Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

It's irrelevant, because in order to get money into Bitstamp I need to do a SEPA transfer, which is even more expensive: 110 euros fixed fee for for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000
And even if it was free to do a SEPA transfer I would have used TransferWise, which are probably cheaper than Bitstamp?

At the moment just for comparison 10000 euros = 13,214.93USD in KNCMiner bank account.

Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

[madsusies]

Basically do normal transfer 2547 USD, the type of transfer OUR=Your bank and Sweden bank fees going on you, i got from my sms,the amount is 1950 EUR was send (with fees) normaly it would be under 1900EUR calculated in bank from USD amount

[CYPER]

Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

I have credit cards, but none of them have a limit close to the amount needed for my order + I currently live in the UK and I have financial assets in another EU country from where I intend to make the payment, thus shipping and billing addresses will be different.

[Bitcoinorama]

Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

I have credit cards, but none of them have a limit close to the amount needed for my order + I currently live in the UK and I have financial assets in another EU country from where I intend to make the payment, thus shipping and billing addresses will be different.

Can you not email KnC, and request whether your order can be broken into multiple manageable chunks for your ccard? That would also validate your earlier question as to whether it is worth splitting your total order into three separate purchases. Your issuing bank may have a limit to which they will protect you, that's your research to undertake, but this would make sense to me, offer consumer protection and potentially save you wire transfer fees.

[nowywbitcoinowymswiecie]

Guys, I have a few questions, so would be grateful if you can clarify them
1 - If prices for the miners are in USD and I would like to pay with bank transfer, then I guess the only way is international wire transfer? Can you pay with SEPA or it is only for payments in EURO?
2 - In order to save money on bank fees and exchange rates do you think it is allowed to use a money transfer services such as TransferWise - I send EURO to them, they convert to USD and send it to KNCMiner?
3 - Do you think there is any advantage of splitting a large order (2x Jupiters and 1x Saturn) into 3 separate orders?
4 - Do you think there is any difference in placing an order now or in 3 weeks in regards to delivery? Will there be a shipping queue with few units being sent daily or all early pre-orders will be shipped in September and everything else in October (if all goes as planned)?

Thank you in advance for all you replies

Dont send EUR through SEPA to their account. Your transfer will be returned! Ive already lost about 100EUR to learn that.
Ive asked to update that info on their page few weeks ago and they promised to do it.

[RHA]

I would imagine the people that have paid 19k and not received their units yet would be pretty pissed off seeing the Oct price down to less than half of what they paid. Obviously Bitfury responded to KNCminer's pricing, let's see what BFL and Avalon do.

Two different prices were there from the very beginning. People had a choice.
The price for August delivery was clearly matched  (equal $ per GH/s) to BFL offer for end of August (BFL_Josh was predicting backlog fulfillment by the end of August then).
The price for October delivery was matched to current KnC offer.

[CYPER]

Can you not email KnC, and request whether your order can be broken into multiple manageable chunks for your ccard? That would also validate your earlier question as to whether it is worth splitting your total order into three separate purchases. Your issuing bank may have a limit to which they will protect you, that's your research to undertake, but this would make sense to me, offer consumer protection and potentially save you wire transfer fees.

I know perfectly the advantages of paying with a UK issued credit card - Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

75. — (1) If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

But even so the number of CC I have and the credit limit on them is still not enough for this purchase, which is irrelevant, because I want to use my financial assets in the other EU country to fund this purchase.

Dont send EUR through SEPA to their account. Your transfer will be returned! Ive already lost about 100EUR to learn that.
Ive asked to update that info on their page few weeks ago and they promised to do it.

Thanks for the warning, but that is quite logical and common sense - don't send different currency unless you have written confirmation from KNCminer.

Another this that is unclear is if KNCminer are paying any additional fees for incoming USD payments into their bank accounts?

[HyperMega]

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

Fabrication time for 50 wafers is 25 hours

LOL. Where are you coming from? PCB manufacturing?

A realistic statement would be "Fabrication time of one layer of 50 wafers is 25 hours". Do you know how many layers a 28nm design has?

[KS]

-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

It's irrelevant, because in order to get money into Bitstamp I need to do a SEPA transfer, which is even more expensive: 110 euros fixed fee for for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000
And even if it was free to do a SEPA transfer I would have used TransferWise, which are probably cheaper than Bitstamp?

At the moment just for comparison 10000 euros = 13,214.93USD in KNCMiner bank account.

I find your statement confusing/confused. If you are sending EUR from a EU bank (not the UK one, that other EU bank you mentioned) using IBAN+BIC to Bitstamp's EU account, it is a SEPA transfer and falls under the SEPA regulations (no fee, 1-3 days ETA). Bitstamp will do the EUR/USD conversion at a decent rate. I have never paid a fee for it and it gets there within 3 days.

[CYPER]

I find your statement confusing/confused. If you are sending EUR from a EU bank (not the UK one, that other EU bank you mentioned) using IBAN+BIC to Bitstamp's EU account, it is a SEPA transfer and falls under the SEPA regulations (no fee, 1-3 days ETA). Bitstamp will do the EUR/USD conversion at a decent rate. I have never paid a fee for it and it gets there within 3 days.

You are confused, because you believe that all SEPA transfers should be free, which is not the case.
For example UK banks will charge you
And the banks in this member state I'm talking about will also charge you
It's basically the right of each bank to set the fees - maybe because the official currency is not euro?

[merv77]

@CYPER

couldn't you just use paypal, but pay via bank transfer (not sure if there is a limit)
if you have credit card listed in paypal but select transfer via bank account then transfer is instant just like using credit card.

just an idea  

EDIT: you can also add multiple addresses in 'your account' at KnC

[sbfree]

Kano or Ckolivas, have you heard back from KNCMiner?

And also, if can let us in on the subject of those last emails, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

Kano, thanks for the earlier reply, and I understand if you or ckolivas are not at liberty to disclose your email discussions with KNCminer.

At this point, it appears that you and ckolivas have more info. thank any of us on the board since you have the most recent communications

with KNCMiner.

Erk stated that I was out of line or pushy. I did mention "any chance" in my first request, so it did not come off pushy and this last time I

again thanked Kano and mention "IF he could let us in" so not pushy either.

OUT OF LINE?? Maybe, but prior I did ask Kano if there was a NDA for either him or ckolivas with KNC, but that was not answered. Had he

said YES, I would not have asked again.

 

[CYPER]

@CYPER

couldn't you just use paypal, but pay via bank transfer (not sure if there is a limit)
if you have credit card listed in paypal but select transfer via bank account then transfer is instant just like using credit card.

just an idea  

EDIT: you can also add multiple addresses in 'your account' at KnC

That's a good idea I somehow missed. I don't have a PayPal account in the country, where the funds are, but I can create one.
I believe instant bank transfers are not possible, but the payment can be funded through the debit card, that will be issued by the bank.
But for such a large transaction there will be PayPal limits, which I have to remove first.
Need to research into this.

[CYPER]

I've been looking into potential ROI in relation to future Bitcoin difficulty and it looks like it would still make sense to run a Jupiter machine with 1 billion difficulty.

Which made me think - is there a way to calculate difficulty based on network hash rate?
If we can sum up a very rough estimate of the new ASIC machines being delivered and added to the network and the removal of most GPU miners (who pay electricity) then we can calculate again a very rough estimate of the future difficulty.
And again by rough I mean down to hundreds of TH/s.

Or in other words do you it is possible for difficulty to surpass 1 billion this year?

[Bitcoinorama]

@CYPER

couldn't you just use paypal, but pay via bank transfer (not sure if there is a limit)
if you have credit card listed in paypal but select transfer via bank account then transfer is instant just like using credit card.

just an idea  

EDIT: you can also add multiple addresses in 'your account' at KnC

That's a good idea I somehow missed. I don't have a PayPal account in the country, where the funds are, but I can create one.
I believe instant bank transfers are not possible, but the payment can be funded through the debit card, that will be issued by the bank.
But for such a large transaction there will be PayPal limits, which I have to remove first.
Need to research into this.

You will need to be present at a fixed address in that country to answer an automated phone call with a pin.

They will also deposit two minor payments in your account in the currency of the country the account is being set up in and will require you put those to amounts in as another pin code.

They can also ask occasionally for a scan of passport/drivers licence etc. the biggest ballache is waiting for the two small amounts to show on your bank statement. Faster if it's internet banking...

Edit: actually this applies to UK, so you probably know this, unsure if same verification steps apply elsewhere. I know Spain has very strict privacy laws typically a scan of National ID and utility bill from a fixed address that has to be verified by a member of personnel.

[Loredo]

Which made me think - is there a way to calculate difficulty based on network hash rate?

They are linearly, functionally, related.  That is, ignoring the transient network rate effects (which are what induce changes in difficulty in the first place) it is:

7158278 * D = Hash

EDIT:  This, BTW, is why difficulty in a trending network growth phase is, like any moving average, always the correct level for what was, not what is.  Hence, the normalized "3600 coins per day" is actually often substantially higher, and a source of "gaming" in players' network participation.

[Anenome5]

But for such a large transaction there will be PayPal limits, which I have to remove first.
Need to research into this.

I had to verify my account for Paypal to let me use a CC to pay for a Jupiter. Wasn't a huge deal. Dunno if that applies in other countries besides US tho.

[Anenome5]

do you [think] it is possible for difficulty to surpass 1 billion this year?

I don't think it's possible, no.

The problem with the exponential increases in the calculators' models is that while the diff has been rising exponentially it's doing so with mere linear inputs of money into mining equipment. And that exponential performance gains have come from bringing to bear modern computing technology on the problem, ie: ASICs.

Eventually we hit a wall where we've wrung the most efficiency out of existing tech and at that point, everyone's who already hit positive ROI on their equipment will be cemented in place with their existing market-share, because it won't make financial sense for others to jump into the game unless they can produce a far more efficient miner technically--and they won't be able to. We're looking at 1 or two more generations of mining products (barring some major tech advancement in the chip industry like carbon nanotube chips or something), and if the price of bitcoin doesn't rise dramatically again in the next years then that's the state of things, people mining late this year will probably still be mining late next year.

The bitcoin community doesn't have exponential money to put into miners. So those calculators are off with their projections by early next year, around June I'd say is where we hit the wall and there won't be anywhere else to go. That will be the new normal, probably around 500 - 750 million difficulty as an offhand guess.

[aerobatic]

So what do you think the network hash rate will be, before and after knc ship their first batch of boxes?

ie: for oct, nov, dec ?

do you [think] it is possible for difficulty to surpass 1 billion this year?

The bitcoin community doesn't have exponential money to put into miners. So those calculators are off with their projections by early next year, around June I'd say is where we hit the wall and there won't be anywhere else to go. That will be the new normal, probably around 500 - 750 million difficulty as an offhand guess.
[/quote]

[sbfree]

Which made me think - is there a way to calculate difficulty based on network hash rate?

They are linearly, functionally, related.  That is, ignoring the transient network rate effects (which are what induce changes in difficulty in the first place) it is:

7158278 * D = Hash

EDIT:  This, BTW, is why difficulty in a trending network growth phase is, like any moving average, always the correct level for what was, not what is.  Hence, the normalized "3600 coins per day" is actually often substantially higher, and a source of "gaming" in players' network participation.

Loredo, can you expand a little more on the second half of the quote here, where I believe you are referring to pool hopping. This might be of interest to those purchasing KnC equipment trying to maximize their ROI. Thanks.