[1200 TH] EMC: 0 Fee DGM. Anonymous PPS. US & EU servers. No Registration!

[Math Man]

I just recently started mining a bit at your pool, and I do have one question..

I understand the double geometric scoring system, and I love the idea of it...

I am curious, though, why my prop-diff is quite often negative.  I'm not starting and stopping the rig, so I'm hashing continuously.  Shouldn't I be at 0 or higher?  What would cause me to get paid less than my share (proportional) if I'm not 'hopping' or taking breaks in mining?

Enigma

If you've started recently what you're seeing is probably your score building up. Your score starts at 0 and as you continue mining it increases until it reaches an equilibrium (which changes if the pool's total hashrate changes). So at first you'll receive less than proportional, in equilibrium it will be roughly the same, and if you quit at any time your score will gradually decrease to 0 and you will keep receiving rewards for some time.

I have a feeling that he's referring to the wildly varying payout compared to the proportional calculation that a number of us have been experiencing over these past 60 or so blocks.  The big up-swings in pool hash rate have caused some of us consistent miners to receive significantly smaller payouts when compared to proportional calculations for those blocks where the hash rate is unusually high.  Once the hash rate settles back down, the payout very slowly recovers.

I, for example, am still down compared to proportional for about the past 60 blocks.  I have a highly consistent hash rate and near 100% up- time, but the big swings in pool hash rate have not been kind to my payout.

[1984]

This has also been my experience, I mine 24/7 and, to be honest did much better with a scored system. Is there anyway to monitor our 'scores'?

[Enigma81]

I just recently started mining a bit at your pool, and I do have one question..

I understand the double geometric scoring system, and I love the idea of it...

I am curious, though, why my prop-diff is quite often negative.  I'm not starting and stopping the rig, so I'm hashing continuously.  Shouldn't I be at 0 or higher?  What would cause me to get paid less than my share (proportional) if I'm not 'hopping' or taking breaks in mining?

Enigma

If you've started recently what you're seeing is probably your score building up. Your score starts at 0 and as you continue mining it increases until it reaches an equilibrium (which changes if the pool's total hashrate changes). So at first you'll receive less than proportional, in equilibrium it will be roughly the same, and if you quit at any time your score will gradually decrease to 0 and you will keep receiving rewards for some time.

I have a feeling that he's referring to the wildly varying payout compared to the proportional calculation that a number of us have been experiencing over these past 60 or so blocks.  The big up-swings in pool hash rate have caused some of us consistent miners to receive significantly smaller payouts when compared to proportional calculations for those blocks where the hash rate is unusually high.  Once the hash rate settles back down, the payout very slowly recovers.

I, for example, am still down compared to proportional for about the past 60 blocks.  I have a highly consistent hash rate and near 100% up- time, but the big swings in pool hash rate have not been kind to my payout.

That seems to be exactly what I'm talking about - although I can't be sure since I don't know the exact calculation/formula.  Some blocks I'm ahead of the game, some behind - it's very inconsistent.  Overall, I'm up compared to proportional - I'm just trying to understand why I often times end up in the red for a block or two.  This definitely isn't me complaining - EMC seems like a great pool - I just want to be able to understand where the numbers come from.

Enigma

[kano]

I just recently started mining a bit at your pool, and I do have one question..

I understand the double geometric scoring system, and I love the idea of it...

I am curious, though, why my prop-diff is quite often negative.  I'm not starting and stopping the rig, so I'm hashing continuously.  Shouldn't I be at 0 or higher?  What would cause me to get paid less than my share (proportional) if I'm not 'hopping' or taking breaks in mining?

Enigma

If you've started recently what you're seeing is probably your score building up. Your score starts at 0 and as you continue mining it increases until it reaches an equilibrium (which changes if the pool's total hashrate changes). So at first you'll receive less than proportional, in equilibrium it will be roughly the same, and if you quit at any time your score will gradually decrease to 0 and you will keep receiving rewards for some time.

I have a feeling that he's referring to the wildly varying payout compared to the proportional calculation that a number of us have been experiencing over these past 60 or so blocks.  The big up-swings in pool hash rate have caused some of us consistent miners to receive significantly smaller payouts when compared to proportional calculations for those blocks where the hash rate is unusually high.  Once the hash rate settles back down, the payout very slowly recovers.

I, for example, am still down compared to proportional for about the past 60 blocks.  I have a highly consistent hash rate and near 100% up- time, but the big swings in pool hash rate have not been kind to my payout.

That seems to be exactly what I'm talking about - although I can't be sure since I don't know the exact calculation/formula.  Some blocks I'm ahead of the game, some behind - it's very inconsistent.  Overall, I'm up compared to proportional - I'm just trying to understand why I often times end up in the red for a block or two.  This definitely isn't me complaining - EMC seems like a great pool - I just want to be able to understand where the numbers come from.

Enigma

I guess the after payments would make that clear.
If you stop mining, then you will still receive some payments for a number of blocks after that.
Since you haven't already been paid for all your work (there is still more to come) then you should expect to be under by some amount.

[stoppots]

I just recently started mining a bit at your pool, and I do have one question..

I understand the double geometric scoring system, and I love the idea of it...

I am curious, though, why my prop-diff is quite often negative.  I'm not starting and stopping the rig, so I'm hashing continuously.  Shouldn't I be at 0 or higher?  What would cause me to get paid less than my share (proportional) if I'm not 'hopping' or taking breaks in mining?

Enigma

If you've started recently what you're seeing is probably your score building up. Your score starts at 0 and as you continue mining it increases until it reaches an equilibrium (which changes if the pool's total hashrate changes). So at first you'll receive less than proportional, in equilibrium it will be roughly the same, and if you quit at any time your score will gradually decrease to 0 and you will keep receiving rewards for some time.

I have a feeling that he's referring to the wildly varying payout compared to the proportional calculation that a number of us have been experiencing over these past 60 or so blocks.  The big up-swings in pool hash rate have caused some of us consistent miners to receive significantly smaller payouts when compared to proportional calculations for those blocks where the hash rate is unusually high.  Once the hash rate settles back down, the payout very slowly recovers.

I, for example, am still down compared to proportional for about the past 60 blocks.  I have a highly consistent hash rate and near 100% up- time, but the big swings in pool hash rate have not been kind to my payout.

That seems to be exactly what I'm talking about - although I can't be sure since I don't know the exact calculation/formula. Some blocks I'm ahead of the game, some behind - it's very inconsistent.  Overall, I'm up compared to proportional - I'm just trying to understand why I often times end up in the red for a block or two.  This definitely isn't me complaining - EMC seems like a great pool - I just want to be able to understand where the numbers come from.

Enigma

I guess the after payments would make that clear.
If you stop mining, then you will still receive some payments for a number of blocks after that.
Since you haven't already been paid for all your work (there is still more to come) then you should expect to be under by some amount.

Would also like to add how the effect the invalid blocks are calculated into this equation also. Seems this has to be a major factor when they occur more frequently.

[Inaba]

No, invalid blocks will not affect your score.  I am happy to provide individual scores (and pool score) if that's what people want to see - though I'm not sure if that would really provide any additional information - but I will make it available; I just need to figure out where to put it. 

I think I am going to do away with prop differential on an individual block level, since it's really meaningless as an indicator of what is going on with your payout/score for that block.  The semi-variable lag time between what's happening and what's reflected in your score is just too confusing.  I will keep an overall prop differential at the bottom of the block stats though, which is really the more accurate indicator.  Although it will not include your +prop differential that is banked for when you stop mining... hmm, I wonder how I can include that, I will look into that.

Does anyone have any comments or reasons why not to remove the prop differential from individual blocks?

[Meni Rosenfeld]

I just recently started mining a bit at your pool, and I do have one question..

I understand the double geometric scoring system, and I love the idea of it...

I am curious, though, why my prop-diff is quite often negative.  I'm not starting and stopping the rig, so I'm hashing continuously.  Shouldn't I be at 0 or higher?  What would cause me to get paid less than my share (proportional) if I'm not 'hopping' or taking breaks in mining?

Enigma

If you've started recently what you're seeing is probably your score building up. Your score starts at 0 and as you continue mining it increases until it reaches an equilibrium (which changes if the pool's total hashrate changes). So at first you'll receive less than proportional, in equilibrium it will be roughly the same, and if you quit at any time your score will gradually decrease to 0 and you will keep receiving rewards for some time.

I have a feeling that he's referring to the wildly varying payout compared to the proportional calculation that a number of us have been experiencing over these past 60 or so blocks.  The big up-swings in pool hash rate have caused some of us consistent miners to receive significantly smaller payouts when compared to proportional calculations for those blocks where the hash rate is unusually high.  Once the hash rate settles back down, the payout very slowly recovers.

I, for example, am still down compared to proportional for about the past 60 blocks.  I have a highly consistent hash rate and near 100% up- time, but the big swings in pool hash rate have not been kind to my payout.

That seems to be exactly what I'm talking about - although I can't be sure since I don't know the exact calculation/formula.  Some blocks I'm ahead of the game, some behind - it's very inconsistent.  Overall, I'm up compared to proportional - I'm just trying to understand why I often times end up in the red for a block or two.  This definitely isn't me complaining - EMC seems like a great pool - I just want to be able to understand where the numbers come from.

Enigma

Oh, it is perfectly normal for there to be variations in the prop difference between blocks. These are caused mostly by fluctuations in the pool's total hashrate.

BUT I want it to be very clear that it is the proportional reward that changes, not the DGM reward. DGM is guaranteed to give the fair payout on average, proportional isn't. What you may have been seeing is that the fluctuations would cause you a higher than average rewards with prop, but DGM isn't affected so you see a negative differential (eg if people happened to join before a block was found, and quit after). If the fluctuations are random they could just as well decrease the prop payout and then you would see a positive differential.

Of course, I am not in any position to rule out technical problems with the pool itself which could cause abnormal behavior.

What would you like to know about the calculations? The details of DGM are described in the DGM thread, the prop reward is calculated by your shares / round shares * block reward. Maybe there could be a graph showing your share density over the round, if it's lighter near the end it means people joined there which would cause a higher proportional reward (and lower prop differential).

This has also been my experience, I mine 24/7 and, to be honest did much better with a scored system. Is there anyway to monitor our 'scores'?

This is a score-based system, though different (and better) than the specific score-based method currently used in slush's pool. If you've received less reward per unit time than with another pool this is most likely a result of bad luck (maybe specifically the recent invalid blocks).

The displayed "estimated reward" is directly proportional to your current score.

[A1BITCOINPOOL]

HEY EVERYONE COME CHECK OUT THIS THREAD AND SEE HOW YOUR POOL OPERATOR IS ACTING LIKE A LITTLE KID. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58879.0.  NORMALLY I WOULDN'T DO THIS BUT HE HAS DONE NOTHING BUT HIJACK MY THREAD AND BAD MOUTH MY POOL ON THE FIRST DAY OF LAUNCH.  HE EVEN WENT AS FAR AS TRYING TO DOS MY POOL.  NOT SURE WHAT HIS PROBLEM IS BUT COULD ONE OF YOU TAKE HIM HOME TO HIS MOMMY.

[rjk]

HEY EVERYONE COME CHECK OUT THIS THREAD AND SEE HOW YOUR POOL OPERATOR IS ACTING LIKE A LITTLE KID. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58879.0.  NORMALLY I WOULDN'T DO THIS BUT HE HAS DONE NOTHING BUT HIJACK MY THREAD AND BAD MOUTH MY POOL ON THE FIRST DAY OF LAUNCH.  HE EVEN WENT AS FAR AS TRYING TO DOS MY POOL.  NOT SURE WHAT HIS PROBLEM IS BUT COULD ONE OF YOU TAKE HIM HOME TO HIS MOMMY.

lol kid? Posting in all caps, bold, and red? Sounds legit.

EDIT: Removed color and reduced size 'cause it was hurting my eyes

[Math Man]

HEY EVERYONE COME CHECK OUT THIS THREAD AND SEE HOW YOUR POOL OPERATOR IS ACTING LIKE A LITTLE KID. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58879.0.  NORMALLY I WOULDN'T DO THIS BUT HE HAS DONE NOTHING BUT HIJACK MY THREAD AND BAD MOUTH MY POOL ON THE FIRST DAY OF LAUNCH.  HE EVEN WENT AS FAR AS TRYING TO DOS MY POOL.  NOT SURE WHAT HIS PROBLEM IS BUT COULD ONE OF YOU TAKE HIM HOME TO HIS MOMMY.

At least he's bringing some humor to this thread...even if it's everyone laughing at him and not with him.

[Inaba]

Heh, yes... I "DOS'd" his pool by pointing 10 GH/s from my mining farm.  Also, it's not your first day of launch, you already launched your pool as TNTmining a month ago, switched the payout system mid-round and then disappeared never to be heard from again, absconding without paying out any funds.  Now you restarted your pool under a different name.

[Kluge]

Heh, yes... I "DOS'd" his pool by pointing 10 GH/s from my mining farm.  Also, it's not your first day of launch, you already launched your pool as TNTmining a month ago, switched the payout system mid-round and then disappeared never to be heard from again, absconding without paying out any funds.  Now you restarted your pool under a different name.

I'm considering moving from BTCGuild after reading this. 

Edit: Making the switch. 2GH/s on its way!

[organofcorti]

Heh, yes... I "DOS'd" his pool by pointing 10 GH/s from my mining farm.  Also, it's not your first day of launch, you already launched your pool as TNTmining a month ago, switched the payout system mid-round and then disappeared never to be heard from again, absconding without paying out any funds.  Now you restarted your pool under a different name.

I'm considering moving from BTCGuild after reading this.  

Edit: Making the switch. 2GH/s on its way!

Did you actually read the thread? Inaba probably prevented a pile of new miners from mining on a proportionally scored pool. This is a good thing.

edit: I'm leaving this here to remind me not to be an idiot and read things properly before I post. For example, remembering to note the difference between 'from' and 'to'. Sorry, Kluge.

[Kluge]

Heh, yes... I "DOS'd" his pool by pointing 10 GH/s from my mining farm.  Also, it's not your first day of launch, you already launched your pool as TNTmining a month ago, switched the payout system mid-round and then disappeared never to be heard from again, absconding without paying out any funds.  Now you restarted your pool under a different name.

I'm considering moving from BTCGuild after reading this.  

Edit: Making the switch. 2GH/s on its way!

Did you actually read the thread? Inaba probably prevented a pile of new miners from mining on a proportionally scored pool. This is a good thing.

edit: I'm leaving this here to remind me not to be an idiot and read things properly before I post. For example, remembering to note the difference between 'from' and 'to'. Sorry, Kluge.

I've done soooooo much worse...   

Web interface is pretty nice. Need a few more days to figure out average, but it seems about on par with what I was earning in BTCGuild. Not rewarding donations with usability is appreciated, too. 

[JWU42]

With some of the probs at abcpool I am jumping here for a bit.  So far so good...

Will have 6+ GH/s by the weekend

[Inaba]

We certainly welcome everyone!  If you guys have any suggestions or questions, I'm all ears.

[NetworkerZ]

Hey Inaba!

What are your future plans?

1. Stats page (daily, monthly, all time)?
2. Change of the pool software (i think it's called poolserverj) --> lower stale rate?!?

Btw.: is it possible, that there was a short downtime before ~26 hours from now?

THX & Greetz
NetworkerZ

[kwaaak]

This seems to be a cool pool

[NetworkerZ]

I can say: This IS a cool pool!

Greetz
NetworkerZ

[Inaba]

Hey Inaba!

What are your future plans?

1. Stats page (daily, monthly, all time)?
2. Change of the pool software (i think it's called poolserverj) --> lower stale rate?!?

Btw.: is it possible, that there was a short downtime before ~26 hours from now?

THX & Greetz
NetworkerZ

Stats page is definitely on the table. I haven't had a chance to work on it.  I started on it but then got kind of stymied as to what should go on there.  So if you have suggestions, I will make it happen assuming it's feasible. 

The switch to Poolserverj is something I'm looking at.  I'm not a Java guy (mainly do C) and I am not very good (and therefor dislike) OOP, so I'm having some issues with doing a PSJ plug in the way I want.  If anyone is a crackerjack at Java and wants to take on an small and likely very easy project, I would be willing to pay a small sum to have the plugin created that will handle the DGM variable collection and application on to users from within PSJ. 

As far as downtime, not really - what do you mean?  I may have restarted the getwork daemon around that time, I can't recall... but I don't think I did.  It would have resulted in a few rejected shares briefly, but that's about it.