Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[NetTime]

Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase.

a bit smelly to get this information just one day after the last batch sold out..

+1

+1

+1

I appreciate the update from Bitcoinorama but my feet are starting to get a little cold after this info. With the difficulty still climbing fast despite the failure of Hashfast and Cointerra to ship thus far, it's obvious there's a lot more incoming hashrate than I was aware of and they will ship eventually as both have working prototypes at this point. Could KNC be producing Jupiters for in house mining? It's hard to believe bitfury/gen 2 avalon could be responsible for it all...

I expected a least a little more concrete Nuptune info from KNC by this point as we're still left with a huge 5 month delivery window that ranges from a nice ROI to a massive loss for us customers that are in effect bankrolling the development of their 20nm miner. His update gives me the impression that they are not weighing the ROI of their customers in the schedule as much as they did for their 28nm development. I really hope that the "Q1/Q2" delivery is sincerely due to their uncertainty instead of intentional misleading like almost all other ASIC venders have been guilty of.

I am also really curious about what the actual manufacturing cost of a Jupiter is now that the RnD has already been paid for. It seems like it would have been a much better idea to refine their existing 28nm product which would allow them to have a 100% solid March 1st ship date as I feel a 700+Gh/s Jupiter should still be competitive by then and very easy to pull off.

I think I will wait until the end of the month and if there is still no official information about their progress I will consider asking for a refund or selling my pre-order.

Agreed on all points.  We're getting buried quick by the difficulty, and if KnC doesn't step it up so the Neptunes ship very early in Q2 we're going to be in trouble.

[merv77]

...
I'm guessing the BBB (BeagleBoneBlack) could be a bottleneck.
...

@ 'Orama/KnC: Could sales of a Jupiter with controllerboard minus BBB be an option ?

if the beaglebone was the bottleneck I'm sure he would of said just that...
There's more (or less) to it they're not revealing.  This seems a bit smelly also.

You might want to fix your tag line.. I haven't seen an 3000HG/s (HigaGash?) ASIC miner before!

amazing you're the first to see the typo.  and now that you spelled it out as HigaGash it sounds like XXX porn name   
thanks anyway

[Xian01]

Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase.

 Ugh. This statement does not inspire confidence for shipping Neptunes by end of Q1

[Paladin69]

damnit knc, why did you have to remove ports 5 & 6 from the Nov Jups. 

[Phoenix1969]

why would you guess BBB when he said Controller Boards? lol

[Tehfiend]

...
I'm guessing the BBB (BeagleBoneBlack) could be a bottleneck.
...

@ 'Orama/KnC: Could sales of a Jupiter with controllerboard minus BBB be an option ?

if the beaglebone was the bottleneck I'm sure he would of said just that...
There's more (or less) to it they're not revealing.  This seems a bit smelly also.

I am really starting to wonder if they might have produced a batch of Jupiters and decided to just keep them to mine privately. Despite their 28nm competitors lack of delivery, the network has still managed to grow rapidly and there is an obvious demand for their already designed and successful Jupiter miner. They even told us to get some BTC ready and implied they would sell from stock instead of taking pre-orders which was followed by complete silence while somebody very steadily added a lot of hashrate to the network. If they were able to manufacture another batch of Jupiters using the proceeds from the first 2 batches they would be foolish to sell them if they believe they would turn a profit.

I think a problem we will face with any ASIC manufacture is that if they are successful with their initial pre-order > development > product launch, they will no longer need to sell them to the public and just go private at that point. It would be the smart thing to do IMO. After getting us to take all the risk on the expensive RnD they can then build their own farms for a fraction of the price/risk...

I hope I'm wrong!

[Paladin69]

we want you to remain competitive w.r.t. the unfolding mining landscape

Then KnC should release more Jupiter's now because the landscape is unfolding into something that nobody can later compete in except for cloud networks.

[smoothrunnings]

Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase.

a bit smelly to get this information just one day after the last batch sold out..

+1

+1

+1

I appreciate the update from Bitcoinorama but my feet are starting to get a little cold after this info. With the difficulty still climbing fast despite the failure of Hashfast and Cointerra to ship thus far, it's obvious there's a lot more incoming hashrate than I was aware of and they will ship eventually as both have working prototypes at this point. Could KNC be producing Jupiters for in house mining? It's hard to believe bitfury/gen 2 avalon could be responsible for it all...

I expected a least a little more concrete Nuptune info from KNC by this point as we're still left with a huge 5 month delivery window that ranges from a nice ROI to a massive loss for us customers that are in effect bankrolling the development of their 20nm miner. His update gives me the impression that they are not weighing the ROI of their customers in the schedule as much as they did for their 28nm development. I really hope that the "Q1/Q2" delivery is sincerely due to their uncertainty instead of intentional misleading like almost all other ASIC venders have been guilty of.

I am also really curious about what the actual manufacturing cost of a Jupiter is now that the RnD has already been paid for. It seems like it would have been a much better idea to refine their existing 28nm product which would allow them to have a 100% solid March 1st ship date as I feel a 700+Gh/s Jupiter should still be competitive by then and very easy to pull off.

I think I will wait until the end of the month and if there is still no official information about their progress I will consider asking for a refund or selling my pre-order.

Agreed on all points.  We're getting buried quick by the difficulty, and if KnC doesn't step it up so the Neptunes ship very early in Q2 we're going to be in trouble.

Yeap. Our 3TH miners will only be able to do 0.00000005 BTC a day by time we get them, but in the meantime Knc Miner is likely hashing with them right now!

[dimaze]

damnit knc, why did you have to remove ports 5 & 6 from the Nov Jups. 

Some of the Oct Jupiters were shipped with only 4 ports as well. Not really fair for those that planned to upgrade them.

[dimaze]

...
I'm guessing the BBB (BeagleBoneBlack) could be a bottleneck.
...

@ 'Orama/KnC: Could sales of a Jupiter with controllerboard minus BBB be an option ?

if the beaglebone was the bottleneck I'm sure he would of said just that...
There's more (or less) to it they're not revealing.  This seems a bit smelly also.

I am really starting to wonder if they might have produced a batch of Jupiters and decided to just keep them to mine privately. Despite their 28nm competitors lack of delivery, the network has still managed to grow rapidly and there is an obvious demand for their already designed and successful Jupiter miner. They even told us to get some BTC ready and implied they would sell from stock instead of taking pre-orders which was followed by complete silence while somebody very steadily added a lot of hashrate to the network. If they were able to manufacture another batch of Jupiters using the proceeds from the first 2 batches they would be foolish to sell them if they believe they would turn a profit.

I think a problem we will face with any ASIC manufacture is that if they are successful with their initial pre-order > development > product launch, they will no longer need to sell them to the public and just go private at that point. It would be the smart thing to do IMO. After getting us to take all the risk on the expensive RnD they can then build their own farms for a fraction of the price/risk...

I hope I'm wrong!

Orama might correct me if I am wrong, but I believe KnC had an internal sale for 3500$ per Jupiter. I'm not sure how much they sold, but I would imagine it could be a lot!

[Saproach]

My October Jupiter hashes at 425Gh/s (has the Die0) issue.   I've wasted so much time (and downtime) messing around with it I've given up.

Any Toronto-based Jupiter miners interested in some pocket scratch in exchange for coming in to get mine up to speed?

After I did what it said in the post that was on KNC's website, my father's DIE came back alive and he's now hasing %100. Here is the link:

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/24988-0-99-tuning-suite-instructions-october-miners

Thanks!   I tried messing with that a few times and it killed more dies.   I'll give it another whirl!

[joeventura]

damnit knc, why did you have to remove ports 5 & 6 from the Nov Jups. 

Some of the Oct Jupiters were shipped with only 4 ports as well. Not really fair for those that planned to upgrade them.

$2 in parts, a little soldering skills....

[Syke]

Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase.

 Ugh. This statement does not inspire confidence for shipping Neptunes by end of Q1

Q1 was never a possibility. Ever.

[The Avenger]

My October Jupiter hashes at 425Gh/s (has the Die0) issue.   I've wasted so much time (and downtime) messing around with it I've given up.

Any Toronto-based Jupiter miners interested in some pocket scratch in exchange for coming in to get mine up to speed?

After I did what it said in the post that was on KNC's website, my father's DIE came back alive and he's now hasing %100. Here is the link:

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/24988-0-99-tuning-suite-instructions-october-miners

Thanks!   I tried messing with that a few times and it killed more dies.   I'll give it another whirl!

Just be very careful with this step:
4. If increasing the SPI voltage by itself does not fix your issue, increase the voltage on each affected die, this should then bring the die back to life (it is best to not change the voltage on any working die)

Keep a close eye on the current and make sure it doesn't go above 60A. To be safe, try to keep it in the range 40 - 50A.

I found that adjusting the voltage of one of my dies to around -0.025v gave me 58A! If I'd kept going to 0 or up into the positive numbers, I'd probably have blown it all to shit.

Every miner is different, I have seen guys with settings of +0.8v etc, but keep a close eye on the values on your particular machine.

Why there is no such warning in that "official" post I have no idea. knc really should warn people that the settings are wide enough to do real damage to their hardware and what to look out for to avoid that.


Edit: Yeah, this has been annoying me:

Present, stable:


Adjusted to -0.025v (my mistake, 57A, not 58A as I said)


What exactly would happened if I set it to the full +0.1458?

(N.B. If you clicked the "Apply changes" button in the image, please send 1BTC to address in signature   )

[vesperwillow]

@bitcoinorama And so... when will they put up for sale the update modules? next week? price? Payment will only be possible in bitcoins? And finally... only for the old costumers

They can't, at this point, hold it to just original customers as they advertise it on their website for all products. Originally it was just for Mercury and Saturn, but then they openly decided to let anyone buy them, customer or not.

Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase.

 Ugh. This statement does not inspire confidence for shipping Neptunes by end of Q1

That was never a possibility in all reality, especially with how long it takes to send to the foundry and then get it back ... at this point, April would be the earliest.. I believe my wager from 2 months ago was mid April for earliest, with mid May being most likely. And by then.. good luck ever getting a 15th of the BTC price back.

I am really starting to wonder if they might have produced a batch of Jupiters and decided to just keep them to mine privately. Despite their 28nm competitors lack of delivery, the network has still managed to grow rapidly and there is an obvious demand for their already designed and successful Jupiter miner. They even told us to get some BTC ready and implied they would sell from stock instead of taking pre-orders which was followed by complete silence while somebody very steadily added a lot of hashrate to the network. If they were able to manufacture another batch of Jupiters using the proceeds from the first 2 batches they would be foolish to sell them if they believe they would turn a profit.

Some of us were aware of the hidden 55nm competition coming online during December.. some of us said things, and we were ignored and laughed at. They're going to keep shipping, non stop.

And when Cointerra starts shipping in the next 2 weeks it's going to hurt more, but what would be worse is if they have planned things out to the point where they have enough material to fulfill their first 2 or 3 batches. Their assembly line makes KNC's look like a 15th century sheep farm. They could knock the batches out in a week, maybe 2. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but they were doing 5,000 and 10,000 unit batches, and still are, with some single orders in the upper hundreds of units.

Imagine that difficulty level.

This doesn't catch KNC off guard, nor any other serious OEM. Everyone knows it's going industrial which is why a lot of these initial designs are very industrial, to prepare them to move to the corporate level.

[RoadStress]

The only thing for certain - the guys who pre-ordered knobtunes are going to get a few grey hairs this summer

I missed you Welcome back.

[smoothrunnings]

I can't wait for the next generation chips.. 14nm.

There are apparently two manufactures in the world who can make 14nm dyes, just no one is making a 14nm ASIC chip yet.

[soy]

I hope they don't go for to much perfection with the Neptunes...  This still is an arms race and difficulty

rising exponentially is still a big part of mining.  no..?

bottleneck with controller boards that's the simplest component of the whole miner.  Could you

please explain Orama..?  I'm not sure I'm believing this unless you/KNC can explain with more detail.  KNC have

pulled miracles in the past with bigger volumes and now there's a bottleneck.  I'm sure another PCB

manufacturers that can make it happen if existing manufacturer is busy. 

Also. didn't KNC tell us to keep BTC handy for these Jupiters.  What's changed..?  Fear of Neptune refunds..? 

by the way they sold out this shouldn't be the case.

Come on, we're all men here.. spill the beans even if some will get upset I'm sure we'll get over it. 

I'm guessing the BBB (BeagleBoneBlack) could be a bottleneck.

Cointerra is using them too, and probably many others, because of the 'powerfulness' of a BBB compared to a raspberryPi.

<Conspiracy mode>

BeagleBone is a US (non-profit)company/foundation, and rPi is from the UK:
Hopefully Cointerra (US company) didn't sign an exclusive deal with BBB, for a certain amount of time/products.

</Conspiracy mode>

Years back Ipads were available and way too expensive for my budget.  I watched closely for reviews of the tablets coming out of Asia.  There was a write up on the Cortex A8 that sounded very good.  Then Merrimobiles offered the Mid816 with the Cortex A8 at a reasonable price.  I still use it as my goto tablet tho I have one newer and three e-readers.  That Cortex A8 is the reason for choosing the BBB.

[soy]

...
I'm guessing the BBB (BeagleBoneBlack) could be a bottleneck.
...

@ 'Orama/KnC: Could sales of a Jupiter with controllerboard minus BBB be an option ?

if the beaglebone was the bottleneck I'm sure he would of said just that...
There's more (or less) to it they're not revealing.  This seems a bit smelly also.

Perhaps something to do with the FPGA on the controller board interacting with the BBB.

[Tehfiend]

Some of us were aware of the hidden 55nm competition coming online during December.. some of us said things, and we were ignored and laughed at. They're going to keep shipping, non stop.

I was aware of Avalon's claim that they would be producing 2Ph/s worth of gen2 chips per month but after their failed auction and over priced reels in their store I guess I didn't believe they would be hitting the network so soon. I guess it is extremely likely that the recent hashrate is from Bitfury and Avalon gen2 chips...