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cuz0882
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March 08, 2012, 09:57:55 PM |
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It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.
Consider DGM like a capacitor, you build up charge in the beginning, and as long as you keep mining, you don't lose charge. Once you stop mining, you lose charge slowly and you get paid out even if you aren't "charging" the capacitor by mining, until it's completely empty. Isnt that what normal old prop / score does? In some sense, pretty much any reward system is similar to a capacitor if you stretch the analogy enough. But quantitatively, DGM behaves much more like a physical capacitor than other methods, which is why the analogy is more appropriate for it. Notably, in hoppable methods the effect of shares on the capacitor depends on the pool's history, so some times are better than others. It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.
DGM doesn't care about the pool's history. When you mine continuously the capacitor is at its full charge level (with some caveats irrelevant to the current topic). When you stop mining the capacitor starts discharging in a way that doesn't depend on the fact that 6.7M shares were already submitted in the round. What matters is not that you missed 20% of the block, but that you didn't mine for 1.7M shares, which with the current parameters is enough for your score to decay to the 40% level. Other hopping-proof methods are similar. The mistake people make is thinking that the proportional method is some sort of gold standard other methods should measure up to. It's not, it's just a broken method. Looking at the % of shares submitted in the current round is meaningless. Like I said its confusing. Even the eclipse FAQ section refers to making money off pool hoppers. DGM does not give you a less proportional pay out because you missed the last part of the round. Meni "DGM doesn't care at all when you started or stopped mining. It doesn't try to detect hoppers and punish them. It rewards each share separately, in a way that is independent of the past and thus does not offer any incentive to hop." |
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cyberlync
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March 08, 2012, 11:08:49 PM |
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Wow, 737 GH/s, highest I've seen here  |
Giving away your BTC's? Send 'em here: 1F7XgercyaXeDHiuq31YzrVK5YAhbDkJhf
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Electricbees
Sr. Member
 Offline
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
We are bees, and we hate you.
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March 09, 2012, 06:59:22 AM |
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Wow, 737 GH/s, highest I've seen here It's a mighty fine pool!  |
Donations are welcome!
1BEES19ds5gEnRBoU1qNFPfjRXe94trMG3
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Electricbees
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
We are bees, and we hate you.
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March 09, 2012, 07:59:27 AM |
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We found 3 blocks in a 2 minute period. I'd just like to draw attention to that Four-Second Block.
That is all.
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Donations are welcome!
1BEES19ds5gEnRBoU1qNFPfjRXe94trMG3
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Meni Rosenfeld
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054
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March 09, 2012, 08:11:12 AM |
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Like I said its confusing. Even the eclipse FAQ section refers to making money off pool hoppers. DGM does not give you a less proportional pay out because you missed the last part of the round.
Meni "DGM doesn't care at all when you started or stopped mining. It doesn't try to detect hoppers and punish them. It rewards each share separately, in a way that is independent of the past and thus does not offer any incentive to hop."
I agree that this FAQ answer is poorly worded. I guess it was intended as "relative to proportional". Proportional loses to hopping, DGM is indifferent, so cross-relatively, DGM gains from hopping - [(Hoppers in DGM - normal miners in DGM) - (Hoppers in Prop - Normal in Prop)] = [0 - negative] = positive. |
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woo
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
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March 09, 2012, 09:10:50 AM |
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Anyone else's earnings for those lucky blocks really low? (A little more than half)
No, I wasn't playing BF3, and my shares/total shares ratio was unchanged.
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ThiagoCMC
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
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March 09, 2012, 09:54:44 AM |
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Inaba,
How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!
Best!
Thiago
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Vbs
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March 09, 2012, 10:07:26 AM |
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This is a new reward system for mining pools, a hybrid between PPLNS and the geometric method which combines advantages of both. It starts with PPLNS-like low share-based variance without operator risk, and then allows the operator to absorb some variance to decrease pool-based variance (which the geometric method can do, but not PPLNS). It is of course hopping-proof - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. The variance and the maturity time (the time it takes to receive the reward) are independent of the pool's history and almost completely independent of future difficulty changes. The bold part really sums it well for me. People need to look at DGM like it's PPS, even if at first it doesn't seem so - because it's a "PPS" that gets delayed over several blocks. But it's there - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. |
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Vbs
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March 09, 2012, 10:08:21 AM |
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Inaba,
How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!
Best!
Thiago
Why would we need ScamCoins  |
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ThiagoCMC
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
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March 09, 2012, 10:13:09 AM |
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Inaba,
How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!
Best!
Thiago
Why would we need ScamCoins Because it is fun!!  And... Because this pool have it: http://mmpool.bitparking.com/poolSo, why we can't have it too?! Also, with P2Pool we can enable even more coins... Best! Thiago |
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Meni Rosenfeld
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054
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March 09, 2012, 10:34:17 AM |
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This is a new reward system for mining pools, a hybrid between PPLNS and the geometric method which combines advantages of both. It starts with PPLNS-like low share-based variance without operator risk, and then allows the operator to absorb some variance to decrease pool-based variance (which the geometric method can do, but not PPLNS). It is of course hopping-proof - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. The variance and the maturity time (the time it takes to receive the reward) are independent of the pool's history and almost completely independent of future difficulty changes. The bold part really sums it well for me. People need to look at DGM like it's PPS, even if at first it doesn't seem so - because it's a "PPS" that gets delayed over several blocks. But it's there - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. There's also some variance (caused by luck in future finding of blocks), not just delay. Of course, over the long run it should not be significant. Omelette du Fromage!
That's all you can say! That's all you can say, that's all you can say... |
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Vbs
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March 09, 2012, 11:12:09 AM |
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Inaba,
How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!
Best!
Thiago
Why would we need ScamCoins Because it is fun!! And... Because this pool have it: http://mmpool.bitparking.com/poolSo, why we can't have it too?! Also, with P2Pool we can enable even more coins... Best! Thiago The more different blockchains you mine, the more longpolls you are going to get, which is no small issue.......... |
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Vbs
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March 09, 2012, 11:14:53 AM |
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Omelette du Fromage!
That's all you can say! That's all you can say, that's all you can say...  You... got... me....  |
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TheOtherGuy
Member
Offline
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
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March 09, 2012, 01:26:45 PM |
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Wow!!! The luck the last six hours is amazing.
What is up with blocks 170170 and 170203 not confirming though??? 170170 was found 27+ hours ago.
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1NDoRoTapFZNiUhzTPyFdKib66QLJfmcuR
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Math Man
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March 09, 2012, 02:25:21 PM |
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Wow!!! The luck the last six hours is amazing.
What is up with blocks 170170 and 170203 not confirming though??? 170170 was found 27+ hours ago.
That's happened once before. I'm sure Inaba will fix it real soon. He's good like that. I can't believe I solved 3 blocks in under 2 hours. That's highly unusual at this difficulty given my hashing power. |
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Inaba (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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March 09, 2012, 02:52:32 PM |
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Should be fixed now. I have been making some major change behind the scenes to beef up security and pave the way for the new project/addition to the pool that I will be announcing soon and I inadvertently took out the validation processing for one particular server last night. Should be good to go now though, and going forward. Still more changes to come, but they are mostly behind the scenes so nothing should be noticeable for awhile yet.  Quite the run of good luck. As far as scamcoins, I'm not saying no, but it's unlikely we'll be doing merged mining for any of the scamcoins in the near future, unless I make some major break through in merged mining... NMC is already a giagantic pain to deal with. |
If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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GenTarkin
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
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March 09, 2012, 03:45:50 PM |
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WOW! Our luck sure has come back after those horrible blocks. This variance is INSANE! Broke our lowest share count 2x last night! 753 in 4 seconds then an astounding 600 shares! Holy crap, I think the record previous was something like 2500 or so shares.
Also, as far as the DGM stuff, I think of it in the capacitance sense, but unlike prop where the rewards is 0 after the current block, the capacitor simply allows you to potentially get rewarded across several blocks, till its drained.
Whats this new feature Inaba? Tell us! Tell us! =P haha
Anyways, this pool is sure exciting!!
Lets hope none of those quick ones are invalids!
I still need to find my first block damnit! LOL
OH HEY! Inaba, can you look into the payout transaction history list...the BTC payments , for me are no longer in order by date...they are all screwy, since a few days ago.
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cuz0882
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March 09, 2012, 06:39:49 PM |
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Anyone else's earnings for those lucky blocks really low? (A little more than half)
No, I wasn't playing BF3, and my shares/total shares ratio was unchanged.
I didn't get any shares on the 4 second block and very few on the other really short blocks. That along with the increased pool size probably caused it. |
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Inaba (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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March 09, 2012, 07:01:03 PM |
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Order of payout history should be fixed now.
I will be announcing the project within the next week or two.
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If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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hack_slash
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
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March 09, 2012, 07:04:47 PM |
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Something seems odd in the Block History for block #680 (170290), though it's probably just something I'm misunderstanding.
It says block #680 finished at 2:52:10, and corresponds to block 170290. Block #681 finished 4 seconds later at 2:52:14, and corresponds to block 170305. Were there really 15 blocks found on the network in that time period? Blockchain.info shows 170305 as found by EclipseMC (as expected), but 170290 is showing as found by Bitclockers. Any idea what's going on?
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