Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[soy]

The news are in Swedish so use google translate.
It shows kncminer new location in an old helicopter hangar in Boden not Luleå.

http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.545516/bitcoingravare-oppnar-gruva-i-boden
http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.545367/helikopterhangar-blir-datahall-i-boden

First post on this forum.
Hello fellow miners!

An airstrip suitable for Josh's plane there?

[1714160158]

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[bizzyb]

Difficulty is only going one way ^^^^^^^
No shortage of new entrants in the BTC hardware game.
Just spotted this too;
http://eligius.st/~gateway/products/hashbuster-alpha

[rolling]

It's good to see KNCs plans becoming more clear now.  Too bad they didn't just tell their customers what they were doing.  

They are building this data center to house 10,000 Jupiters and they will turn that hashing power over to Neptune customers if they can't deliver on time (highly likely).  If they can deliver Neptunes on time, they will sell the hashing power through their website instead of physical miners as soon as the data center is up and running.

The article said they are planning to build other data centers, probably to house the 20nm equipment, which will add to their cloud hashing inventory later this year.

The only questions that remains is pricing.  If they are like every other cloud hashing operation, it will be way overpriced.  They will still find suckers and the math-challenged to buy it, no doubt.

[padrino]

English article of the data center build http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/02/06/bitcoin-miners-building-10-megawatt-data-center-sweden/

Of course one thing that comes to mind is the commitment to not mine with more of 5% of the hashing power sold, this is an excellent way to side step that whole issue. Make the hosting offer to customers on purpose when the time comes, giving them a clean out moving forward. Good business from KNC's perspective.

[vesperwillow]

No, it really is garbage.

It's not perfect, but between September and January it was within acceptable range every time I checked it against my numbers, and I only looked at the 60 and 90 day projections. Looking back, that range was close enough to be called good. Hindsight. Not saying it's perfect for the future, but it's a decent idea, and more importantly it errs on the safe side.

Sure thing, buddy.

No need to argue anything, just go back and see what we said vs what happened. Or don't, because other folks in this thread who poked our eyes out over the past few months, have suddenly stopped doing so, and some of them got refunds afterward and I suppose tucked tail to save face.

They have made not one, or two, but millions of dollars.  I don't think stopping the train there is considered suffering by any stretch of the word.

Oh it's far more than just millions. Come up with a digit and then add 8 zeros to it.

But so? Who cares what they've done with their money /after/ it became their money. I'm more upset how they treated their customers (you guys) during it all, and the fact they failed to hold their word on key points--points which is what got them propped up to begin with. Network Protection, Modular Expansion, Taking care of their Batch 1 & 2 Customers.

Their hardware had a 900% markup on it. Nobody was complaining when they could order it, everyone was yelling "shutup and take my money". Jupiters' in-house cost is roughly a grand. I called that number before they even had chips in hand! Based it off of what I knew of PCB design, bulk ordering and assembly lines. Later on (December) found out that KNC's in-house value priced them at around a grand as well. Not far off am I? And I'm not the only one who knows their actual cost. There's some silent folks here who know.

Neptune I'm pegging at around 1,500 first batch.

*shrugs* You win some, you lose some. Sometimes objective analysis pays off.

I sure as hell didn't preorder anything with them, I knew the only "profitable" batches would be 2013 1&2, and nothing beyond that--unless BTC value went stupid crazy. A lot of the other 'smart sharks' in this thread made money mining and then sold the equipment and got out before the ship sank.

[dropt]

I sure as hell didn't preorder anything with them [...]

   I didn't either.  *high-five*

[ncs0ne]

Since when is the link 'shipping' on kncminer's website redirecting to the default page ??

After refusing to change the delivery address and now this, I get more and more the impression they do not want to ship anything at all.
 


snapshot from 2013
http://web.archive.org/web/20130822171043/https://www.kncminer.com/pages/shipping

[jelin1984]

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

[Every Day Junglist]

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..

[MrPresident]

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..

Jelin...you sure about that?
Firsly, the upgrade modules are for Saturns and Mercuries.
Do you have a six-port controller, or the skills to install the ports to a controller board?
I could be wrong....   but somehow my spidey-senses tell me no.
....and by the time you disassemble everything(losing hashing time), drop it at the
local electronics store to pay someone to do it correctly...  
You could lose several days of hashing time just waiting to pick up your controller board...(as the diff rises)
inn which case, you would be hard-pressed to ever make ROI on what it actually costed you to get them working on the Jupiter.
and if you try it yourself...  you risk the entire controller board not working, one mess-up, and no RMA.... then what?
You could be down for a long time trying to purchase another controller board.
It's best suited for Saturn and Mercury owners, who would like to upgrade.
Unless you have excellent soldering skills, or outrageous luck, I'd re-evaluate the idea.

[dropt]

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..

Jelin...you sure about that?
Firsly, the upgrade modules are for Saturns and Mercuries.
Do you have a six-port controller, or the skills to install the ports to a controller board?
I could be wrong....   but somehow my spidey-senses tell me no.
....and by the time you disassemble everything(losing hashing time), drop it at the
local electronics store to pay someone to do it correctly...  
You could lose several days of hashing time just waiting to pick up your controller board...(as the diff rises)
inn which case, you would be hard-pressed to ever make ROI on what it actually costed you to get them working on the Jupiter.
and if you try it yourself...  you risk the entire controller board not working, one mess-up, and no RMA.... then what?
You could be down for a long time trying to purchase another controller board.
It's best suited for Saturn and Mercury owners, who would like to upgrade.
Unless you have excellent soldering skills, or outrageous luck, I'd re-evaluate the idea.

Somehow my spidey-senses tell me you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Biodom]

Wall Street Jornal piece shows that KnC made 15mil profit on 75 mil in sales last year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/06/cold-virtual-cash-a-bitcoin-mining-center-for-sweden/
These are strange figures because they collected 28-34 mil on preorders, but hardly expensed anything yet on Neptune. If it is so, then they were $20 mil "in the hole' before collecting Neptune preorders. Alternatively, they were probably already in the black with Jupiters and then used at least half of Neptune money to make a prepayment or payment on the datacenter and/or unreleased Jupiters.

If it is so, it would mean that  plan B was their original intention all along.
I will wait until i hear about hosting arrangements, then decide.

[MrPresident]

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..

Jelin...you sure about that?
Firsly, the upgrade modules are for Saturns and Mercuries.
Do you have a six-port controller, or the skills to install the ports to a controller board?
I could be wrong....   but somehow my spidey-senses tell me no.
....and by the time you disassemble everything(losing hashing time), drop it at the
local electronics store to pay someone to do it correctly...  
You could lose several days of hashing time just waiting to pick up your controller board...(as the diff rises)
inn which case, you would be hard-pressed to ever make ROI on what it actually costed you to get them working on the Jupiter.
and if you try it yourself...  you risk the entire controller board not working, one mess-up, and no RMA.... then what?
You could be down for a long time trying to purchase another controller board.
It's best suited for Saturn and Mercury owners, who would like to upgrade.
Unless you have excellent soldering skills, or outrageous luck, I'd re-evaluate the idea.

Somehow my spidey-senses tell me you have no idea what you're talking about.

care to give reasons why?
that's just a smart-ass remark ... with no substance.

which part doesn't jive?
You are saying you would recommend to the owner of a 4 port Jupiter, who has no experience soldering, to attach 2 more ports?
Or that upgrade cards weren't meant for Saturn or Mercury owners?
or that it's a snap to get a new controller board if you fuck-up?
please... empty remarks are useless other than to annoy people.
You could at least say why you feel that way.

[soy]

so, plan B is some compensation for delay but there's no mention of ROI.

[Biomech]

TGB's 60 and 90 day estimates aren't garbage, they've done fairly well over the last few months. Back in September it was showing about a billion for January, and that wasn't far off.

So far, the people saying things like this are also the same people who got everything else wrong in this thread. Meanwhile myself, Avenger, and our non-english speaking friend, have had really great projections and speculation-come-true.

Bitcoin works well at $10 or $100? What does that matter? I'm sure it would work well at $1,000,000 also. Sounds like some folks are just upset and want hardware makers to suffer.

TGB works good for short term, but it (at least historically) continues to extrapolate an exponential increase in hashrate over the longer term. I haven't used that calc in several months, so this may be old news.

However, when it was first used to generate a lot of FUD, it showed such. That has already tapered off. What we'll likely see in coming months is a number of spikes where it goes up by a lot, followed by a small climb for a couple of diff periods. Then it will taper off. The problem, of course, is predicting how those spikes and valleys will happen. This is essentially impossible in the long term, and this is not solely a bitcoin problem. We know who the major players are, but there is a lot of interest in building and disseminating hashpower. Ultimately it will come down to the mix of exchange rate and electric costs.

Which seems to me to be a great opportunity, one I'm going to pursue. Off grid power generation is going to become necessary to the mining community sooner rather than later, or else a great many of these machines are indeed NOT going to achieve positive ROI in the not too distant future. Even if you, like me, don't care whether that ROI is bitcoin or fiat or gold or fucking cows. Yet if you could generate your own power, the useful life of the machines becomes indefinite, rather than extremely finite. I've long been interested in small scale power generation anyway. I have some interesting ideas along those lines, and when I get them firmed up a little better I'll start a thread regarding that. Not sure what subforum it should be on, though

On topic, I suspect that this hosting facility of KNCs is going to be a PR disaster for them. I think they would have been smarter to just do it quietly, sell Jupiters, and be up front about any delays. I think such a center would be good for the network as a whole, as it would put a cramp on CEX and force them to be more competitive in their share prices, plus leading just generally to more competition in cloud mining. But they way they appear to be doing this is, frankly, stupid.

[MrPresident]

so, plan B is some compensation for delay but there's no mention of ROI.

Why, should there be? 
The way I see it...  you are gambling, and you want the house to guarantee a win?

[opentoe]

So, you guys wouldn't take 3Th/s of hosted cloud-hashing say, next month, as opposed to waiting until the end of Q2 for a physical Neptune?  I would, in a heartbeat. Everyone wins that way. It would definitely work in everyone's favor considering the alternatives.

Yes, great plan.  Let's put near complete control of 20PH of hardware into KnC's hands.  The brilliance from your greed is impressive.

Greed?
That's ridiculous. Cutting your losses is't greed, it's investment strategy. You may feel comfy with waiting until the end of July for 3 TH/s, but some of us don't. I have no idea how you get "greed" out of a customer deciding he would take 3Th/s now, over 3Th/s later. Any other decision would be utter stupidity IMHO. Seems to me, if Neptune is going to be later than expected, than you really have two choices... 1. Take the cloud-hashing offer when it comes.  or 2......   Don't.  You will, and you know it. If you decide not to, I'll shoot you my btc address, just have them send it to me, lol...  Then you can take over when your precious machine arrives. The whole premise of refusing a cloud-hashing offer over waiting 3 to 4 more months for a Neptune doesn't sound like you have 3 marbles left to rattle upstairs...
I think it was VERY thoughtful and skill-ful of KNC to cover our asses with cloudhosting, VERY.

Damn, KNC really screwed people on this one. All you guys basically filled their wallets again so they can build a big hashing farm for themselves to make themselves even more money. Would of been prudent if they mentioned this cloud hashing power thing when sucking in the thousands selling Neptunes. I'd be quite pissed really knowing a product may really never even show up. Once KNC gets on that cloud hashing farm trip they aren't going to worry about Neptunes or anything like that.

[opentoe]

Think again. $40k gets you 5 TH delivered next week. By the time you get the Neptunes, difficulty will be much higher. 5 TH now is far more profitable than 12 TH several months from now.

5th next week? Who sells them?

25+ Antminers from Bitmain.
https://www.bitmaintech.com/product.htm

3th of Antminers = 5kw (by taking 300watts per Antminer) = 31.654BTC (without shipping) = 25.8k $
3th of Neptunes = 2.5kw = 14.6BTC = 12k $

Two times more $$$ and watts for the same hash-power.

There is a really big difference here. You really can't even get a Neptune for at least another several months so why even compare right now?

All my friends requested refunds also for their Neptunes. In the bunch I think there was like 18 of them. Don't be surprised if you see some go on sale or we hear some news from KNC now. Once they see their very loyal customer base is dumping them out I'm pretty sure we'll eventually hear some thing from them soon. They only have one spokesperson here who isn't a sales person and can't really confirm on anything since all decisions are made by Sam. Only a matter of time we'll hear something. Once you are a millionaire and see possible money that could be yours leaving your bank account it starts to make you worry, no matter how much you have.

I predicted KNC would have to speak up, with all those Neptune refund requests they got nervous. The ONLY way to stop people from requesting more refunds is to offer them something else. Doesn't matter what it is. Just any kind of financial compensation even if it's true or not. They rarely ever announce anything...but seeing those Neptune sales turn around a bit they have to think of something. Kind of crazy this all comes and ironic this all comes about on the heels of many Neptune refunds. One way to stop it in its tracks, offer some kind of compensation. No real specific details, just a vague offer. Nice!!!

[The Avenger]

Wall Street Jornal piece shows that KnC made 15mil profit on 75 mil in sales last year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/06/cold-virtual-cash-a-bitcoin-mining-center-for-sweden/
These are strange figures because they collected 28-34 mil on preorders, but hardly expensed anything yet on Neptune. If it is so, then they were $20 mil "in the hole' before collecting Neptune preorders. Alternatively, they were probably already in the black with Jupiters and then used at least half of Neptune money to make a prepayment or payment on the datacenter and/or unreleased Jupiters.

If it is so, it would mean that  plan B was their original intention all along.
I will wait until i hear about hosting arrangements, then decide.

I keep asking where they are getting the money to building a datacentre, tens of thousands of Jupiters and still have cash left over for Neptune?

If they only made $15 million profit, all of that would not cover the cost of the 18000 Jupiters (my guesstimate is 18000 would cost about $18million @ $1000/unit). And there is no way they are risking their profits on this venture - they aren't stupid.

And if they are honestly going to "loan" these 18000 jupiters to Neptune customers if Neptune is late, they are surely going to build some more for themselves/byteminr to sell as cloud hashing? They have to for Byteminr. I threw around the figure of 35,000 Jupiters yesterday, meaning they would have about half as many for themselves as they "give" to Neptune customers.

Where the hell are they going to get $35+million from?

It's got to be the $44million in Neptune pre-order money.

Which would lead a person to believe:
1) They will have no money left after this, so Neptune will never be built. So 3600 neptune customers will become the first 3600 knc cloud hashing customers ("Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre", which is basically what they said in the latest newsletter).
2) They expect to pay for Neptune development and production costs out of bitcoin mining earnings. That is some gamble.

I think anyone with a Neptune order should be paying for a spy to keep an eye on the knc military complex and see if they turn on those Jupiters they are going to "compensate" the Neptune people with.

Because if they ass-rape-pre-mined them from, let's say, June, before they start handing out the 3TH compensation to Neptune customers in July, they will ensure the difficulty is so sky high that in July, 3TH is almost worthless, as the difficulty will have risen to account for all these machines already and knc will be the beneficiary. Anyone with an early October Jupiter knows how well you can do in the first difficulty period or two, before the earnings flatten out quickly to next to nothing.

People seem very casual about this.

[dropt]

care to give reasons why?
that's just a smart-ass remark ... with no substance.

which part doesn't jive?
You are saying you would recommend to the owner of a 4 port Jupiter, who has no experience soldering, to attach 2 more ports?
Or that upgrade cards weren't meant for Saturn or Mercury owners?
or that it's a snap to get a new controller board if you fuck-up?
please... empty remarks are useless other than to annoy people.
You could at least say why you feel that way.

Well for starters all you did was go off on some diatribe making a whole bunch of assumption about jelin1984.

How do you know he (or she) doesn't have any experience soldering?

\Who are you to deem what is meant for what.  If it was set in stone who the upgrade modules were for they wouldn't have been sold to anyone who came along.  Thus, KnC themselves made that a moot point.

How bad do you really think one can "fuck up" soldering on an idc header?  What, is he going use a blowtorch? It's not some piece of high density equipment with 0402 SMD parts.

Further, you start to pull some massive breakdown of some timeline you dreamed up as if you have some crystal ball looking into everyone else's reality.  Anyone who watches a 10 minute youtube video on soldering could solder an IDC header onto a PCB in 5 minutes.

You've hardly done anything that could be construed as constructive since you joined, what, yesterday?  What account did you drive into the ground and abandon before you made this one?