Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Searing]

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...

I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.

well assuming you are correct..get a refund now up to shipping.....but its my view that the boat has sailed.....they were always gonna mine at least 5% was it of what they sell anyway...that is always gonna grow as network does...as to doing a mining hosting rig thing..ie selling virtual machines that hash..well that is where it all is going with mining anyway...even I saw that coming but not this soon

so they mine 5% if that is the figure they gave on themselves and sell the rest to us as virtual miners.....imho they are just doing this a lot sooner then I thought

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

nope from their point of view it has gotten too nuts to mnfg only and this is their exit strategy..you can either get a refund ...wait for equip to get to you  and take the hash in the mean time....

thems the choices

for me just shocked it happened in Feb mnfg companies are moving this way vs nov/dec when I expected such a change

you can't blame the company because the river suddenly sped up and now their are rapids....ie they figure they need a bigger boat...us.....well we can take their bigger boat or not go down the river again imho they ..the mnfg companies all had this as a plan..if bitcoin works and difficulty goes up it is the same as 'pools' now .it was/is inevitable

so I have a choice.....get Neptunes with the above conditions or refund them

heck of a lot more choice then I have or had with anyone else

Searing

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[Biffa]

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity 

Its really only being torn apart by the people that have been trying to tear the thread apart for months now. We should really just thank them, tell them they were right and we were all wrong, pay them a BTC tip for their troubles and maybe they'll go play somewhere else for a while

[Tigggger]

They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

The problem isn't what they do AFTER the neptunes ship, it's that they are bringing online hashrate in advance of future sales, and that hashrate devalues existing and future purchases.

[Searing]

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity 

well to be fair the other mnfg's "rape you " imho

KNC seems to wine and dine you..but never calls you for a 2nd date

I know I'm a smart ass but they are a 'business' they can be fair and still tweak things to their advantage

you either want the product or you don't ......how their product screws up difficulty or your expectations summer and beyond  is irrelevant

and back to my decision punt or keep the neptunes with this further option...such as it is the only thing they are offering

there is also still a chance they will deliver neptunes on time and still say they will only mine themselves 5% or whatever it was of the network and also
offer gh farm hosting for virtual neptunes after they ship the neputnes etc....smart business imho they pull that off if it hurts small miners....well tough from a
business point of view

and from a business point of view ..the only thing wrong with that is they probably gave everyone too much notice to be a good business decision if you
had business types look over the plan..they could have sat on this another month imho easy

small miners are gonna be toast soon...this is just a flare to announce such

anyway I and others have to decide if a Neptune any batch is worth it or is it time get a refund

other then that the rest of these large entities banging around like large elephants to find their new footing

might be time to just refund buy btc and make this a sideline sport

Searing

Searing


Searing

[de_ixie]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

[lemonte]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

[de_ixie]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

There were three batches... call them however you want to call them

Edit: Most close would be I guess

Batch 1 (CA), 1200 Units 3-4 weeks before
Batch 1 (General), 1200 Units 1 month before
Batch 2 (General), 1200 Units delivery Q2

[Searing]

They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

The problem isn't what they do AFTER the neptunes ship, it's that they are bringing online hashrate in advance of future sales, and that hashrate devalues existing and future purchases.

your point? I mean they always were gonna screw up the hashrate they all are they are asic mnfg companies....knc offered with their network plan to slow the diff down somewhat with the other mnfg asic makers...so....you really think cointerra or bfl with mass production is gonna slow down...I expect we will be at batch 12 or some such with cointerra this fall...so imho it is a moot point after the neptunes is just that after.....now they have a quicker way to sell hash and keep the equip no need to announce and wait 5 months in knc's case to get something...if nothing else it ALL IS GONNA GET EVEN MORE NUTS as far as difficulty etc hash etc.....they probably all are gonna go virtual and then the race will really be on

at best with knc if they made physical equip in fall or future we would have had a lag...there is no more lag imho it is balls to the wall difficulty wise imho

now if BTC price can keep up or not is a different question imho

Searing

[arlekyn13]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

[Biomech]

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  

Why will no one see a working Neptune? I will be having mine delivered, regardless of the data centre.

I can almost guarantee that we will ultimately never be given the option of delivery for whatever bullshit reason they conjure up.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced it will come true.  Someone please convince me that I'm crazy and I'll book an appointment for a shrink right now!

why? what's wrong with crazy?

[lemonte]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.

[jelin1984]

the problem is that
first batch must delivery at q1 at last

so i think that people which pay for batch 1(zero 0) batch

must at end of q1

hashing with knc data center

because it is impossible to have his miners 20nm

so these is the good news from batch 0 nepture people

[arlekyn13]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.

No, I'm not sure and I think you are actually right. The "appreciation" was about price reduction rather than early delivery. So batch 1 could expect delivery, either physically or virtual, around 1st of June. Argh, don't even want to think what the difficulty will be by that time

[de_ixie]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.

Yep - they sold us (me) CA with the words: These units will be delivered 3-4 weeks before any machine will be delivered to the general puplic. As a gift for funding their company from day zero. But you also let me doubt that point now   Darn, maybe I got tricked.

[cap1]

I'm actually considering getting a refund. The viability of a miner is starting to make little sense. Last month I made 52 bitcoins through trading altcoins -> bitcoins. My two neptunes I have on order will take a considerably amount of time to make that (if ever). The $20k+ I have sunk into the neptunes I can turn into higher returns much quicker without overheads. $1600 spent also on 4 x 1500w PSUs already for these units.

It is not looking like feb will deliver. Running through potential returns from the hosted contract (whenever that is? again very vague) makes the whole opportunity a waste of time and money when engaging with the crypto market as a whole.

Many miners are in it as they love the tech and the 'mining'. Its like getting a new car. You want to drive it and simply have it, take it for a spin, give it a clean on the weekends. You don't want your mate to own it (after you paid full ticket price) and offer to drive you wherever whenever you want. The same logic applies.

If it's purely about the money then mining is illogical against the current crypto landscape. I'm giving it two weeks and if not more actual dates materialise; then I am dumping the 2 Neptunes to buy some skanky alt coins to flip.

[CeeCee]

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.

Yep - they sold us (me) CA with the words: These units will be delivered 3-4 weeks before any machine will be delivered to the general puplic. As a gift for funding their company from day zero. But you also let me doubt that point now   Darn, maybe I got tricked.

you are still right its just lemonte who seems to be confused! not us!

[arlekyn13]

Well, to be honest, I don't clearly remember. Maybe it was some 2-3 weeks period mentioned? Thing is, if KNC would REALLY want to say a big THANK YOU to their Oct/Nov customers, they could just start hashing right away for their customers, until Neptunes are released. "But, wait, this would mean profit for the customers?! In BTC?! Neah, fuck'em, let's just mine for ourselves as long as our sale terms allow us!". I bet there will be some "smart" guys coming in here and say: "Look, I love KNC, they gave me the most fucking awesome deal ever: I mined 5 BTC with my Neptune! And I only paid USD 13k for it, while my 5 BTC are now worth $(insert any amount greater than $13k here due to BTC price increase)"

[The Avenger]

"We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets..."

Did you all notice the use of gambling terminology?

I assume they mean the gamble is they are using the mark-up/profits from Neptune to fund the datacentre, before they even deliver neptune. That IS a gamble.

I guess it's hedged against the fact they will easily have enough hashing power in that datacentre to offer it to people if they fail to deliver neptune.

But they are taking the stockbroker approach - they are gambling your money, not their own. So if they lose, it's egg on their face, but no financial loss.

What a great position to be in, to gamble with other people's money.

So, as I've been saying since December, you've got to be sure they are working out a way to stop people from getting refund's, (as Plan B has probably caused just about as many as they hoped it would stop   ).

KNC can't gamble without your money - stop asking for refunds!

Already it seems they are making it very difficult, pushing the refund process out 10 days at a time through paperwork.

So you gotta assume this is part of the bigger plan to stop refunds entirely.

They got it sewn up for batch 2 by not offering it. It's just you batch 1 guys they have to deal with.

And if knc act in future the way they have done in the past, you'll remember they stopped people from getting refunds in September, before they shipped a single device, totally breaking they "refunds up to shipping" pledge, because they were taking quite a hit from refunds.

This, from 27th September 2013, when I still vaguely believed in KNC:

3. Sam paid out $31k refund on the 24th, which might have had a big influence on stopping refunds. He could easily have put the no refunds in place 24th and told them to get lost. I think it shows integrity that as late as 24th, he paid out such a massive refund. Many companies (who will remain nameless) would try to worm out of it.

Integrity? What was I thinking?  

In the past, they broke their "refunds up to shipping" pledge after giving some big refunds. Just sayin. Don't say you haven't been (fore)warned.

[raskul]

"We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets..."

Did you all notice the use of gambling terminology?

I assume they mean the gamble is they are using the mark-up/profits from Neptune to fund the datacentre, before they even deliver neptune. That IS a gamble.

But they are taking the stockbroker approach - they are gambling your money, not their own. So if they lose, it's egg on their face, but no financial loss.

What a great position to be in, to gamble with other people's money.

So, as I've been saying since December, you've got to be sure they are working out a way to stop people from getting refund's, (as Plan B has probably caused just about as many as they hoped it would stop   ).

KNC can't gamble without your money - stop asking for refunds!

Already it seems they are making it very difficult, pushing the refund process out 10 days at a time through paperwork.

So you gotta assume this is part of the bigger plan to stop refunds entirely.

They got it sewn up for batch 2 by not offering it. It's just you batch 1 guys they have to deal with.

And if knc act in future the way they have done in the past, you'll remember they stopped people from getting refunds in September, before they shipped a single device, totally breaking they "refunds up to shipping" pledge, because they were taking quite a hit from refunds.

This, from 27th September 2013, when I still vaguely believed in KNC:

3. Sam paid out $31k refund on the 24th, which might have had a big influence on stopping refunds. He could easily have put the no refunds in place 24th and told them to get lost. I think it shows integrity that as late as 24th, he paid out such a massive refund. Many companies (who will remain nameless) would try to worm out of it.

Integrity? What was I thinking?  

In the past, they broke their "refunds up to shipping" pledge after giving some big refunds. Just sayin. Don't say you haven't been (fore)warned.

FUD, as usual.

[The Avenger]

FUD, as usual.

Ah, the scottish scammer rears his ugly head in the knc thread. Welcome.