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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008046 times)
smoothrunnings
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June 19, 2014, 10:46:08 AM
 #35141

There is an IC company that has or is in the process of completing a 15 or 14nm chip but it too isn't an ASIC or GPU design.

Ofc there is since the industry never stands still, only Intel (however their 14nm launches has been delayed) is currently moving over anything major to 14nm and they are usually 12-18 months ahead of the rest of the industry when it comes to production. Usually when foundries starts talking about a node you can be sure that their mass production is still 12 months+ away. Samsung will probably start their 14nm production next year, good luck getting access to their fabs for something like btc mining however. 20/16nm at TSMC/Globalfoundries will be as good as it's get for 2014/2015. The only opening I can see in that time frame iirc is that GF struck some kind of deal with Samsung on 14nm tech utilization, so they could be converting sooner rather than later. However converting a fab is not something that you do overnight exactly.

Also doesn't change the fact that for every new process node the costs have increased exponentially for RND while the gains in power reduction/performance increases have been decreasing. It used to be that you should jump on a new process node asap since you could offer a product with better performance metrics at a lower price, these days however it makes more sense to wait until the new tech has matured unless performance/density are your only concerns.

The whole argument has been about why you should go 20nm instead of 28nm when the NRE costs are higher while the cost  for performance x with efficiency y is the same on both processes. Currently it costs more to develop for 20nm than 28 while you gain almost nothing in terms of performance/$, this will change with time however when the process matures and price comes down for manufacturing.

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm. They could have offered the same kind of performance at the same price with a new better 28nm design and delivered it sooner, they wouldn't have filled up their orders as easily however since "OMG 20NM SO GUD MUST HAVE" mentality. In the long term KNC will be the winners since costs of 20nm wafers will go down faster than the cost of 28nm so they will be able to fill their datorhall(s) with higher density chips paying less/GH, and we paid for it pretty much.

Actually your incorrect about Intel being the only silicon manufacture of 14nm size dies. So get your facts straight! LOL

TSMC does 14 and 16nm for selected clients.  They want to go to 10nm by 2015.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1264668

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June 19, 2014, 10:50:35 AM
 #35142

My new worthless prediction (I'm batting .000, lol)...

After all of the 5 piece preorders are delivered (or maybe before), KNC will introduce a new product that uses more chips but is much more efficient. They're going to have to do this to compete with Spondoolies.

IMO, they are only shipping 5 board Neptunes because this was the cheapest configuration to get to the 3THs target. But my guess it isn't what they had originally planned nor what is optimal for the new ASIC.

There is some very compelling evidence that supports this hypothesis. But the most glaringly obvious is the single PCI power connector. They're not so stupid to design it to handle 420w. But they were compelled to squeeze as much hash out of each chip that they threw away common sense.

Remember "under promise, over deliver"? Yeah, not to so much anymore. The new motto... "We deliver dangerous crap because we're cheap bastards."

unfortunately you are likely correct on the above....man knc had quite the rapid slide to the other side so to speak...$$$ talk we are irrelevant now off to do the BFL way...find 'more' newbies..hope they don't read bitcoin talk or google before they buy knc stuff

Searing
 

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smoothrunnings
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June 19, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
 #35143

Just received this email now from KNC after asking them about the plan B.

From: Natalie [mailto:info@kncminer.com]
Sent: June-19-14 7:43 AM
To:
Subject: [kncminer] Re: Order # 17277

Hi,

We expect to ship to Batch 1 pre-order customers this week and to Batch 2 pre-order customers before the end of the month.
More news about this and hosted hashing will be released shortly.

Best regards 
Med vänlig hälsning
Natalie Forslund
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253
20
smoothrunnings
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June 19, 2014, 12:28:25 PM
 #35144

My new worthless prediction (I'm batting .000, lol)...

After all of the 5 piece preorders are delivered (or maybe before), KNC will introduce a new product that uses more chips but is much more efficient. They're going to have to do this to compete with Spondoolies.

IMO, they are only shipping 5 board Neptunes because this was the cheapest configuration to get to the 3THs target. But my guess it isn't what they had originally planned nor what is optimal for the new ASIC.

There is some very compelling evidence that supports this hypothesis. But the most glaringly obvious is the single PCI power connector. They're not so stupid to design it to handle 420w. But they were compelled to squeeze as much hash out of each chip that they threw away common sense.

Remember "under promise, over deliver"? Yeah, not to so much anymore. The new motto... "We deliver dangerous crap because we're cheap bastards."

unfortunately you are likely correct on the above....man knc had quite the rapid slide to the other side so to speak...$$$ talk we are irrelevant now off to do the BFL way...find 'more' newbies..hope they don't read bitcoin talk or google before they buy knc stuff

Searing
 

RELAX! LOL

Neptune's aren't even shipping yet so no one can do anything but speculate the hashing rate. Smiley

As for KNC's fuck ups it happens with every company, you don't have to be a bitcoin hardware manufacture to fuck up...look at GM (or was Ford) who built cars that caused more than 13 deaths, that far out weighs KNC's fuck ups for sure! Smiley
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June 19, 2014, 12:35:10 PM
 #35145

Updated the Difficultly vs Return chart.



Document with various hardware manufactures and estimated shutdown time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc&usp=sharing
smracer
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June 19, 2014, 01:20:37 PM
 #35146

If the purchaser of the Products (referred to as the Customer) accepts KnCMiner’s offer and connects to KnCMiner’s Mining Services, the Customer automatically accepts that these General Terms shall apply for the provided Mining Services and that the Mining Services provided by KnCMiner shall constitute the Customer’s sole and only compensation due to the delay of the Products and shall supersede and extinguish all prior agreements relating to compensation for the delayed Products.

From KNC terms and conditions.  If you accept the hashing while you wait does this mean you do not get double your order?

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jelin1984
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June 19, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
 #35147

Knc had a lot of confusing I think

We need something more clear
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June 19, 2014, 01:44:50 PM
 #35148

If the purchaser of the Products (referred to as the Customer) accepts KnCMiner’s offer and connects to KnCMiner’s Mining Services, the Customer automatically accepts that these General Terms shall apply for the provided Mining Services and that the Mining Services provided by KnCMiner shall constitute the Customer’s sole and only compensation due to the delay of the Products and shall supersede and extinguish all prior agreements relating to compensation for the delayed Products.

From KNC terms and conditions.  If you accept the hashing while you wait does this mean you do not get double your order?


That is a very very good point.....imho you are making

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Dachaeon
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June 19, 2014, 02:09:18 PM
 #35149

I just received confirmation from KNC that that cloud hashing offer replaces the second miner offer. You cannot have both.
samsonn25
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June 19, 2014, 02:10:35 PM
 #35150

Is the cloud hashing being powered by old Jupiters of new Neptunes???
lemonte
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June 19, 2014, 02:11:34 PM
 #35151

Knc had a lot of confusing I think

We need something more clear


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June 19, 2014, 02:25:44 PM
 #35152

I just received confirmation from KNC that that cloud hashing offer replaces the second miner offer. You cannot have both.

THAT'S PURE EVIL  !!!

No where in the email points you that selecting this "hash while wait" excludes you from the free-Neptune.... THEY intentionally let you fall in their trap....
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June 19, 2014, 02:28:54 PM
 #35153

I just received confirmation from KNC that that cloud hashing offer replaces the second miner offer. You cannot have both.

Can you please post their reply.... I cannot believe it...
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June 19, 2014, 02:38:07 PM
 #35154

Me too I do not believed it
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June 19, 2014, 02:43:42 PM
 #35155

Dear all,

When I ordered my Neptune miner with KNC last December, their web site clearly said refunds would be possible up to shipment.
See http://web.archive.org/web/20131203110105/https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners for the statement.

KNC has flatly refused my refund request. They are not honest, their word means nothing and obviously they are in a ride to screw as many people as possible.

I would like to file a lawsuit in Sweden against that company. Can anyone recommend a law firm in Stockholm that could handle this case?

Thanks.
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June 19, 2014, 02:46:05 PM
 #35156

Hi,

Yes, the terms and conditions indicate that if the hosted hashing option is accepted
then the two for one offer is no longer valid.

Thanks in advance,

Keith.


I just got this reply.  Unbelievable.

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samsonn25
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June 19, 2014, 02:51:10 PM
 #35157

so basically they are holding the Neptunes hostage, and if you cant wait for physical delivery and want the cloud hashing sooner you dont get the 2nd actual machine.  Thats FUP

Smoke and mirrors, with a carrot on a stick
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June 19, 2014, 02:58:47 PM
 #35158

I HAVE A FIRST DAY ORDER AND GOT FUCKED UP FOR ACCEPTING THE HASH WHILE YOU WAIT.

I ACTUALLY CALLED THEM TO CONFIRM THAT MY SECOND NEPTUNE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE OFFER.

FUCK!!!

THE SAY IT CANT BE REVERSED!!!!

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smracer
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June 19, 2014, 03:02:43 PM
 #35159

I HAVE A FIRST DAY ORDER AND GOT FUCKED UP FOR ACCEPTING THE HASH WHILE YOU WAIT.

I ACTUALLY CALLED THEM TO CONFIRM THAT MY SECOND NEPTUNE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE OFFER.

FUCK!!!

THE SAY IT CANT BE REVERSED!!!!

That is terrible business practice.  I almost hit the accept button and read the terms and conditions first.  Nowhere else does it state that you lose the 2 for 1 offer.  It doesn't even say it clearly in the T&C.  This is crazy.

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mvalley
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June 19, 2014, 03:06:12 PM
 #35160

I HAVE A FIRST DAY ORDER AND GOT FUCKED UP FOR ACCEPTING THE HASH WHILE YOU WAIT.

I ACTUALLY CALLED THEM TO CONFIRM THAT MY SECOND NEPTUNE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE OFFER.

FUCK!!!

THE SAY IT CANT BE REVERSED!!!!

Very not cool. I bet 90% of people will sign up for this without reading the T&C's. Basically you are beta testing their cloud, now.

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