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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012565 times)
Tigggger
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June 22, 2014, 04:58:03 PM
 #35641

They said will ship this week, do they really ship?

They are testing something now, check out the KNC Miner moving to third position today.  https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

5PH increase is like 1700 Neptunes

That public holiday couldn't have come at a better time for KNC.

Ship 1 solitary miner on the thursday (and not even to the earliest order) and then mine with everyone else's for next 3 days.

And yet with all the money that they are making, and the fact that not a single purchaser will get back the money they paid, they still felt the need to pull that shit with taking away the 2nd free machine.

Way to treat your loyal customers

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June 22, 2014, 05:12:38 PM
 #35642

Let me ask you something smarty pants. If the USD was to collapse tomorrow what would you compare Bitcoin too? Someday we are going to get this point where the USD and the American Empire is no more. So you need to stop comparing Bitcoin to USD at some point.

I suspect for the sack of it that the price on BTC will increase during once the bond market collapses in the next two to three months that you and everyone will stop whining. LOL




I feel screwed when I know that KnC's "hash while you wait" means forfeiting "Neptune two-for-one"!

KnC announced "hash while you wait" on April 8, saying first batch customers will start their cloud mining from early June and the last customer will hash in their data center around the last week of June. Now this is close to the end of June, and finally the Plan B arrived.

On April 28, KnC announced that "KnCMiner, the most trusted brand in Bitcoin mining, announced today that it will give every current customer who has an outstanding order for a machine from its Neptune line’s first two batches a free Neptune from its upcoming “third batch” of Neptunes."  I felt happy when KnC announced this, because it shows KnC at least tries to bring more profits to the customers (although, in fact, two Neptune still cannot reach ROI). To my understanding, this is a bonus/gift/giveaway from KnC, it has nothing to do with the compensation due to delay of delivery.

In the email I receved from KnC two days ago, I am notified to choose either "hash while you wait" or "switch to Titan". There was no terms saying that by select any of the options, the "neptune two-for-one" plan will no longer be valid. I read their T&C (convert.kncminer.com/terms/), the two options they offered has nothing to do with the two-for-one plan, therefore I signed up "hash while you wait", happily waiting for the cloud mining next week, first Neptune by the end of June, and second one in August.

Then I read the forum discussion, and I know that KnC actually use "hash while you wait" in replace of "neptune two-for-one"! I feel totally cheated and pissed off! How come KnC breaks their public promises, and deprive my rights by just giving some vague and ambiguous terms and conditions?

I use the online calculator for some maths: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator. (I set the difficulty increase 20%, power consumption 2.1kW, the rest parameters are with default values)

I spent 12999 USD on 3TH Neptune. With current difficulty, even if I start mining today, I can mine up to 6BTC before electricity fee exceeds the income. Suppose bitcoin price is 600USD, I can get back 3600 USD. There is still a gap of 9399USD!

If I receive a second neptune by Aug 31 (earliest estimated delivery date), then before electricity bill wins, I can mine up to 8.4 BTC together with the first neptune. This is about 5040USD in total. And the gap is still 7959USD!

"hash while you wait" has a max period of 45 days. Suppose I don't receive my neptune and therefore I use up all the cloud mining time, then I can get around 3.8BTC, equivalent to 2280USD. Of course, if KnC ships my first Neptune by end of June, then I only get 0.8-0.9 BTC while waiting...

So, even if I have both "hash while you wait" and "neptune 2-for-1", I can get maximum $(5040+2280)=$7320. The gap is $5679.

If I only have "hash while you wait" and one neptune, then revenue is $(3600+2280)=$5880, gap is $7119!

Now I can buy a 1TH miner for about 1500-1700 USD(e.g. http://www.lketc.com/goods/show-172.aspx  the dragon miner, one of the well-known mining rigs in China), and such mining rig is in stock and can be delivered in 2-3 days. With 12999 USD, I can buy up to 7-8 TH mining power! This is far more than 6TB that KnC can provide.

KnC said Neptune is to be delivered in Q1/Q2, and they make customers believe it refers to March/early April. Now it is the very end of Q2, and I feel disappointed.

KnC said the "hash while you wait" will be started in early June, and it is delayed, and I feel disappointed.

Now KnC will revoke their promises of give away a second Neptune, I am totally pissed!
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June 22, 2014, 05:23:16 PM
 #35643

Did you factor that difficulty increases every 13 days?

June 30 is estimated to be 17 Billion already.

In 5 months will be 90 Billion

Yes, every 13 days with a conservative(perhaps too much) 20% diff jump..the numbers actually showed him earning 24-26 BTC at most FOR ALL 4 NEPPYS by mid dec 2014, meanwhile I had one order that I refunded back in may, for about the same amount of coin. Really goes to show how hard Kfc stuck it even with the meager 3TH, my friend had his hopes so high based on Kfc's earlier track record boasting they will have 5-6TH each easy..i feel bad for him because 40kUSD to me is alot of money...

Good Luck to All
~Thanks for all your replies
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June 22, 2014, 05:26:22 PM
 #35644

Let me ask you something smarty pants. If the USD was to collapse tomorrow what would you compare Bitcoin too? Someday we are going to get this point where the USD and the American Empire is no more. So you need to stop comparing Bitcoin to USD at some point.

I suspect for the sack of it that the price on BTC will increase during once the bond market collapses in the next two to three months that you and everyone will stop whining. LOL


Libertarians are funny.
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June 22, 2014, 05:29:42 PM
 #35645

Let me ask you something smarty pants. If the USD was to collapse tomorrow what would you compare Bitcoin too? Someday we are going to get this point where the USD and the American Empire is no more. So you need to stop comparing Bitcoin to USD at some point.

I suspect for the sack of it that the price on BTC will increase during once the bond market collapses in the next two to three months that you and everyone will stop whining. LOL




I feel screwed when I know that KnC's "hash while you wait" means forfeiting "Neptune two-for-one"!

KnC announced "hash while you wait" on April 8, saying first batch customers will start their cloud mining from early June and the last customer will hash in their data center around the last week of June. Now this is close to the end of June, and finally the Plan B arrived.

On April 28, KnC announced that "KnCMiner, the most trusted brand in Bitcoin mining, announced today that it will give every current customer who has an outstanding order for a machine from its Neptune line’s first two batches a free Neptune from its upcoming “third batch” of Neptunes."  I felt happy when KnC announced this, because it shows KnC at least tries to bring more profits to the customers (although, in fact, two Neptune still cannot reach ROI). To my understanding, this is a bonus/gift/giveaway from KnC, it has nothing to do with the compensation due to delay of delivery.

In the email I receved from KnC two days ago, I am notified to choose either "hash while you wait" or "switch to Titan". There was no terms saying that by select any of the options, the "neptune two-for-one" plan will no longer be valid. I read their T&C (convert.kncminer.com/terms/), the two options they offered has nothing to do with the two-for-one plan, therefore I signed up "hash while you wait", happily waiting for the cloud mining next week, first Neptune by the end of June, and second one in August.

Then I read the forum discussion, and I know that KnC actually use "hash while you wait" in replace of "neptune two-for-one"! I feel totally cheated and pissed off! How come KnC breaks their public promises, and deprive my rights by just giving some vague and ambiguous terms and conditions?

I use the online calculator for some maths: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator. (I set the difficulty increase 20%, power consumption 2.1kW, the rest parameters are with default values)

I spent 12999 USD on 3TH Neptune. With current difficulty, even if I start mining today, I can mine up to 6BTC before electricity fee exceeds the income. Suppose bitcoin price is 600USD, I can get back 3600 USD. There is still a gap of 9399USD!

If I receive a second neptune by Aug 31 (earliest estimated delivery date), then before electricity bill wins, I can mine up to 8.4 BTC together with the first neptune. This is about 5040USD in total. And the gap is still 7959USD!

"hash while you wait" has a max period of 45 days. Suppose I don't receive my neptune and therefore I use up all the cloud mining time, then I can get around 3.8BTC, equivalent to 2280USD. Of course, if KnC ships my first Neptune by end of June, then I only get 0.8-0.9 BTC while waiting...

So, even if I have both "hash while you wait" and "neptune 2-for-1", I can get maximum $(5040+2280)=$7320. The gap is $5679.

If I only have "hash while you wait" and one neptune, then revenue is $(3600+2280)=$5880, gap is $7119!

Now I can buy a 1TH miner for about 1500-1700 USD(e.g. http://www.lketc.com/goods/show-172.aspx  the dragon miner, one of the well-known mining rigs in China), and such mining rig is in stock and can be delivered in 2-3 days. With 12999 USD, I can buy up to 7-8 TH mining power! This is far more than 6TB that KnC can provide.

KnC said Neptune is to be delivered in Q1/Q2, and they make customers believe it refers to March/early April. Now it is the very end of Q2, and I feel disappointed.

KnC said the "hash while you wait" will be started in early June, and it is delayed, and I feel disappointed.

Now KnC will revoke their promises of give away a second Neptune, I am totally pissed!

Talking about the possibility of collapse, honestly I have to say bitcoin's is higher than US dollar's in the near future.

I use the previous calculation to show why knc should not take back their previous promises. I feel disappointed because of what knc did, not related to btc/usd exchange rate.

BTC: 1DREAMcn1ELY1cSnNwrjRazGqfW1NyvLJu    DigitalOcean Reg: https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=bd7f576a880a
Coinbase: http://bit.ly/1jc0dpQ
Cloud Hashing: https://www.hashyun.com/?f=u86
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June 22, 2014, 05:33:42 PM
 #35646

Apologies if this was answered previously, I'm very far behind on this thread.

From what I've read a Neptune is 5 boxes and draws 2100 watts and each box has 1 PCI-e 6-pin power cable, that means that each single power cable is 420 watts, when a 6-pin is rated at 75 watts.  I know I've been running a November board and October boards at 190 to 200 watts on a single cable, and they get warm.... is there some mistake about the 1 PCI-e cable to power a 420 watt chip???
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June 22, 2014, 05:45:13 PM
 #35647

Apologies if this was answered previously, I'm very far behind on this thread.

From what I've read a Neptune is 5 boxes and draws 2100 watts and each box has 1 PCI-e 6-pin power cable, that means that each single power cable is 420 watts, when a 6-pin is rated at 75 watts.  I know I've been running a November board and October boards at 190 to 200 watts on a single cable, and they get warm.... is there some mistake about the 1 PCI-e cable to power a 420 watt chip???

Technically the Neptune's boxes draw a total of ~1900W if you factor in AC/DC efficiency.  Molex's PCI-E keyed parts are rated for 8A per pin, so ~24A.  Which, at 12V gives you a rated operational power level of 288W.  However, in reality when you load things 24/7 you should de-rate them by 80%, so really any competent EE would not have these connectors drawing over ~230W (~19A @ 12V) in this type of application.  Now, we don't know the part number of the plug that KnC used, and some of Molex's Mini-fit Jr plugs handle up to 13A a pin which would allow ~468W running at their rating.  De-rate that and you're at ~375W which is just shy of each cubes ~380W draw.

TL;DR: There's 1 PCI-E cable per box, so yes: shitty Engineering.
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June 22, 2014, 05:53:28 PM
 #35648

Apologies if this was answered previously, I'm very far behind on this thread.

From what I've read a Neptune is 5 boxes and draws 2100 watts and each box has 1 PCI-e 6-pin power cable, that means that each single power cable is 420 watts, when a 6-pin is rated at 75 watts.  I know I've been running a November board and October boards at 190 to 200 watts on a single cable, and they get warm.... is there some mistake about the 1 PCI-e cable to power a 420 watt chip???

Technically the Neptune's boxes draw a total of ~1900W if you factor in AC/DC efficiency.  Molex's PCI-E keyed parts are rated for 8A per pin, so ~24A.  Which, at 12V gives you a rated operational power level of 288W.  However, in reality when you load things 24/7 you should de-rate them by 80%, so really any competent EE would not have these connectors drawing over ~230W (~19A @ 12V) in this type of application.  Now, we don't know the part number of the plug that KnC used, and some of Molex's Mini-fit Jr plugs handle up to 13A a pin which would allow ~468W running at their rating.  De-rate that and you're at ~375W which is just shy of each cubes ~380W draw.

TL;DR: There's 1 PCI-E cable per box, so yes: shitty Engineering.
They just don´t give a shit, as their main deployment of these devices will be their DCs.

With an ambient air temperature of ~0°C-15°C (depending on time of year) they are quite sure that THEIR connectors won´t overheat.

Now, i would be careful to run these at 30-35°C ambient temperature, as the wires will more easily start electrical fires then.



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June 22, 2014, 05:59:23 PM
 #35649

Apologies if this was answered previously, I'm very far behind on this thread.

From what I've read a Neptune is 5 boxes and draws 2100 watts and each box has 1 PCI-e 6-pin power cable, that means that each single power cable is 420 watts, when a 6-pin is rated at 75 watts.  I know I've been running a November board and October boards at 190 to 200 watts on a single cable, and they get warm.... is there some mistake about the 1 PCI-e cable to power a 420 watt chip???

Technically the Neptune's boxes draw a total of ~1900W if you factor in AC/DC efficiency.  Molex's PCI-E keyed parts are rated for 8A per pin, so ~24A.  Which, at 12V gives you a rated operational power level of 288W.  However, in reality when you load things 24/7 you should de-rate them by 80%, so really any competent EE would not have these connectors drawing over ~230W (~19A @ 12V) in this type of application.  Now, we don't know the part number of the plug that KnC used, and some of Molex's Mini-fit Jr plugs handle up to 13A a pin which would allow ~468W running at their rating.  De-rate that and you're at ~375W which is just shy of each cubes ~380W draw.

TL;DR: There's 1 PCI-E cable per box, so yes: shitty Engineering.

Also most psu 6/8 pin pci-e wires are 18awg instead of 16awg.
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June 22, 2014, 06:26:42 PM
 #35650

This shit is crazy.... It really looks like they are mining with our machines RIGHT NOW.
I can think of no other way that hashpower could possibly magically appear
https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=48hrs


Looks like a BFL replay...   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=659828.0
The drama of it all....  Holy Swashbucklers.


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June 22, 2014, 06:32:48 PM
 #35651

Gonna be biggest diff jump yet?
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June 22, 2014, 06:38:05 PM
 #35652

Gonna be biggest diff jump yet?

There was a 46% jump in October
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June 22, 2014, 06:45:45 PM
 #35653

no others got an neptun here?

elenenen =orama?
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June 22, 2014, 06:54:49 PM
 #35654

Apologies if this was answered previously, I'm very far behind on this thread.

From what I've read a Neptune is 5 boxes and draws 2100 watts and each box has 1 PCI-e 6-pin power cable, that means that each single power cable is 420 watts, when a 6-pin is rated at 75 watts.  I know I've been running a November board and October boards at 190 to 200 watts on a single cable, and they get warm.... is there some mistake about the 1 PCI-e cable to power a 420 watt chip???

Technically the Neptune's boxes draw a total of ~1900W if you factor in AC/DC efficiency.  Molex's PCI-E keyed parts are rated for 8A per pin, so ~24A.  Which, at 12V gives you a rated operational power level of 288W.  However, in reality when you load things 24/7 you should de-rate them by 80%, so really any competent EE would not have these connectors drawing over ~230W (~19A @ 12V) in this type of application.  Now, we don't know the part number of the plug that KnC used, and some of Molex's Mini-fit Jr plugs handle up to 13A a pin which would allow ~468W running at their rating.  De-rate that and you're at ~375W which is just shy of each cubes ~380W draw.

TL;DR: There's 1 PCI-E cable per box, so yes: shitty Engineering.

Also most psu 6/8 pin pci-e wires are 18awg instead of 16awg.

I had a gander at the minifit jr. product specifications and even for the HCS pins/connnectors the max is only 13A for single row housings.  When you make double row housings like on a PCIe connector (2x3) the rated current goes down to 11A on 16AWG wiring.  Less so for smaller gauge wire.    Found here: http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ps/PS-45750-001.pdf

I just don't think I would want to run that out of spec 24/7/365.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
crashoveride54902
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June 22, 2014, 07:21:00 PM
 #35655

i find it funny that everyone is so surprised knc did everyone like they did...can you blame them? could you keep greed monster at bay to be loyal to your customers? i doubt it...then ya say well they'll lose all their customers...don't think their worried about that when they now have their own farm and don't need us anymore...this will happen to all asic companies...greed monster always wins and customers always lose...soon it'll be centralized currency and then poof there goes bitcoin....and all the asic companies will shoot themselves in the foot...but not before making out like bandits so i guess they really won't care about that...imho

well it'll be great to see the ddos'ers go after knc now if they do...and if they don't well maybe its knc who is doing the attacks lmao

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
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June 22, 2014, 07:27:10 PM
 #35656

This shit is crazy.... It really looks like they are mining with our machines RIGHT NOW.
I can think of no other way that hashpower could possibly magically appear

Looks like a BFL replay...   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=659828.0
The drama of it all....  Holy Swashbucklers.

There is nothing magical about it.

They had atleast the same number of miners on order than the amount they presold.

As more than half of their customers refunded, they now have atleast 9PH ready to deploy.



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faetos
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June 22, 2014, 07:31:15 PM
 #35657

This shit is crazy.... It really looks like they are mining with our machines RIGHT NOW.
I can think of no other way that hashpower could possibly magically appear
https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=48hrs


Looks like a BFL replay...   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=659828.0
The drama of it all....  Holy Swashbucklers.


Kudos to the folks at blockchain.info for putting all that together and figuring out who was who. They've always been mining but they would show up as the Known Other which was close to 40% before they broke it out out recently. So, what it doesn't show is the hashrate that KnC might be using on those other pools if they are using that. However, considering how greedy those bastards are they probably don't want to share anything with some lowly pool. They have no image to protect nor do they care either.
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June 22, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
 #35658

This shit is crazy.... It really looks like they are mining with our machines RIGHT NOW.
I can think of no other way that hashpower could possibly magically appear
https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=48hrs
http://i.imgur.com/nZ1gpav.png

Looks like a BFL replay...   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=659828.0
The drama of it all....  Holy Swashbucklers.


Kudos to the folks at blockchain.info for putting all that together and figuring out who was who. They've always been mining but they would show up as the Known Other which was close to 40% before they broke it out out recently. So, what it doesn't show is the hashrate that KnC might be using on those other pools if they are using that. However, considering how greedy those bastards are they probably don't want to share anything with some lowly pool. They have no image to protect nor do they care either.

KnC came from the banking industry and they behave like a bank with all that small print, email offers, etc.
For a bank your deposit is a liability (it is called that-surprisingly). Bank uses the deposit sum to make loans that are a multiple of your deposit, or buy 10Xtreasuries=40% per year for them. Same for KnC-your orders are KnC liabilities, so they use your preorder cash and order a multiple of Neptunes (chips), then they give you back as little as possible, while using the rest for themselves and by doing so, undermine your profit. Nice business model if you can maintain it-but you just CAN'T.
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June 22, 2014, 07:39:17 PM
 #35659

pretty sure it was the weekly pool report that figured evwryth6ing out over the last while, they have slowly been figuring it all out.

I even helped them fill in a blank at one point a few months ago.

 http://organofcorti.blogspot.nl/?m=1
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June 22, 2014, 09:28:09 PM
 #35660

Here is a datasheet for a typical remote diode temperature management/fan control IC.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm96063.pdf

Note: "The LM96063 is remote diode temperature sensors with integrated fan control that includes remote diode sensing. The LM96063 accurately measures: (1) its own temperature and (2) the temperature of a diode- connected transistor, such as a 2N3904, or a thermal diode commonly found on Computer Processors, Graphics Processor Units (GPU) and other ASIC's."

These type of devices typically integrate with an on die thermal diode.

On the issue of BRM46x thermal design constraints, the spec says 125 C. Not 100 C, not 105 C. Looking at the data sheet, it looks like the device temperature is reported via the PMBus and may also be subject to configuration via a configuration file:

"This product is designed with a digital control circuit. The control circuit uses a configuration file which determines the functionality and performance of the product. The Electrical Specification table shows parameter values of functionality and performance with the default configuration file, unless otherwise specified. The default configuration file is designed to fit most application needs with focus on high efficiency. If different characteristics are required it is possible to change the configuration file to optimize certain performance characteristics. Note that current sharing operation requires changed configuration file. See application notes AN307 for further information."

Is anyone having problems with Neptune's shutting down due to thermal issues or is this yet more FUD being spread by haters and envious ne'er do wells towards KNC ?


Thanks for the information on the LM96063 and pointing out facts throughout this thread. I work with equipment where I can measure temperatures 100s of yards away so I don't understand why anyone would thing a small IC on the side of a board is not capable of reading temperatures directly inside an ASIC several inches away. The more I investigate and sift through the postings of people who don't really know the more comfortable I am feeling with the Neptune.

I have no doubt that a better heat sinking arrangement for the VRMs is in the works or could be made. At the least it's an easy thing to modify and I'll get my 12 year old (because of smaller fingers and  better eyes) to take care of it for me. Based on the specs I would like to see temperatures maintained below 100 and preferably 80 to 90 degrees C on the hottest VRM.
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