: 0 Fee DGM. Anonymous PPS. US & EU servers. No Registration!  (Read 461673 times)
Meni Rosenfeld
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November 21, 2011, 05:23:31 AM
 #1081

So I made some adjustments as you mentioned, Meni... I'm not sure that clears up any confusion, just seems to be trading it for different confusion.

So we have a 95% block, which is good luck, but a 13% block which is bad luck.  Seems like we should still have some sort of positive/negative list as to if we are under or over expected shares (difficulty). 
I don't think it's that important to know if it's above/below difficulty. "Luck" gives the connotation of making comparisons in the percentile space. Then average luck is 69.3% of the difficulty, which is the 50% percentile (median). Above 50% should be green, below should be red (currently it looks like the midpoint for colors is about 40%).

Anyway, I think it will look better if all numbers in the column will be in the format ##.##%, even if it has leading or trailing 0's.

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mmortal03
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November 21, 2011, 10:32:31 AM
 #1082

Hey Catfish, I'll bite.  I'd like to try out your setup.

mmortal03 - Hmm, yeah I can up the default. So you're thinking like 20 NMC or something?  What about when we reach parity with BTC difficulty though?

Sorry, I didn't see your post.  What you could probably do is just make it a ratio based on whatever the exchange rate is, and then round it off to a whole number, that is, if you do have the ability in your code to make it vary with the exchange rate.
Inaba
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November 21, 2011, 07:24:38 PM
 #1083

So I made some adjustments as you mentioned, Meni... I'm not sure that clears up any confusion, just seems to be trading it for different confusion.

So we have a 95% block, which is good luck, but a 13% block which is bad luck.  Seems like we should still have some sort of positive/negative list as to if we are under or over expected shares (difficulty).  
I don't think it's that important to know if it's above/below difficulty. "Luck" gives the connotation of making comparisons in the percentile space. Then average luck is 69.3% of the difficulty, which is the 50% percentile (median). Above 50% should be green, below should be red (currently it looks like the midpoint for colors is about 40%).

Anyway, I think it will look better if all numbers in the column will be in the format ##.##%, even if it has leading or trailing 0's.

The problem I have with the original method, as I stated, was that there was no upward bound on bad luck since it can't be counter balanced by good luck (which is bound to 0 or 1).  

However, with the percentile, the bad luck gets compressed at the low end and again has no meaningful bound (bad luck of .46% and .11% - a huge number of shares, but a virtually meaningless difference percent wise in human terms.  .46% and .11% don't express how bad that luck really is in a way that's more visceral than the straight math.)

Maybe there's no good way to express it mathematically and it just needs an arbitrary label:

0 - 20% of shares D -> Happy face with a lollipop
21% - 60% of shares D -> Happy face
61% - 100% of shares D -> Neutral face
100% - 120% of shares D -> Sad face
120% - 200% of shares D -> Crying face
>200% of shares D -> Dead stick figure

Just a thought. Smiley

Anyway - what does everyone else think?  Purely mathematic numbers that have a real meaning behind them or arbitrary "general feel" description of the luck?



If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Meni Rosenfeld
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November 21, 2011, 08:00:16 PM
 #1084

Maybe there's no good way to express it mathematically and it just needs an arbitrary label:
I think the question of what number to display is completely distinct from how to visualize it. For the number you can have (N/D-1) as it was before, or exp(-N/D) as it is now, or ln(N/D) as organ suggested. Each has its own pros and cons with respect to the message you want to deliver.

And then you can choose how each possibility should be visualized. If for example you feel that anything above 400% difficulty (which happens for 1.83% of blocks) is an Eternally Damned Cursed Block from Azazel, give it an icon and color to match.

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Inaba
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November 21, 2011, 09:50:01 PM
 #1085

The shades of red and blue are neat.

The luck column now cuts off some of the leading digits though.  I checked in both Chrome and IE.  I think you need to increase the luck column width.

Sorry, meant to respond to this.  Can you show a screenshot of what you're talking about?  I don't see it on my browsers (three or four different machines, too). 

Quote
I think the question of what number to display is completely distinct from how to visualize it. For the number you can have (N/D-1) as it was before, or exp(-N/D) as it is now, or ln(N/D) as organ suggested. Each has its own pros and cons with respect to the message you want to deliver.

Yes, I agree, that is actually the question I have been trying to articulate and failing. Smiley  So I would say exp(-N/D) is adequate for that if defined boundaries for the visualization are made good.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Inaba
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November 22, 2011, 01:12:43 AM
 #1086

Cash out is coming.  Beware!

But seriously... I'm in the final stages of testing the new cash out code (thanks, once again, to Meni for the idea and math help).  Once I verify that it processes future paid blocks properly, which should be in about another 12 blocks, I will make it live.

The cash out option will allow you to be paid immediately for all of your BTC, including your unconfirmed BTC and unrealized score BTC.  Because there is substantial risk involved with paying out unconfirmed and unrealized BTC, there is a 10% fee tacked onto the unconfirmed and unrealized cashout.  You will still be paid for your confirmed BTC without a fee.

What this means is if you wish to be paid NOW for all of your work, you can use this feature, less a 10% fee on unconfirmed blocks and be paid.  Your score will be reset and it will be as if you just started mining on the pool if you continue to mine.  The risk for the pool is that if we have a block invalidated, we are absorbing your payout.  If a block runs exceptionally long, your unrealized payout would normally be less than you were actually paid out for, so I have to cover that for the pool as well.  This is why there is a 10% fee on those two portions of your payout. 

The cash out option is not really intended to be used regularly, but only if you, for what ever reason, need to be paid now.

It currently does not pay out NMC pending (or confirmed) - I would recommend you convert NMC to BTC before doing that, or take your NMC payout.  I will be adding cash out for NMC in the near future, but I wanted to make sure this was working properly first.

If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, please let me know!

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Inaba
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November 22, 2011, 02:24:06 PM
 #1087

I've made the cash out option live, at least for a limited test run.  Feel free to make use of it as you see fit. Smiley



If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Inaba
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November 28, 2011, 03:42:49 PM
 #1088

Great, glad you like it!  If there's any feature(s) your want, please let me know and I'll see what I can do to accommodate them. 

*haven't forgotten about the teams thing.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
inlikeflynn
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November 29, 2011, 04:12:32 AM
 #1089

Nice pool Inaba. Going to try it here for a bit more stability than what ars has been lately. A lot of the stats and other features you have on the we page are really awesome too!
Druas
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November 29, 2011, 08:37:45 AM
 #1090

If there's any feature(s) your want, please let me know and I'll see what I can do to accommodate them. 

*haven't forgotten about the teams thing.

Maybe an IRC channel? I would personally like that more than mining teams, not sure why people care about mining teams, but whatever. IRC could be useful for simple questions like on the block stats page, are the totals for all-time or just for whichever blocks are currently on that page? Is there a way to go back further in history than what is on that page?
Inaba
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November 29, 2011, 02:38:22 PM
 #1091

If there's any feature(s) your want, please let me know and I'll see what I can do to accommodate them. 

*haven't forgotten about the teams thing.

Maybe an IRC channel? I would personally like that more than mining teams, not sure why people care about mining teams, but whatever. IRC could be useful for simple questions like on the block stats page, are the totals for all-time or just for whichever blocks are currently on that page? Is there a way to go back further in history than what is on that page?

We actually have an IRC channel, but no one uses/used it, so it's pretty much abandoned I think.  It's on Freenode under #EclipseMC if I recall correctly.

For the HTML block stats page, it's strictly for what you see.  If you want all stats, you can export to CSV, which is a link at the bottom of the page, or the API has all blocks.... I don't think I limited the API to the last 50 blocks.

Goat -

For sadpandatech's request - I would need a bit more elaboration on that.  What exactly is wanted?  Pool or user BTC over time?  That's hard to calculate if you want to include the currently worked on block and would be an estimate only.  If you wanted just confirmed blocks, then that's a bit easier.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Druas
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November 29, 2011, 07:23:18 PM
 #1092

We actually have an IRC channel, but no one uses/used it, so it's pretty much abandoned I think.  It's on Freenode under #EclipseMC if I recall correctly.

For the HTML block stats page, it's strictly for what you see.  If you want all stats, you can export to CSV, which is a link at the bottom of the page, or the API has all blocks.... I don't think I limited the API to the last 50 blocks.
Ah, that is too bad no one uses it. You could try to add it to some places on the website/OP in this thread so people know it exists. Maybe if the average hashrate goes up a bunch, more people will be mining and hangout there. I know other pools have channels where a decent amount of people idle in. Some also have bots that announce when a block is found, next difficulty estimates, etc. I find you can usually figure out answers to questions faster with instant messaging rather than forums or email.

If the "Totals" row is only what for what you see, it is a somewhat worthless stat. So what if for the blocks on that particular page the DGM scoring method has given me +2% extra than proportional if the reality is that in all blocks I have participated in I am actually at -5%. Maybe I am the only one who would get use out of this, but having multiple pages for older blocks would be cool. At this point I don't think it would be that big of deal because it would be like four pages max. Or you could do one long page with a link to it around the Export CSV.
Druas
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November 29, 2011, 09:35:22 PM
 #1093

Also, block 164 says 6% for luck?
Inaba
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November 29, 2011, 10:06:20 PM
 #1094

Yeah how do those other sites have a bot to announce stuff?  

I also don't have OP to to the EclipseMC channel for some reason and I don't know who does.

I will see what I can do to add multiple pages to block history, although I'm not sure that would fix what you want out of the Prop Differential column.  I can make that happen in the export to CSV function, though.  The CSV option is one long page already, though of all blocks.

It means it's in the 6th percentile for long ass blocks, as in 94 out of 100 blocks are shorter than that.  Also, the % at the bottom in totals in incorrect, as it's still using the old formula of +/- percent.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
kripz
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November 29, 2011, 11:54:15 PM
 #1095

I have OP and tried to give it to you but it never happened, IIRC you didnt register your account.

 Merged mining, free SMS notifications, PayPal payout and much more.
http://btcstats.net/sig/JZCODg2
Druas
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November 30, 2011, 06:45:02 AM
 #1096

Yeah how do those other sites have a bot to announce stuff?

I will see what I can do to add multiple pages to block history, although I'm not sure that would fix what you want out of the Prop Differential column.

It means it's in the 6th percentile for long ass blocks, as in 94 out of 100 blocks are shorter than that.  Also, the % at the bottom in totals in incorrect, as it's still using the old formula of +/- percent.
Not sure. I really don't have that much experience with IRC.

I was just using what I said as an example. I had not even seen that row before and was just wondering if it was a true total (for all time), which you already said, it is not.

Does that mean that block 164 uses a different method to calculate luck than block 163? For block 165, does 76.15% mean that 76.15 out of 100 blocks are longer than that?
Inaba
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November 30, 2011, 02:52:02 PM
 #1097

Well, my account is registered when I log on, which is fairly rarely... but I can logon as some point to get ops.

Quote
I was just using what I said as an example. I had not even seen that row before and was just wondering if it was a true total (for all time), which you already said, it is not.

Does that mean that block 164 uses a different method to calculate luck than block 163? For block 165, does 76.15% mean that 76.15 out of 100 blocks are longer than that?


No, all the individual blocks use the new calculation and the totals row is using the old calculation.  I need to fix that... I will do that today.  I may add a line at the top for all time or something.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
FirewallXIII
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December 05, 2011, 02:26:15 AM
 #1098

Nice pool, just moved from Ars. Question though, on the my account page, there's an option for NMC Mining with yes/no options and no tool tip. Any clarification on what the options mean?
Inaba
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December 05, 2011, 02:36:58 AM
 #1099

If you don't wish to do any merged mining you can turn the option off and you won't submit shares to the NMC chain.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
cengique
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December 05, 2011, 05:08:56 PM
 #1100

Yeah how do those other sites have a bot to announce stuff?  

You can run an IRC bot as a regular process and it will login to freenode as a normal user. There are many bot programs, but LambdaBot is one we use our own channel with my friends. It's probably a little more advanced than what you need.

I think you may be able to modify a simple bot program to open a pipe to the IRC process and just write your announcements into it. I found this program, ii, with which you can do stuff like this:
Code:
ii -s irc.oftc.net -n iifoo -f "John Doe" 
iipid=$! 
# make announcements:
echo "/say Announcement!" > ~/irc/irc.oftc.net/in 
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