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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3009253 times)
Minor Miner
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August 03, 2013, 04:32:29 PM
 #4901

and 3 months ago, KnC was an idea to "make lots of money".
No, three months ago you found out about their plan when they went public. We don't in fact know how long this has been in planning behind the scenes, but probably at least since January, and even more likely into 2012. By the time we heard about it, things were already at a very advanced stage we must assume, for they already by then had a deal with Orsoc, which we heard about almost immediately after, and such deals take time to organize, communicate and get done, and they also had in place their design which was nearly ready to tape out, and they'd already planned their Mars miner which they executed in less than 6 weeks into a running miner, which is fairly impressive.

I have to balk at your assertion that 3 months ago KNC was a twinkle in someone's eye. This company has done an unknown amount of planning and work prior to their public debut, and we probably won't hear the retrospective on that until after they ship the first gen and have breathing room to do interviews and throw parties and the like.
Read back on when they made the deal with OrSoc.  it was AFTER their "poll".   So, if the "expert design firm" signed on a couple of months ago, do you still stick by your point of months and months of "advanced, behind the scenes, planning"?


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timmmers
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August 03, 2013, 07:14:11 PM
 #4902

final
any news about knc chips?

will be production these month or not?Huh?

is august
There has never been a mention of August production to my knowledge.


Shipping in Sept pretty much means that, unless they did a deal with Harry Potter, or their production facility also makes "Earl Grey, hot".

None of this matters now. There are 3 options. None of which we can influence:-
1) They are correct in what they say and deliver as they say.
2) They hit a snag and are a few weeks late...and take all the flak that BFL built up over a year for that one thing.
3) Total fail. Anything from being complete incompetents to a year of delays meaning that the machines aren't worth owning.

We are all in one of 3 positions now:-
You made a decision, you bought.
You're thinking about it still.
You made a decision, you didn't.

3 options for the above:--

1) Wait. Nothing is proven to be wrong yet. You have no reason to think they won't deliver.
2) Wait. See what happens and maybe jump on the next gen rather than be last in line and suffer from the massive hash power increase.
3) STFU and go wait for your BFL kit to arrive so you can auction it on Antiques Roadshow or  masturbate or something other than attempt to piss others off who made an informed decision knowing the risks.

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August 03, 2013, 08:27:27 PM
 #4903

and 3 months ago, KnC was an idea to "make lots of money".
No, three months ago you found out about their plan when they went public. We don't in fact know how long this has been in planning behind the scenes, but probably at least since January, and even more likely into 2012. By the time we heard about it, things were already at a very advanced stage we must assume, for they already by then had a deal with Orsoc, which we heard about almost immediately after, and such deals take time to organize, communicate and get done, and they also had in place their design which was nearly ready to tape out, and they'd already planned their Mars miner which they executed in less than 6 weeks into a running miner, which is fairly impressive.

I have to balk at your assertion that 3 months ago KNC was a twinkle in someone's eye. This company has done an unknown amount of planning and work prior to their public debut, and we probably won't hear the retrospective on that until after they ship the first gen and have breathing room to do interviews and throw parties and the like.
Read back on when they made the deal with OrSoc.  it was AFTER their "poll".
Pretty sure it was only -announced- / revealed at that point.

   So, if the "expert design firm" signed on a couple of months ago, do you still stick by your point of months and months of "advanced, behind the scenes, planning"?

Here's their 2nd post in this thread--they're already referencing having a hardware partner. It was already in place:

Sorry to be skeptical, but here we go again

New company springs up
no product or even product specs
shipping some time in the future
join the cue and only pay half price-what a deal

Thanks for your reply. I honestly can’t blame you at all and I think you are quite right. To make people feel better I will try to do my best to answer as many questions as possible.
First I will start by listing our negative points and then the points that I believe will help people
1.   We have only just opened
2.   We have no previous history
3.   We are taking your money in Advance
So to answer these issues I would like to say the following and please feel free to quote me.

1.   Yes we have just sprang up, everyone has to start somewhere, We have been personally mining for a few months and we want to be part of the ASIC wave which I think we can all say is coming in the next few months Avalon have already started and I don’t need to talk about BFL. 
2.   The hardware development companies we are using (names will become public shortly) have many years of ASIC and FPGA development behind them and we are confident that with their expertise we can produce and deliver when they become public so will there work and you can purchase there designs and see all the publicly available information on them
3.   Let me be very clear on this one our web shop is not taking payments for ANY products today at all. We will only open up for payments when we have some more significant specs to provide. We have opened up for registration only and so that when we do launch a product we will hopefully have a bit of history so point 1 will become less of an issue.

Things that will happen this week
We are going through Thawte to get a EV certificate so our website will be https to give you extra confidence. We will be constantly posting on our news pages of the progress we make in the next few weeks,
We are holding daily meetings with the partners and getting reports on progress on the development, we are faces with some challenges and some decisions that will be made,

We will use the voting section on our site to allow as getting feedback on things like power consumptions requirements and device size. Time is at the essence and we will take feedback and suggestions from anyone in this early stage to actually drive the development with real user requirements

ONLY then when we have enough stats and some hard figures will we launch the ability to enter the order queue, so before that day comes I would like to ask all the Secptics out there, to please comment here and reply. The more you ask questions the more I will try to produce something that will enable you to trust us. I understand that this need will disappear after we actually ship and everyone feel free to actually wait to place the order. But the more people that register the more our hardware partners will through resources at it and the faster we can get something that you can actually order and mine with

As for names behind the company I can give you two names today

Mine is Sam Cole and my college is Andreas Kennemar the company we hold together is called Kennemar & Cole Hense the KNC in the name of KNCminer our other business is an IT consultancy in Sweden we have a site called www.hitta.se you will find  us both on there,

How can you deny they had a deal in place with Orsoc before they went public with their plan? It's plain that they did.

Only later did we find out the name, Orsoc, and then we pestered Orsoc to confirm, they did, put a link up on their site, etc., etc.

I dunno if you guys are just tossing FUD or not doing your due diligence but this info's been there from the beginning.

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August 03, 2013, 09:13:21 PM
 #4904

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

Wafers are manufactured in lots (e.g. 25 wafer each). A Foundry normally gives you a committed cycle time for the concrete 28nm fab for a wafer lot. That time strongly depends on what priority your run got and which tech options you choose (e.g. how many metal layers). If they were lucky and got a so called "rocket" run it could be as fast as 30 to 45 days. Standard runs take between 60 to 90 days.

After that the wafers must be bumped (prepared for flip-chip packaging, probably at another facility), diced in dies and packaged in the flip-chip package. Don't know how long this takes exactly, but it could be easily "2 more weeks". Wink


Hypermega, thanks for that info. Any others with knowledge experience care to enlighten us further of Chip building??

KnCminer stated at the end of June that everything that needed to be order up to that point had been ordered. I wonder if this included

the Tape-out?

They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.

That would mean that KnC would need the "rocket run" in order to make any September delivery. IF the end of June statement

by KnC INCLUDED the tape-out, then a standard run will allow for Sept. 2013 delivery.

BUT no matter what, if delivery is to take place in Sept., the ASIC chip on board will have to be done before the end of August to have

any chance of delivery in September.

I hope we get a clue in the next two week as my order sits on the sideline until further news.
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August 03, 2013, 09:24:36 PM
 #4905


They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.


The reason they came in and posted that they had taped out was that a bunch of people in the thread were demanding to know why they had never announced that they'd taped-out, the way other ASIC companies had. As if the fact they hadn't publicly announced their tape-out meant that they hadn't done so.

So the reason they mentioned they'd taped out when they did is because that's when people started demanding answers about it.

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August 03, 2013, 09:59:49 PM
 #4906


They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.


The reason they came in and posted that they had taped out was that a bunch of people in the thread were demanding to know why they had never announced that they'd taped-out, the way other ASIC companies had. As if the fact they hadn't publicly announced their tape-out meant that they hadn't done so.

So the reason they mentioned they'd taped out when they did is because that's when people started demanding answers about it.

To be honest even if i now have 2.1 btc saying they will fail

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/#c1174

On paper (also they are swedish) it actually sounds and looks rather good

i.e

1) they have followed a process
2) know what they are doing
3) have not told never ending lies aka BFL
4) have known and respected partners (even though small crews)

so going by all of this you should bet YES @ bitbet...........and heres the but Cheesy

After 20 years in IT shit happens and I just think they have a small window for problems ~ 2-3 weeks at best ...so in a way my bet of NO should be getting 2:1 odds as if they are what they have made out to be then there is a good chance they can deliver as long as there are no major external factors

popcorn ready Cheesy

P.S Either way it will be awesome if they do deliver and really good for crypto & a nail in the coffin in BFL !!

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August 03, 2013, 10:05:35 PM
 #4907

Bitfury will be nailing the coffin shut of both BFL and Avalon, unless Avalon gets their shit together and batches of chips start arriving this coming week.  Actually, BFL is already pretty much dead and gone already, and Avalon is really close to finishing up digging their own grave.

I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.
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August 03, 2013, 10:38:50 PM
 #4908


I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.

Where did you see that?

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August 03, 2013, 10:54:44 PM
 #4909

After 20 years in IT shit happens and I just think they have a small window for problems ~ 2-3 weeks at best ...so in a way my bet of NO should be getting 2:1 odds as if they are what they have made out to be then there is a good chance they can deliver as long as there are no major external factors

popcorn ready Cheesy

Sure, shit happens.  But at the same time they've said they have lots of margin in their plan timeline to account for that. Unlike BFL they are not just assuming that once they have their chips everything else can be done "in two weeks"

Quote
P.S Either way it will be awesome if they do deliver and really good for crypto & a nail in the coffin in BFL !!

Especially since Josh himself said there was "no way" KnC would ship in September.

Bitfury will be nailing the coffin shut of both BFL and Avalon, unless Avalon gets their shit together and batches of chips start arriving this coming week.  Actually, BFL is already pretty much dead and gone already, and Avalon is really close to finishing up digging their own grave.

Unlike BFL, Avalon has actually shipped a lot of stuff with only a few months delay. There are some large orders of chips that have shipped already, and if the chips had good specs there's no reason why people wouldn't trust them again if they actually got their product the first time.

The problem is their chip specs kind of suck.  3-module unit actually has 240 chips.  A 1k order of Avalon chips is 780 BTC, and gets you 3.3Ghash @350Mh/s/chip.

That comes out to 0.23Btc/Ghash.  

On the other hand you can order completely functional KnC units at a rate of 0.18 Btc/Ghash (if you assume $100/btc).

With Bitfury, as well as labcoin, etc coming out with much more efficient chip designs Avalon will either have to cut prices drastically or have their 2nd gen ready.

Or they can just pull an ASICMiner and mine for themselves

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August 03, 2013, 11:38:52 PM
 #4910


I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.

Where did you see that?



I'm not aware of anything.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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August 04, 2013, 12:55:48 AM
 #4911

Having a dog in the fight makes it that much more fun to watch. Cheesy

BTCitcointalk 1%ers manipulate the currency and deceive its user community.
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August 04, 2013, 01:12:22 AM
 #4912

Bitfury will be nailing the coffin shut of both BFL and Avalon, unless Avalon gets their shit together and batches of chips start arriving this coming week.  Actually, BFL is already pretty much dead and gone already, and Avalon is really close to finishing up digging their own grave.

I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.
Bitfury are expensive, same price roughly as BFL. You will be hard pressed to make a decent ROI so late into the game at that price.


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August 04, 2013, 01:19:06 AM
 #4913

Having a dog in the fight makes it that much more fun to watch. Cheesy
Ha. Fun, and a little nerve-wracking. Hopefully these Swedes are on the up-and-up and know what they are doing.
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August 04, 2013, 01:27:23 AM
 #4914

Bitfury will be nailing the coffin shut of both BFL and Avalon, unless Avalon gets their shit together and batches of chips start arriving this coming week.  Actually, BFL is already pretty much dead and gone already, and Avalon is really close to finishing up digging their own grave.

I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.
Bitfury are expensive, same price roughly as BFL. You will be hard pressed to make a decent ROI so late into the game at that price.




That's the conclusion I came to when researching which manufacturer to spend my money on (via a GB)


Having a dog in the fight makes it that much more fun to watch. Cheesy
Ha. Fun, and a little nerve-wracking. Hopefully these Swedes are on the up-and-up and know what they are doing.

I know they're all crapshoots at this point, and we've seen the ugly side of the business for sure. But I'm happy with my $ going to KMC. If anyone can pull it off, it's them.

BTCitcointalk 1%ers manipulate the currency and deceive its user community.
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August 04, 2013, 01:47:47 AM
 #4915

Bitfury will be nailing the coffin shut of both BFL and Avalon, unless Avalon gets their shit together and batches of chips start arriving this coming week.  Actually, BFL is already pretty much dead and gone already, and Avalon is really close to finishing up digging their own grave.

I have lots invested in KNC, so here's hoping the technical release they are saying will be out next week is a good one and puts all this FUD to bed.
That came out a few weeks ago, in the form of engineering drawings of the board and the famous thermal photo of the heatsink debate.

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August 04, 2013, 01:48:20 AM
 #4916

Bitfury are expensive, same price roughly as BFL.

What math are you doing?

bitfury 400 = 8000
bfl 50 x 8 (400) = 19,992

Im assuming you are talking about the 25g starter kit but thats not really comparable since you are getting the ability to add more h boards plus a self contained mining board (pii).

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August 04, 2013, 02:34:11 AM
 #4917

RPi is about $40

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August 04, 2013, 03:20:59 AM
 #4918

RPi is about $40

24$ for the standard unit Cheesy

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August 04, 2013, 03:23:56 AM
 #4919

KNC is good - actually quite good - IF they can deliver in time + 1-2 months - if not then, Im again in deep s.
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August 04, 2013, 03:25:02 AM
 #4920

RPi is about $40

24$ for the standard unit Cheesy
No - they have USB problems - you shouldn't use them.
Only use a 512 B

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