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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007539 times)
Bitcoinorama
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August 04, 2013, 01:28:08 PM
 #4941


SEPA is €uro only payment.

SEPA regulates bank transfers (fee + delay) denominated in Euro between EU banks, using IBAN + BIC information.

However, if you have, say, a USD-denominated account in a EU bank, you should still use the IBAN + BIC codes to makes a transfer to another EU bank, the difference is that the transfer fee/delay is not regulated by the SEPA agreement (but you risk paying even more if you don't use IBAN+BIC).

So KNCMiner require the incoming payment to be in USD, which means I have to convert whatever currency I have in my bank account to USD before sending it, right?
In that case the payment would not fall within the scope of SEPA, correct?

They chose USD as they didn't want to handle multiple currency exchange rates making an account planning nightmare at their end, and knew they had to offer a payment means besides BTC for pre-orders. USD being the most common, or they would have used their preferred choice, Swedish Krona. Sweden is part of the EU, like the UK, and like the UK have not joined the Eurozone preferring instead to keep their sovereignty.

USD bank transfer is separate to SEPA.

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August 04, 2013, 01:31:57 PM
 #4942


SEPA is €uro only payment.

SEPA regulates bank transfers (fee + delay) denominated in Euro between EU banks, using IBAN + BIC information.

However, if you have, say, a USD-denominated account in a EU bank, you should still use the IBAN + BIC codes to makes a transfer to another EU bank, the difference is that the transfer fee/delay is not regulated by the SEPA agreement (but you risk paying even more if you don't use IBAN+BIC).

So KNCMiner require the incoming payment to be in USD, which means I have to convert whatever currency I have in my bank account to USD before sending it, right?
In that case the payment would not fall within the scope of SEPA, correct?

Correct. (Sorry, I was editing my previous post before seeing your message.) You can normally send EUR for USD or USD for USD from your bank, using IBAN+BIC (maybe from your online banking site, definitely if you go to your local branch).

Anyway, best for you to drop KNCMINER a line (sales@kncminer.com) and ask them directly.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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August 04, 2013, 01:40:35 PM
 #4943


SEPA is €uro only payment.

SEPA regulates bank transfers (fee + delay) denominated in Euro between EU banks, using IBAN + BIC information.

However, if you have, say, a USD-denominated account in a EU bank, you should still use the IBAN + BIC codes to makes a transfer to another EU bank, the difference is that the transfer fee/delay is not regulated by the SEPA agreement (but you risk paying even more if you don't use IBAN+BIC).

So KNCMiner require the incoming payment to be in USD, which means I have to convert whatever currency I have in my bank account to USD before sending it, right?
In that case the payment would not fall within the scope of SEPA, correct?


I'm confused because my bank has 2 categories for international payments with different fees, so which service do I use?
Outgoing transfers :
a) Ordered by clients of FIBank with a SPOT value date (2 working days after the day of the order) - 0.15%, min. EUR 15, max. EUR 200
b) for on-line transfers in EUR to countries from European Economic Area with indicated BIC and IBAN of the beneficiary and with shared transfer expenses (SHA):
- for amounts up to EUR 10,000 EUR 60
- for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000 EUR 110
- for amounts from EUR 25,000 up to EUR 50,000 EUR 200
- for amounts above EUR 50,000 EUR 280

Call you local branch and ask them for a quote. You know the amount of USD to send, you can check the cost then (xe.com for exchange rates).

Alternatively, I would suggest (if you have the time to get verified) to open an account at Bitstamp.net (a BTC exchange) with great EUR-USD exchange rates (and you can make SEPA deposits) - also useful for selling your BTC in the future. Transfer money, buy BTC and pay KNCMINER in BTC through BitPay.

I know it's cheaper for me (taking into account the various fees  along the way) than using my main bank for EUR/USD exchange, but your mileage may vary.

edit: of course, paying in BTC pretty much guarantees you'll lose your money (i.e. no Paypal/CC buyer protection) if KNCMINER is a bust.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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August 04, 2013, 01:53:47 PM
 #4944


Call you local branch and ask them for a quote. You know the amount of USD to send, you can check the cost then (xe.com for exchange rates).

Alternatively, I would suggest (if you have the time to get verified) to open an account at Bitstamp.net (a BTC exchange) with great EUR-USD exchange rates (and you can make SEPA deposits) - also useful for selling your BTC in the future. Transfer money, buy BTC and pay KNCMINER in BTC through BitPay.

I know it's cheaper for me (taking into account the various fees  along the way) than using my main bank for EUR/USD exchange, but your mileage may vary.

edit: of course, paying in BTC pretty much guarantees you'll lose your money (i.e. no Paypal/CC buyer protection) if KNCMINER is a bust.

I will call them tomorrow as they don't work on weekends to verify my findings anyway.
I am MTGox and Bitstamp verified and was thinking about paying in BTC, but don't like the idea of zero protection in case of a bust Smiley
Not that direct bank transfer is much more secure, but still there are records and there can be consequences in relation to these records Smiley
And direct bank transfer is not that expensive according to their tariff - 0.15%, min. EUR 15, max. EUR 200 + compulsory SWIFT messages, which is EUR 10 per page.

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August 04, 2013, 02:06:27 PM
 #4945


Call you local branch and ask them for a quote. You know the amount of USD to send, you can check the cost then (xe.com for exchange rates).

Alternatively, I would suggest (if you have the time to get verified) to open an account at Bitstamp.net (a BTC exchange) with great EUR-USD exchange rates (and you can make SEPA deposits) - also useful for selling your BTC in the future. Transfer money, buy BTC and pay KNCMINER in BTC through BitPay.

I know it's cheaper for me (taking into account the various fees  along the way) than using my main bank for EUR/USD exchange, but your mileage may vary.

edit: of course, paying in BTC pretty much guarantees you'll lose your money (i.e. no Paypal/CC buyer protection) if KNCMINER is a bust.

I will call them tomorrow as they don't work on weekends to verify my findings anyway.
I am MTGox and Bitstamp verified and was thinking about paying in BTC, but don't like the idea of zero protection in case of a bust Smiley
Not that direct bank transfer is much more secure, but still there are records and there can be consequences in relation to these records Smiley
And direct bank transfer is not that expensive according to their tariff - 0.15%, min. EUR 15, max. EUR 200 + compulsory SWIFT messages, which is EUR 10 per page.

-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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August 04, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
 #4946


-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

It's irrelevant, because in order to get money into Bitstamp I need to do a SEPA transfer, which is even more expensive: 110 euros fixed fee for for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000
And even if it was free to do a SEPA transfer I would have used TransferWise, which are probably cheaper than Bitstamp?

At the moment just for comparison 10000 euros = 13,214.93USD in KNCMiner bank account.

If this post helped you and you feel generous you know what to do: 1P9tXFy9bVgzrfPGeV7F8np26ZtFdCCWvz
Bitcoinorama
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August 04, 2013, 02:37:43 PM
 #4947


-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

It's irrelevant, because in order to get money into Bitstamp I need to do a SEPA transfer, which is even more expensive: 110 euros fixed fee for for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000
And even if it was free to do a SEPA transfer I would have used TransferWise, which are probably cheaper than Bitstamp?

At the moment just for comparison 10000 euros = 13,214.93USD in KNCMiner bank account.

Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

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August 04, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
 #4948

Basically do normal transfer 2547 USD, the type of transfer OUR=Your bank and Sweden bank fees going on you, i got from my sms,the amount is 1950 EUR was send (with fees) normaly it would be under 1900EUR calculated in bank from USD amount
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August 04, 2013, 03:09:01 PM
 #4949


Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

I have credit cards, but none of them have a limit close to the amount needed for my order + I currently live in the UK and I have financial assets in another EU country from where I intend to make the payment, thus shipping and billing addresses will be different.

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August 04, 2013, 03:32:45 PM
 #4950


Sorry, but what is the issue with you and credit cards? Do you not have one?

I have credit cards, but none of them have a limit close to the amount needed for my order + I currently live in the UK and I have financial assets in another EU country from where I intend to make the payment, thus shipping and billing addresses will be different.


Can you not email KnC, and request whether your order can be broken into multiple manageable chunks for your ccard? That would also validate your earlier question as to whether it is worth splitting your total order into three separate purchases. Your issuing bank may have a limit to which they will protect you, that's your research to undertake, but this would make sense to me, offer consumer protection and potentially save you wire transfer fees.

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August 04, 2013, 03:34:43 PM
 #4951

Guys, I have a few questions, so would be grateful if you can clarify them
1 - If prices for the miners are in USD and I would like to pay with bank transfer, then I guess the only way is international wire transfer? Can you pay with SEPA or it is only for payments in EURO?
2 - In order to save money on bank fees and exchange rates do you think it is allowed to use a money transfer services such as TransferWise - I send EURO to them, they convert to USD and send it to KNCMiner?
3 - Do you think there is any advantage of splitting a large order (2x Jupiters and 1x Saturn) into 3 separate orders?
4 - Do you think there is any difference in placing an order now or in 3 weeks in regards to delivery? Will there be a shipping queue with few units being sent daily or all early pre-orders will be shipped in September and everything else in October (if all goes as planned)?

Thank you in advance for all you replies Smiley

Dont send EUR through SEPA to their account. Your transfer will be returned! Ive already lost about 100EUR to learn that.
Ive asked to update that info on their page few weeks ago and they promised to do it.

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August 04, 2013, 03:41:17 PM
 #4952

I would imagine the people that have paid 19k and not received their units yet would be pretty pissed off seeing the Oct price down to less than half of what they paid. Obviously Bitfury responded to KNCminer's pricing, let's see what BFL and Avalon do.

Two different prices were there from the very beginning. People had a choice.
The price for August delivery was clearly matched  (equal $ per GH/s) to BFL offer for end of August (BFL_Josh was predicting backlog fulfillment by the end of August then).
The price for October delivery was matched to current KnC offer.
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August 04, 2013, 03:46:28 PM
 #4953

Can you not email KnC, and request whether your order can be broken into multiple manageable chunks for your ccard? That would also validate your earlier question as to whether it is worth splitting your total order into three separate purchases. Your issuing bank may have a limit to which they will protect you, that's your research to undertake, but this would make sense to me, offer consumer protection and potentially save you wire transfer fees.

I know perfectly the advantages of paying with a UK issued credit card - Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

Quote
75. — (1) If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

But even so the number of CC I have and the credit limit on them is still not enough for this purchase, which is irrelevant, because I want to use my financial assets in the other EU country to fund this purchase.


Dont send EUR through SEPA to their account. Your transfer will be returned! Ive already lost about 100EUR to learn that.
Ive asked to update that info on their page few weeks ago and they promised to do it.

Thanks for the warning, but that is quite logical and common sense - don't send different currency unless you have written confirmation from KNCminer.

Another this that is unclear is if KNCminer are paying any additional fees for incoming USD payments into their bank accounts?

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August 04, 2013, 04:14:26 PM
 #4954

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

Fabrication time for 50 wafers is 25 hours

LOL. Where are you coming from? PCB manufacturing?

A realistic statement would be "Fabrication time of one layer of 50 wafers is 25 hours". Do you know how many layers a 28nm design has?
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August 04, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
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-0.15% of the *SPOT* price (theirs I would think, not FOREX), 2 days after you send.

I know that Bitstamp is about 4% cheaper (!) for me on the SPOT... (ex: I would get 1.26 for USD at my bank and 1.31 at Bitstamp).

It's irrelevant, because in order to get money into Bitstamp I need to do a SEPA transfer, which is even more expensive: 110 euros fixed fee for for amounts from EUR 10,000 up to EUR 25,000
And even if it was free to do a SEPA transfer I would have used TransferWise, which are probably cheaper than Bitstamp?

At the moment just for comparison 10000 euros = 13,214.93USD in KNCMiner bank account.

I find your statement confusing/confused. If you are sending EUR from a EU bank (not the UK one, that other EU bank you mentioned) using IBAN+BIC to Bitstamp's EU account, it is a SEPA transfer and falls under the SEPA regulations (no fee, 1-3 days ETA). Bitstamp will do the EUR/USD conversion at a decent rate. I have never paid a fee for it and it gets there within 3 days.


“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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August 04, 2013, 05:28:01 PM
 #4956


I find your statement confusing/confused. If you are sending EUR from a EU bank (not the UK one, that other EU bank you mentioned) using IBAN+BIC to Bitstamp's EU account, it is a SEPA transfer and falls under the SEPA regulations (no fee, 1-3 days ETA). Bitstamp will do the EUR/USD conversion at a decent rate. I have never paid a fee for it and it gets there within 3 days.


You are confused, because you believe that all SEPA transfers should be free, which is not the case.
For example UK banks will charge you Wink
And the banks in this member state I'm talking about will also charge you Smiley
It's basically the right of each bank to set the fees - maybe because the official currency is not euro?

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August 04, 2013, 05:55:57 PM
 #4957

@CYPER

couldn't you just use paypal, but pay via bank transfer (not sure if there is a limit)
if you have credit card listed in paypal but select transfer via bank account then transfer is instant just like using credit card.

just an idea  Smiley

EDIT: you can also add multiple addresses in 'your account' at KnC
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August 04, 2013, 06:01:02 PM
 #4958

Kano or Ckolivas, have you heard back from KNCMiner?

And also, if can let us in on the subject of those last emails, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

Kano, thanks for the earlier reply, and I understand if you or ckolivas are not at liberty to disclose your email discussions with KNCminer.

At this point, it appears that you and ckolivas have more info. thank any of us on the board since you have the most recent communications

with KNCMiner.

Erk stated that I was out of line or pushy. I did mention "any chance" in my first request, so it did not come off pushy and this last time I

again thanked Kano and mention "IF he could let us in" so not pushy either.

OUT OF LINE?? Maybe, but prior I did ask Kano if there was a NDA for either him or ckolivas with KNC, but that was not answered. Had he

said YES, I would not have asked again.

 
CYPER
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August 04, 2013, 06:19:22 PM
 #4959

@CYPER

couldn't you just use paypal, but pay via bank transfer (not sure if there is a limit)
if you have credit card listed in paypal but select transfer via bank account then transfer is instant just like using credit card.

just an idea  Smiley

EDIT: you can also add multiple addresses in 'your account' at KnC

That's a good idea I somehow missed. I don't have a PayPal account in the country, where the funds are, but I can create one.
I believe instant bank transfers are not possible, but the payment can be funded through the debit card, that will be issued by the bank.
But for such a large transaction there will be PayPal limits, which I have to remove first.
Need to research into this.

If this post helped you and you feel generous you know what to do: 1P9tXFy9bVgzrfPGeV7F8np26ZtFdCCWvz
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August 04, 2013, 06:27:55 PM
 #4960

I've been looking into potential ROI in relation to future Bitcoin difficulty and it looks like it would still make sense to run a Jupiter machine with 1 billion difficulty.

Which made me think - is there a way to calculate difficulty based on network hash rate?
If we can sum up a very rough estimate of the new ASIC machines being delivered and added to the network and the removal of most GPU miners (who pay electricity) then we can calculate again a very rough estimate of the future difficulty.
And again by rough I mean down to hundreds of TH/s.

Or in other words do you it is possible for difficulty to surpass 1 billion this year?

If this post helped you and you feel generous you know what to do: 1P9tXFy9bVgzrfPGeV7F8np26ZtFdCCWvz
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