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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008875 times)
Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 10:44:07 AM


I was following this last night when this story first broke;

http://www.bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

I then googled: Avalon 200 million

at the time, and surely their appeared associated news about another company called Avalon Ventures that had raised 200 million.

Then the WSJ ran with the original article, which was surprising as you expect their journalists to research thrououghly, but then the initial article was published on aSunday night, so who could they check with?

Another article appeared here;

http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2013-08-05/bitcoin-gold-rush-heats-up-with-private-equity-deal

and mentioned a web domain; http://phoenixasic.com Whois records that domain as being created two days earlier, on Friday, the site itself is nothing but an incomplete landing page with the Zurich address.

http://whois.domaintools.com/phoenixasic.com

A fake twitter account also exists for the supposed ex-Lehman's guy behind the deal, Andrew Larson. If you look at the posting history beyond the last three tweets the account looks less and less legitimate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/frankieterrier

Since the WSJ, and the other 'press releases' the story has gained some momentum and appeared on other sites, meaning any hoaxster has gone to and is continuing to go to considerable effort to spam.
Bitcoinorama,

The twitter account does have me perplexed. I don't twit, so I can dig deeper. And the name they mention is actually Andrew Laurus, not Larson.

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?

Haha, I haven't finished editing that post yet! I'm still digging around. Gut says it's BS with a troll that has put in some considerable effort to then see it snowball so is still spamming pr releases over the web. Sunday eve release meant journalists could not call and dig, so they ran to be the first to break...?


Bitcoinorama, I am digging too, and I am not so sure this is fake. I hope KnC has their stuff together because if this is real....

Check this link out to those who doubt 20nm.

http://www.techpowerup.com/173726/tsmc-seen-as-only-20-nm-asic-supplier-to-apple-in-the-next-2-years.html

and by TSMC.

Now as for the author at bitcoinexaminer.....not much info...but I notice that she if it is a she which I doubt usually credits the source of the story with a link in the article....but not in this case. Not sure what to think of that.



There's no denying TSMC are playing with 20nm, the fact they are doing this with Apple is old news.

What's odd is the time the news broke, a Sunday eve, so some journals have run without confirming sources,  the fake shill twitter account that speads fud about KnC for a guy called Andrew Laurus who checks out no where else, and is potentially the worst possible person to have connected with Bitcoin (ex senior gov advisor and Lehman's bond broker - the type of person Bitcoin was specifically created to remove from influence) a half arsed landing page for a site that bears aesthetically too much similarity to the lines drawn in banknotes and a domain created on Friday.

The only thing that made me double take was the WSJ, but they aren't immune to flakey journalism, if this is what it is.

Personally I think someone is trying to flush out Yifu and elicit a response, by causing enough FUD any real contact anyone has for him goes bezerk and he has to respond to question after question until he come's out of hiding from the public and put's the record straight on this, and then clearly the bulk chips issue which he has avoided addressing. I'd hazard a guess Yifu is putting his head down and is trying to deliver on his promises...

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August 05, 2013, 11:10:25 AM

This private equity type deal was bound to come sooner or later. I have money invested in several funds as part of a pension fund, some low risk, others high...trees for example. A 15% return over a year is a result for them. If they see bitcoins as something that they can get into now which will increase in value over 5 years (As I bet most of us think), they'll see it as a high risk high reward investment. 200 mill isn't a lot of money for these people, they aren't sitting in a bedroom hoping for ROI and worrying about power bills, they must see a massive return over a long time compared to other places they invest. For example, if they plant a tree to harvest the wood...that money is tied up until the tree is worth harvesting years down the road for lumber, unlike bitcoins which given the right hardware break even in a few months. Once they have their BTC they sit on them and happily wait for a price rise. There are other options with the mining gear once BTC become uneconomical to mine. If you think BTC may one day hit 1000 dollars..uneconomical now may be acceptable investment for the future returns.

Personally I think that there's a short window now where we can mine using our own gear, then it will become unaffordable and we'll be buying  shares in companies that can do it to scale...some of whom may be companies like these.

I saw a rig linked from an ad on here last week, could be upgraded to cost half a million and some loony hashrate...just for a minute assuming it's a real rig that will exist and be able to pay for itself like a KnC rig hopefully will...why would a company who can afford 10 or those not buy them? What other traditional investment can do that? It must have some speculators in high risk markets licking their lips compared to the long term stuff they usually deal in...and IF they see the value of a bitcoin hitting 4 figures in years to come like many people do...well we're going to see them arriving in droves.

IF that's the case, we're not going to see a dribble of rins with higher and higher hashpower..we're going to see hundreds of farms of these rigs arriving as soon as they are available pushing the network hashrate sky high. The manufacturers, they'll love it, no whiny forums to keep an eye on, no delivery, no currency issues, just one large customer you need to deal with. A customer who may not care about ROI short term because they are looking for a very long term return based on a huge rise in coin prices.
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August 05, 2013, 11:15:51 AM

Guys, Avalon venture != Avalon
Sometimes our reality distortion fields makes us forget that Bitcoin is a niche, If a VC invested 200 millions in a bitcoin company, it would expect at least 10x, where's the 2 billions exit strategy for any bitcoin miner right now?
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August 05, 2013, 11:18:19 AM

Quoting SebastianJu:

Quote
It's FUD. It was released on a Sunday night with a shill twitter account and a two day old site with a dodgy landing page.

Some journalists have been contacted direct and some have run with what they saw. None did any background as it was late in a Sunday night and they couldn't confirm, but the snowball produced by the hoaxer had gathered enough momentum by that point.

Surprised by the WSJ though. Andrew Laurus does not exist and for the record w.r.t the first article, Kim Dotcom doesn't follow him on the pseudo Twitter account, he follows Kim Dotcom on a shill twitter account that resembles a 15-year olds outbursts...

https://www.twitter.com/frankieterrier

Last time someone woke 'Yifu in the middle of the night' because of FUD he came on this forum to put the record straight. Someone with wayy too much time on their hands is clearly trying to elicit some/any response from Yifu so he steps out into the open at a time he's ignoring a lot of requests to do so...
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August 05, 2013, 11:20:23 AM

This private equity type deal was bound to come sooner or later. I have money invested in several funds as part of a pension fund, some low risk, others high...trees for example. A 15% return over a year is a result for them. If they see bitcoins as something that they can get into now which will increase in value over 5 years (As I bet most of us think), they'll see it as a high risk high reward investment. 200 mill isn't a lot of money for these people, they aren't sitting in a bedroom hoping for ROI and worrying about power bills, they must see a massive return over a long time compared to other places they invest. For example, if they plant a tree to harvest the wood...that money is tied up until the tree is worth harvesting years down the road for lumber, unlike bitcoins which given the right hardware break even in a few months. Once they have their BTC they sit on them and happily wait for a price rise. There are other options with the mining gear once BTC become uneconomical to mine. If you think BTC may one day hit 1000 dollars..uneconomical now may be acceptable investment for the future returns.

Personally I think that there's a short window now where we can mine using our own gear, then it will become unaffordable and we'll be buying  shares in companies that can do it to scale...some of whom may be companies like these.

I saw a rig linked from an ad on here last week, could be upgraded to cost half a million and some loony hashrate...just for a minute assuming it's a real rig that will exist and be able to pay for itself like a KnC rig hopefully will...why would a company who can afford 10 or those not buy them? What other traditional investment can do that? It must have some speculators in high risk markets licking their lips compared to the long term stuff they usually deal in...and IF they see the value of a bitcoin hitting 4 figures in years to come like many people do...well we're going to see them arriving in droves.

IF that's the case, we're not going to see a dribble of rins with higher and higher hashpower..we're going to see hundreds of farms of these rigs arriving as soon as they are available pushing the network hashrate sky high. The manufacturers, they'll love it, no whiny forums to keep an eye on, no delivery, no currency issues, just one large customer you need to deal with. A customer who may not care about ROI short term because they are looking for a very long term return based on a huge rise in coin prices.

Timmers the article is BS, or certainly surrounding evidence appears that way. Journalists are not immune to lazy journalism, especially in the age of the internet where upon the first to report get's the first share, which get's snowballed by sharing more increasing their reputation and 'delivering the news (FUD)'.

The other 'rig' you saw linked was Gridfinity, a supposed distributor for Hashfast, who came out on record stating his efforts of fundraising in $500k+ denominations had nothing to do with them (after confirming they were known to eachother previously). Shady marketing, sure, but not a huge success as people saw through it.

Not to say interest isn't gathering momentum, but the best thing for us miners is the ability to distribute the network far and wide, with competing companies offering worthwhile and genuine product offerings based on fair pricing, which is the way it appears to now be heading, finally...

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Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 11:20:57 AM

Quoting SebastianJu:

Quote
It's FUD. It was released on a Sunday night with a shill twitter account and a two day old site with a dodgy landing page.

Some journalists have been contacted direct and some have run with what they saw. None did any background as it was late in a Sunday night and they couldn't confirm, but the snowball produced by the hoaxer had gathered enough momentum by that point.

Surprised by the WSJ though. Andrew Laurus does not exist and for the record w.r.t the first article, Kim Dotcom doesn't follow him on the pseudo Twitter account, he follows Kim Dotcom on a shill twitter account that resembles a 15-year olds outbursts...

https://www.twitter.com/frankieterrier

Last time someone woke 'Yifu in the middle of the night' because of FUD he came on this forum to put the record straight. Someone with wayy too much time on their hands is clearly trying to elicit some/any response from Yifu so he steps out into the open at a time he's ignoring a lot of requests to do so...

You're not quoting Sebastian Ju, you're quoting me from Sebastian Ju's thread...Wink

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August 05, 2013, 11:29:47 AM

Quoting SebastianJu:

Quote
It's FUD. It was released on a Sunday night with a shill twitter account and a two day old site with a dodgy landing page.

Some journalists have been contacted direct and some have run with what they saw. None did any background as it was late in a Sunday night and they couldn't confirm, but the snowball produced by the hoaxer had gathered enough momentum by that point.

Surprised by the WSJ though. Andrew Laurus does not exist and for the record w.r.t the first article, Kim Dotcom doesn't follow him on the pseudo Twitter account, he follows Kim Dotcom on a shill twitter account that resembles a 15-year olds outbursts...

https://www.twitter.com/frankieterrier

Last time someone woke 'Yifu in the middle of the night' because of FUD he came on this forum to put the record straight. Someone with wayy too much time on their hands is clearly trying to elicit some/any response from Yifu so he steps out into the open at a time he's ignoring a lot of requests to do so...

You're not quoting Sebastian Ju, you're quoting me from Sebastian Ju's thread...Wink

Bitcoinorama, here is the author of this FUD....https://twitter.com/MJFerrSantos

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August 05, 2013, 11:42:23 AM


Bitcoinorama, here is the author of this FUD....https://twitter.com/MJFerrSantos



Be interesting to know, who is behind 'leaking' it to her, as they have been instrumental in creating a fake site, twitter account and getting the FUD spread far and wide...

That said, it goes to show how poor journalism become these days! Sad

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August 05, 2013, 11:46:08 AM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?

You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.

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August 05, 2013, 11:59:01 AM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?

You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.

is Sonny V not the old man which is sitting in the dust at that one picture from BFL. he has a plate with a Bitcoin address ( and "Will work for Bitcoin") in his hands. and a wire fence is behind him.

can't find this picture. it is somewhere on this forum.
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August 05, 2013, 12:19:01 PM

This private equity type deal was bound to come sooner or later. I have money invested in several funds as part of a pension fund, some low risk, others high...trees for example. A 15% return over a year is a result for them. If they see bitcoins as something that they can get into now which will increase in value over 5 years (As I bet most of us think), they'll see it as a high risk high reward investment. 200 mill isn't a lot of money for these people, they aren't sitting in a bedroom hoping for ROI and worrying about power bills, they must see a massive return over a long time compared to other places they invest. For example, if they plant a tree to harvest the wood...that money is tied up until the tree is worth harvesting years down the road for lumber, unlike bitcoins which given the right hardware break even in a few months. Once they have their BTC they sit on them and happily wait for a price rise. There are other options with the mining gear once BTC become uneconomical to mine. If you think BTC may one day hit 1000 dollars..uneconomical now may be acceptable investment for the future returns.

Personally I think that there's a short window now where we can mine using our own gear, then it will become unaffordable and we'll be buying  shares in companies that can do it to scale...some of whom may be companies like these.

I saw a rig linked from an ad on here last week, could be upgraded to cost half a million and some loony hashrate...just for a minute assuming it's a real rig that will exist and be able to pay for itself like a KnC rig hopefully will...why would a company who can afford 10 or those not buy them? What other traditional investment can do that? It must have some speculators in high risk markets licking their lips compared to the long term stuff they usually deal in...and IF they see the value of a bitcoin hitting 4 figures in years to come like many people do...well we're going to see them arriving in droves.

IF that's the case, we're not going to see a dribble of rins with higher and higher hashpower..we're going to see hundreds of farms of these rigs arriving as soon as they are available pushing the network hashrate sky high. The manufacturers, they'll love it, no whiny forums to keep an eye on, no delivery, no currency issues, just one large customer you need to deal with. A customer who may not care about ROI short term because they are looking for a very long term return based on a huge rise in coin prices.

Timmers the article is BS, or certainly surrounding evidence appears that way. Journalists are not immune to lazy journalism, especially in the age of the internet where upon the first to report get's the first share, which get's snowballed by sharing more increasing their reputation and 'delivering the news (FUD)'.

The other 'rig' you saw linked was Gridfinity, a supposed distributor for Hashfast, who came out on record stating his efforts of fundraising in $500k+ denominations had nothing to do with them (after confirming they were known to eachother previously). Shady marketing, sure, but not a huge success as people saw through it.

Not to say interest isn't gathering momentum, but the best thing for us miners is the ability to distribute the network far and wide, with competing companies offering worthwhile and genuine product offerings based on fair pricing, which is the way it appears to now be heading, finally...

Yeah I realise it's not fact. Sadly for us though it's just a matter of time before some of these types of companies see the possible returns and change the game. Where there's money to be made so obviously they always eventually find it.

What's best for BTC or us doesn't matter when money is to be made. They have the funds to do what they want in their relentless quest for profit.
Most people mining now won't be able to compete when rigs become expensive, so the whole game will change in favour of those who can afford to be industrial, just like all other industries.

Right now people aren't hosting their own rigs, prefering to have them hosted and pay for that. For sensible economic reasons. Next step, don't own a rig at all, buy a share in a farming facility..then logically not even that, buy a share in a mining company which is a short step from that. All you're going to get from owning a rig is hassle which you don't need if your eye is on the bottom line. Those with capital to invest will be all over that like a pair of rubber Y fronts...it's what they exist to do.

Some folk will stick to what they see as the right way on principle...most will follow their wallets and do what they can afford or what gives the best return.

The next year or maybe two is crucial IMO. Which is why to me this KnC batch and possibly the next gen is so important.
I liked the way they talked about aiming for long term ROI for their customers, I just hope they can do it.
So far I'm happy with what I've heard. A great deal of that thanks to your effort visiting them...so we owe you thanks for that. Smiley
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August 05, 2013, 01:24:11 PM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?

You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.
Yes I've said it twice already Smiley

One in this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2850139#msg2850139

And:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2850184#msg2850184

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August 05, 2013, 01:30:51 PM

Avalon Shmavalon.

Back onto KNCminer's order numbers... they have "Day 1" and "Day 2" as some kind of shipping batch identification. 
I figured they could ship a few hundred 4RU machines a day, if that...

So this guy is just now auctioning a "Day 1" order with order number #1824: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.0

So which of the following applies??

  • Day 1 doesn't actually mean the first day of shipping.
  • There are a lot of unpaid orders up to order number 1824.
  • Somehow KNCminer will be shipping almost 2000 x 4RU units in a single day....  Shocked

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August 05, 2013, 01:34:05 PM

Avalon Shmavalon.

Back onto KNCminer's order numbers... they have "Day 1" and "Day 2" as some kind of shipping batch identification. 
I figured they could ship a few hundred 4RU machines a day, if that...

So this guy is just now auctioning a "Day 1" order with order number #1824: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.0

So which of the following applies??

  • Day 1 doesn't actually mean the first day of shipping.
  • There are a lot of unpaid orders up to order number 1824.
  • Somehow KNCminer will be shipping almost 2000 x 4RU units in a single day....  Shocked


He could have order number 1824 but have paid for a pre-order to move him up to Day 1, without ultimately changing his order number. I wouldn't necessarily read a lot into Day 1 order numbers.

As far as speculating on how many units KnC can ship in a day, I think that's all it is - speculation. Obviously there is a limit to how many units they can assemble, test, box and ship in 1 day - not sure how we'd really take a guess at that.

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August 05, 2013, 01:35:44 PM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?
You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.

 Or is it Sonny K Huh
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August 05, 2013, 01:39:09 PM

could it be Satoshi? starts also with 's'.  Grin
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August 05, 2013, 01:49:42 PM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?
You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.

 Or is it Sonny K Huh
V

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August 05, 2013, 01:51:46 PM

Could that be Andrew Laurus (aka The Devil) with Sam (knc), Josh(bfl) and Yifu in that picture floating around?
You guys don't recognize Sonny V.? Ask kano.
Or is it Sonny K Huh
V

 The search continues...
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August 05, 2013, 02:04:41 PM

It's Sonny V... from BFL.

Quote
Overall, I appreciate the public's reason for concern and I will return and provide answers.

Never did return to provide answers  Cry
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August 05, 2013, 02:12:41 PM

Never did return to provide answers  Cry

Answers bring up new questions Wink
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