Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[soy]

Hell what infuriates me is that KNCs position is:

We aren't selling any upgrade modules to the people that launched our company, but we are going to manufacture hundreds or even thousands of them for ourselves and not sell our customers a single one because we want all the money for ourselves.

Its like they are saying:

"if you bought an upgradeable Mercury and you didn't get modules when we sold them for 7 minutes last year, well screw you!"

So glad I didnt get on the Neptune bandwagon. Amazing how greed and success gets to you and you forget who "brought you to the dance"

'Orama is a good man and I know he is embarrassed for KNC.

They may have changed their production SMT machine(s) to the new VRM and for reasons of their own don't want machines to have a mixture of old VRM module boards and new VRM module boards.

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[Syke]

All correct - still - in case KnC provides 3 TH for CA batch in - lets say mid of April - I still consider it a good deal - virtual or nonvirtual. This is for sure under the assumption they have honest motives, which a lot of people in here doubt (me not btw).

Delivery is scheduled for "Q1/Q2". There's no way they are starting the hosting before end of Q2.

[soy]

Which begs the questions, if they had already changed their SMT machines to the new VRMs in November when the old VRM modules were available for the one-time sale, did they only have enough on hand to fill vacant module positions on Mercurys and Saturns and if so, knowing that Jupiter owners seeing two available ribbon cable sockets already populated which would allow them to upgrade 4 module Jupiters to 6 module Jupiters would jump at the chance to buy the old VRM modules, why offer them to all pre-existing customers instead of just offering them to Mercury and Saturn owners first?  It would have been clear there would be a shortfall.  Had KnC decided to change its perceived relationship with its customers?  The decision makers sitting around a table planning the sale should have and would have weighed these questions.

[soy]

Maybe the exploding capacitors (not properly shutting down and restarting while casually unplugging and replugging pci-e connectors) or exploded incoming electrical service boxes made them feel customer/owners have become a liability.

Like some peoples who evolved in very northern climes have a linkage between that aspect of the fight-or-flee-mechanism which results in higher energy usage (generating heat) but with the effect of causing distress more easily when smoking pot or a tendency to alcoholism (Iceland, Russia tho not true of Mediterranean stock).  So, pot for them is not a good idea but for fairness pot is illegal for all in some locales.  A non-tech owner of a Jupiter casually unplugging and replugging pci-e connectors blowing up boards makes us all a liability for KnC would be similar.

[The Avenger]

A non-tech owner of a Jupiter casually unplugging and replugging pci-e connectors blowing up boards makes us all a liability for KnC would be similar.

It's a shame knc never heard of a "fuse" and built one in - probably would have saved them millions.

Or if they'd done that 5 minute burn-in they promised, probably could have saved themselves a few million on RMA costs.

Just don't go blaming the "non-tech owners", like it's their fault if KNC hate their customers. KNC sell to ANYONE, remember? If they are happy to take consumers money, (while forcing a b2b warranty on them), they just got to suck it up.

They are declaring $15million company profits. You can be pretty sure the same or even more left the company via dividends or salary or bonuses to the head honcho's. They ain't going to starve.

[ncs0ne]

KNC offers 3 options to all fully paid Neptune customers.

source: http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-offers-plan-b-case-neptune-miner-delivery-delay/



does this mean a 6 month contract costs $9,995

WTF ?!!

I assume this is a f'ing joke  

At least it is in contrast to the latest news, Plan B was until now:
(in case) we will be late, you get 3TH/s (and not those 11% more btw) until Neptune is ready to ship.

Plan B

(...)
 
To make sure that everyone who has paid for their Neptune gets their hashing power we are building a data centre (...)
 
If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers. (...)

[soy]

So, does this mean that if we opt to wait and receive our Neptune we will get a compensatory 3TH hashing at their pool until the Neptune is shipped to us?  

That would mean as if getting the Neptune on June 1.

I understand luck on the pool I use has been poor lately but looking at a return on 12/5,6,7/13 and 2/5,6,7/14 then disregarding any change expected to network hashrate due to a KnC northern Sweden Jupiter farm, and calculating a similar reduction for 6/5,6,7/14, and expected ratio of 285,000MH/s to 3,600,000MH/s, it would start out making less than my Merc w/1_upgrade module makes today.  Unless I'm mistaken and I've been know to make mistakes.

But immediate resale upon arrival is possible, likely at a huge markup.  On the other hand if KnC's rational for not wanting to sell is a liability issue shouldn't a reseller feel the same?

[ncs0ne]

So, does this mean that if we opt to wait and receive our Neptune we will get a compensatory 3TH hashing at their pool until the Neptune is shipped to us?  
(...)

As I read it:
NO, that's not an option as it would be a combo of option 1 and 3.


1) When you decide to wait it would mean watching the diff sky rocking

2) For a refund, now is a better point in time than in summer I assume.

3) And when you decide for the hosting, one might pay >2.500$ a month for cloud-shit (based on 12.995 with 19-25%VAT and shipping) and will never see a physical device. In addition you only get 3TH/s, but they already said Neptune will be at least 11% faster.

[soy]

So, does this mean that if we opt to wait and receive our Neptune we will get a compensatory 3TH hashing at their pool until the Neptune is shipped to us?  
(...)

As I read it:
NO, that's not an option as it would be a combo of option 1 and 3.


1) When you decide to wait it would mean watching the diff sky rocking

2) For a refund, now is a better point in time than in summer I assume.

3) And when you decide for the hosting, one might pay >2.500$ a month for cloud-shit (based on 12.995 with 19-25%VAT and shipping) and will never see a physical device. In addition you only get 3TH/s, but they already said Neptune will be at least 11% faster.

I don't disagree.  The only upside might be the writing on the wall bringing new hash buying to a halt.

[Micky25]

Keith (kncminer)
Feb 07 15:12

We have not been manufacturing 28nm miners since the shipping of the November batch completed. Our first priority is to develop and produce the 20nm Neptune miners and plan B will be put in place as a backup.

I'm a little surprised about that. I believe the November Jupiters are the most effectiv ASIC miners on this world at the moment and I thought KNC recognized that as well and filled byteminr with them after they stopped selling to the public. But well, it seems I've been wrong.

What I really don't understand (sorry if this was discussed before):

Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.

if "Plan A" is sucessfull, what happens to "Plan B"? Will it just not be switched on? Or run over by bulldozers?

[ncs0ne]

The mine will be filled with current 28nm.
In addition they want to build another one in the same area for the Neptunes.

Plan A was deliver on time and then their mine will be used by themselves I guess or offered as cloud-hashing product.


I'm going to ask customer support for clarification regarding the coindesk article.
I can't believe it's true, coindesk must have misunderstood sth because knc's website still claims
 "If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers."

[soy]

Well, Russians will be opting for the hosting plan.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/07/russia-bans-bitcoin/?utm_campaign=fb&ncid=fb

[RoadStress]

Bitcoinorama please post additional clarification regarding Plan B!

[soy]

I wonder if KnC would consider sending a refund to a MtGox account, or splitting a refund partly to a MtGox account and partly to a US bank account.

[The Avenger]

I like when things move fast - I get proven correct more quickly

First of all we paid for a 20nm product. If they deliver only cloud hashing then they are in big troubles.

Doesn't look like it? Refund, wait or you are one of knc's new cloud hashing customers. No trouble to them, now they've figured out a very good way to f#@k, I mean, help everyone.

Second of all why would knc host for free and for life 3600 neptune customers?

I think they cleared that up - you only get 6 months. I guess that's how long they expect any of their hardware to last. Or you could wait until September/October/November/December/2015 for an actual 20nm, when it will be more than useless. Who will wait 3/4/5/6/7 months, when they can have their 3TH when promised, albeit without the actual hardware they paid for? Your butt might feel sore, but at least it hashes 

There is no logic in offering cloud hashing instead of products.

I'm sure you can see now there is, for knc. They own the assets, you own a very small digital share in those assets for 6 months, until their "debt" to you is paid. Then you own nothing. And they have an entire datacentre, full of hardware, paid for on your dime. Plenty logic, if you are part of the (must bring back the phrase):

Swedish bitcoin mafia.

[wasubii]

Well, Russians will be opting for the hosting plan.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/07/russia-bans-bitcoin/?utm_campaign=fb&ncid=fb

Is this why BTC/USD is falling again?

I've got buy orders at $700, $675, $650 and a biggie at $601

Let the drop continue!!!

[AFox]

I wonder if KnC would consider sending a refund to a MtGox account, or splitting a refund partly to a MtGox account and partly to a US bank account.

KNC refunds only in $, directly to your bank account, they don't refund in BTC.

[vesperwillow]

Well, Russians will be opting for the hosting plan.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/07/russia-bans-bitcoin/?utm_campaign=fb&ncid=fb

Is this why BTC/USD is falling again?

I've got buy orders at $700, $675, $650 and a biggie at $601

Let the drop continue!!!

Started lastnight, or more accurately, while Asia was awake. Related to exchange issues maybe, as well as the fact Russia announced it doesn't like it a day or 2 ago?

[RoadStress]

Second of all why would knc host for free and for life 3600 neptune customers?

I think they cleared that up - you only get 6 months. I guess that's how long they expect any of their hardware to last. Or you could wait until September/October/November/December/2015 for an actual 20nm, when it will be more than useless. Who will wait 3/4/5/6/7 months, when they can have their 3TH when promised, albeit without the actual hardware they paid for? Your butt might feel sore, but at least it hashes 

There is no logic in offering cloud hashing instead of products.

I'm sure you can see now there is, for knc. They own the assets, you own a very small digital share in those assets for 6 months, until their "debt" to you is paid. Then you own nothing. And they have an entire datacentre, full of hardware, paid for on your dime. Plenty logic, if you are part of the (must bring back the phrase):

They can't offer customers only 6 months of 3TH because customers haven't paid for this. It's simple. They will either offer lifetime virtual 3TH or an actual product. The question is if they will force either virtual hashing or wait for product. That would be extremely sick! But i think they won't force it. The best way is to just offer virtual hashing until they ship the product and then they remain with the hashing. It's a win win for all. More win would be if they don't start the farm at least until half June, but i don't expect that to happen at this point.

[vesperwillow]

Second of all why would knc host for free and for life 3600 neptune customers?

I think they cleared that up - you only get 6 months. I guess that's how long they expect any of their hardware to last. Or you could wait until September/October/November/December/2015 for an actual 20nm, when it will be more than useless. Who will wait 3/4/5/6/7 months, when they can have their 3TH when promised, albeit without the actual hardware they paid for? Your butt might feel sore, but at least it hashes 

There is no logic in offering cloud hashing instead of products.

I'm sure you can see now there is, for knc. They own the assets, you own a very small digital share in those assets for 6 months, until their "debt" to you is paid. Then you own nothing. And they have an entire datacentre, full of hardware, paid for on your dime. Plenty logic, if you are part of the (must bring back the phrase):

They can't offer customers only 6 months of 3TH because customers haven't paid for this. It's simple. They will either offer lifetime virtual 3TH or an actual product. The question is if they will force either virtual hashing or wait for product. That would be extremely sick! But i think they won't force it. The best way is to just offer virtual hashing until they ship the product and then they remain with the hashing. It's a win win for all. More win would be if they don't start the farm at least until half June, but i don't expect that to happen at this point.

They stated the offer of 3TH of equivalent hosted mining would be for Neptune preorders if they were late, and only for the duration for which they are late--IE, up until they ship. So they clearly expect to be late, but not more than 6 months.