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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007355 times)
jimmothy
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June 15, 2014, 03:19:50 AM
 #34841

Again you are not a miner and you shouldn't give advice of how miners should act. I just demonstrated you that you CAN host 6Th/s at home without the need of a datacenter. You CAN'T host 6Th/s at home using rockminer miners.

You are limited to 1 and only 1 sp30 at home where as there are many different ways you could max out your home circuit using rockminers.

Besides 3TH/s today is worth 6TH/s in 3 months.

Quote
Secondly only US miners have access to low power costs. All europeans (like myself) pay a premium price for electricity and having the possibility to host the miner in a DC at $0.15/kwh is actually GOOD.

Not all europeans have high electricity costs and I'm sure you know that. Sorry for those of you who do, but mining is simply not for you.(long term at least).

Quote
All miners already own mining equipment and are very close to their electricity cap that's why a DC where you pay the same price as you would pay home or maybe less comes very handy.

You could always sell your equipment to someone with lower electricity costs and buy more efficient in stock hardware when you need to upgrade.

Quote
And sorry but any miner requiring 200w is close to useless when it comes to spreading the hashrate since the global hashrate just jumped over 100k Th/s  so that is pure BS.

6TH is useless compared to a 5PH immersion cooled monster from xbtec.

Anyways close to useless is still not useless. Keep in mind there are a few people who found blocks on their 0.33gh/s BE usb miners.

I think you know that most of the sp30s will end up in datacenters where as a large portion of rockminers will end up in homes.
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June 15, 2014, 03:28:37 AM
 #34842

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm.

Rogaz, sometimes you say something that encourages me to think you are a knowledgeable and insightful guy (forgive me if you are a girl)  and sometimes you say something really stupid.

KNC didn't make anybody pay for their NRE costs. People voluntarily entered into contracts for future delivery of a product (aka pre-order). This is no different that what Spondoolies is doing with the SP30.

Given the economics of bitcoin mining and the difficulty in raising finance for bitcoin related activities from conventional sources, it is often the only way to go. Like Guy said in the Spondoolies thread IIRC … 'we don't have 27 million dollars to finance 3 SP30 batches.'

No pre-orders, no SP30, no Neptune, no progress. There is a race on with bitcoin difficulty and there is no time to tinker around …

~L)L~

I think that you intentionally distort the comparison here. Spondoolies ALMOST have the Sp-30, they are 30-45 days away (maybe even closer) while KnC collected the pre-orders in November and still did not deliver until late June (at best), which is full seven months later. In addition, KnC played a clever mindtrick by saying that first batch will be delivered in Q1/Q2 (in some older documents or comments they even said spring). Calling this a possible Q1 product was an exaggeration because they certainly knew that it will NOT be done in Q1. I also find it appalling that they keep making these legalese tricks-like we are not consumers, for example to get from under the consumer protection in EU law.
Whatever they will come up with-good for them, but I will not play the game on these terms.

After the Jupiter KNC used all their energy and resources to their monster data center and that's why customers haven't received due attention or come out with another product or one working "Super Jupiter". Usually after 3-4 months a manufacturer would have another product out, but KNC didn't. They took the easy road, get richer and build a monster data center. KNC should make a public apology for shipping that hardware to people. If they were stand up they would have just given the customer back their money in BTC and some compensation. Not a box full of pieces of broken hardware.

completely agree...the 4 months off last year not shipping equip so we could 'hash' as they stated w/o competing against more PH was a scam...so rather then us getting equip
they got the 'supposed' equip 28mm we were supposed to get as modules....to make their giant PH farm

was an epic 'bait and switch' .they even got most of us to wait to get equip on the 'promise' modules were coming from nov till march ..so did not buy from compeitiors

selling miners to us is a 'sideline' due to the fact they promised Neptune....then imho BTC tanked and then they said 1 more time and offered Titan

imho they will not even offer equip at a consumer level after Titan it will all be 'virtual farms' due to the fact with $$$ they have from chip to farm they will have the
least expense to do so in the future...but the catch is they will always get the product (who's development paid for by pre-order) first to hash for their farms
it will work well for them unfortunately in my view

anyway thats how I see it...seems in bitcoin land there is a rush to 'centralization' for everything

live an learn (at least for me I always seem the last in line to go.."ohhhhhhh" as the light bulb goes off..then the obligatory 'damn it')

Searing

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RoadStress
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June 15, 2014, 04:54:46 AM
 #34843

Hey now, last year I ended up paying about $0,14/kwh averaged out over the entire year and I live in Taxland aka Sweden!

Sweden relies on nuclear and hydro power which is cheap. Even so a $0.14/kwh means that paying $0.15/kwh for colocation in a DC is equally the same. No loss there!

Quote
I'll tell my 4,4TH of S1s who are generating over 8KW of heat the sad news then, the Internet has declared them impossible Sad
Granted I have banished them to the garage since middle of may since they were starting to get a bit noisy!

You are an exception and you know it. I would like to see how many miners are able to host and cool 8KW at home. Not many. Especially US residents who are on 110V! Because jimmothy keeps reminding me about the US miners with their cheap power. It's a wet dream for a regular US miner to host 8KW at home.

You are limited to 1 and only 1 sp30 at home where as there are many different ways you could max out your home circuit using rockminers.

Besides 3TH/s today is worth 6TH/s in 3 months.

No. You are limited by your power circuit. Everyone has X W spare for mining. Filling it with SP30 would mean that for every W that they have free they can accommodate 2Gh/s while filling it with rockminers means that they can accommodate only 0.9GH/s. The obvious pick is obvious.

Quote
Not all europeans have high electricity costs and I'm sure you know that. Sorry for those of you who do, but mining is simply not for you.(long term at least).
Europeans pay a higher price than americans.

Quote
You could always sell your equipment to someone with lower electricity costs and buy more efficient in stock hardware when you need to upgrade.

Yes good luck shipping the big fat rockminers to anyone. I can justify shipping for 15 burnin avalon gen1 boards and you imply that anyone will pay a lot of money to ship 42kgs worth of 3TH/s rockminers? Good luck with that!

Rockminer gives those with an electricity cap as low as ~200w a chance to mine while keeping a competative $/gh. Spreading the hashrate instead of shoving it all in to datacenters.
And sorry but any miner requiring 200w is close to useless when it comes to spreading the hashrate since the global hashrate just jumped over 100k Th/s  so that is pure BS.
6TH is useless compared to a 5PH immersion cooled monster from xbtec.
I think you know that most of the sp30s will end up in datacenters where as a large portion of rockminers will end up in homes.

Besides the fact that you negated your own statement (yeah sure 200w rockminers will help spread the hashrate while there is a 5PH immersion cooled monster out there) I really wish that the sp30s will end up in datacenters and that a large portion of rockminers will end up in homes. I really do! Once the home miners will fill their power circuit I am sure that their next purchase in order to stay in the mining game will definitely be a SP30 or SP50 miner because of it's power efficiency since they will need to pay more for power and because of their construction which is DC ready. It all makes sense: keep power hungry miners at home where electricity is cheap and keep efficient miners in a DC where electricity is expensive.


iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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June 15, 2014, 05:23:43 AM
 #34844

Average electricity rate in US is .16  it can vary as low as .08 in Washington to as high as .37 in california and new york.

Source?
samsonn25
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June 15, 2014, 05:27:42 AM
 #34845

Quote
Now that's an unfair bet. Why the difference in power costs?

No it's not an unfair bet because many pay less than $0.1/kwh for home electricity but almost nobody pays less than $0.15/kwh for DC hosting.

Quote
As I previously said no normal miner and no big mining operation will buy 84kg miners for 6TH at ~6.5KW power requirement. I can host my SP30 at home, can't say the same about rockminer miners.

Normal miners have 50-2000w worth of hardware.

Big mining operations (50kw+) will not care about weight(shipping pallets is cheap) and they won't care 50% efficiency since they pay less than $0.05/kwh.

Sp30s are for those miners who are somewhere inbetween which is inefficient because you need to pay someone to host them.

Average electricity rate in US is .16  it can vary as low as .08 in Washington to as high as .37 in california and new york.  MIne here in PA is .16 total, you are looking at rate of electricity cost and delivery, etc.  This is total cost on your bill.




Most sources dont have the total cost.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/30/average-electricity-prices-around-world/

Add another .04 to .05 to the US for correct prices, for delivery,   for the transportation use of lines etc.
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June 15, 2014, 05:32:16 AM
 #34846

By US States:


http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a
jimmothy
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June 15, 2014, 05:35:18 AM
 #34847

You are an exception and you know it. I would like to see how many miners are able to host and cool 8KW at home. Not many. Especially US residents who are on 110V! Because jimmothy keeps reminding me about the US miners with their cheap power. It's a wet dream for a regular US miner to host 8KW at home.

I don't think he is a rare exception. Anyone willing to throw down $10k+ on hardware should have no problem upgrading their home circuit.

Quote
You are limited to 1 and only 1 sp30 at home where as there are many different ways you could max out your home circuit using rockminers.

Besides 3TH/s today is worth 6TH/s in 3 months.

No. You are limited by your power circuit. Everyone has X W spare for mining. Filling it with SP30 would mean that for every W that they have free they can accommodate 2Gh/s while filling it with rockminers means that they can accommodate only 0.9GH/s. The obvious pick is obvious.

Yes, but with rockminer devices you have the option to share an outlet with other appliances.

Quote
Yes good luck shipping the big fat rockminers to anyone. I can justify shipping for 15 burnin avalon gen1 boards and you imply that anyone will pay a lot of money to ship 42kgs worth of 3TH/s rockminers? Good luck with that!

Shipping in america is flat rate and shipping from china to america can be as low as $6/kg via fedex someone said.
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June 15, 2014, 05:37:06 AM
 #34848


That's what I was looking at. Are those not the actual rates per kwh?
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June 15, 2014, 05:40:05 AM
 #34849


These are average rates taken by the US governent for census purposes.  But they are not totally accurate as they include the wholesale cost and another expense, but they do not include the use of delivery line and another charge which is about another .04 to .05 that is not refllected in that chart.  So delivered cost is about .04-.05 higher. When the consumer get the bill.
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June 15, 2014, 05:41:37 AM
 #34850


not sure if this applies to you guys calculations.but according to my power co in upper midwest..they say my kwh rate is .086c
when you figure taxes and other stuff on the bill the real price per kwh is .15c

so look at your sources and figure accordingly

Searing

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June 15, 2014, 05:48:56 AM
 #34851


These are average rates taken by the US governent for census purposes.  But they are not totally accurate as they include the wholesale cost and another expense, but they do not include the use of delivery line and another charge which is about another .04 to .05 that is not refllected in that chart.  So delivered cost is about .04-.05 higher. When the consumer get the bill.

Meh that's a bit misleading.

Regardless, those stats are just averages and there are people with residential costs below $0.1/kwh and even more people who have access to commercial/industrial rates lower than $0.1/kwh.
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June 15, 2014, 05:57:53 AM
 #34852

There is less than 9 states out of 52 that have costs under .10 before the extra charges of .04 to .05, in reality the lowest would be Washington State around .12 to ,13 cents total when the bill comes.

Look at this bill for Industrial its .05 cents for the electricy  BUT:

http://www.sceg.com/NR/rdonlyres/8EC63040-9B5D-4D32-90BA-360835AE8B24/0/rate23.pdf
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June 15, 2014, 06:04:15 AM
 #34853

http://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/electric/commercial-and-industrial-electric-rates


Extra for customer service charge, Distribution charge, Reliability charge,  its crazy.
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June 15, 2014, 11:21:44 AM
 #34854

Day of Reckining 2: Neptune edition Cheesy


"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
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June 15, 2014, 11:25:03 AM
 #34855


Shipping in america is flat rate and shipping from china to america can be as low as $6/kg via fedex someone said.



Any source please?

All is Mine!

1H7LUdfx9AFTMSXPsCBror3RDk57zgnc2R
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June 15, 2014, 12:44:50 PM
 #34856

With all the KNC day of reckoning LOL from Avenger, Aren't the first SP30 machines (April sale) supposed to ship in July ?
I wonder if SP30 is shipping July 1 or July 31 ? Do SDT have chips yet ?

~ Two weeks now to July …


~L)L~
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June 15, 2014, 01:34:53 PM
 #34857

With all the KNC day of reckoning LOL from Avenger, Aren't the first SP30 machines (April sale) supposed to ship in July ?
I wonder if SP30 is shipping July 1 or July 31 ? Do SDT have chips yet ?

~ Two weeks now to July …


~L)L~
No problems there for Avenger... His real name is Neo, and he can bend spoons with his mind.  Cheesy


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June 15, 2014, 01:40:30 PM
 #34858

With all the KNC day of reckoning LOL from Avenger, Aren't the first SP30 machines (April sale) supposed to ship in July ?
I wonder if SP30 is shipping July 1 or July 31 ? Do SDT have chips yet ?

~ Two weeks now to July …


~L)L~

April sale was for August I think and had free shipping and was about 1000 bucks below the price for the current sp30 units on sale now
in september...this
was the first group buy i gather by spondoolies and they were shooting imho for market share..now that they have it that deal is gone
I think this group order was end of april till may 15th?

all I got...still better to buy btc then equip but these guys on this group buy should ROI OK...Now if KNC ships in july a Neptune at 10,131.80 with shipping ..well they may ROI too..but again buying btc if you HAD that option now would be a better choice but hindsight is 20/20

Searing



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s1gs3gv
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June 15, 2014, 02:24:13 PM
 #34859

Original price on the April Farmers deal ( 3 x SP30 ) was $20,995.
Today's price on 1 x SP30 ~ $5K

You are correct - the April deal was for August delivery … gosh that seems like a long way away from today. Is that Aug 1 or Aug 31 ?

Do they have wafers yet ? If KNC already has wafers and Spondoolies doesn't, who do you think is going to ship first ?


Yeah hindsight is great … we should have all bought BTC back in April when it was at $350. I sure hope those folks who pre-ordered in April and paid in BTC get their BTC back ...
Searing
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June 15, 2014, 02:49:37 PM
 #34860

Original price on the April Farmers deal ( 3 x SP30 ) was $20,995.
Today's price on 1 x SP30 ~ $5K

You are correct - the April deal was for August delivery … gosh that seems like a long way away from today. Is that Aug 1 or Aug 31 ?

Do they have wafers yet ? If KNC already has wafers and Spondoolies doesn't, who do you think is going to ship first ?


Yeah hindsight is great … we should have all bought BTC back in April when it was at $350. I sure hope those folks who pre-ordered in April and paid in BTC get their BTC back ...

they taped out on the sp30 around a month ago i think? something like that

it is what it is..but yeah been better off on Neptune (refund) and sp30 (not buy) and just get coin when it was 450 a coin...alas
hindsight is 20/20..

it is likely that if you did the sp30 and Neptune will roi (barely)....but likely last 'real' (i mean mega K $$$) I will spend on miners in 2014..in 2015 the madness will stop due to fear and lack of $$$
coindesk I think it was talking about megabigpower the big miner PH farm ..he says last year it was 2-3million to get up this year 20-30 million up front year after that will be 200 300 million and at some point big boys like IBM etc will get in...too small now btc is

anyway i'm paraphrasing do a Google on this..but alas my miner days are gonna come to and end..likely by 'barely' making ROI
well we who run around the park (buy miners) vs those who sit on a bench and use a bicycle message service to cut accross the park as we nap on a bench ..it all gets to the same place..more or less the same price...the main thing is you got BTC in some manner now
rather then 3 yrs from now...

of course we have all drunk the kool-aid....we could find someone as 'stupid' running ghash.io as the guy running gox and flush the works..but if that don't happen HOW we got the BTC will be a lot less important in the future then WHEN we got the BTC imho

Searing

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