Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[joeventura]

The heatsinks being held on with wire is indication that KNC is doing just that in their data center.

Which means one of two things, they sent you boards from their data center or they were just stupid enough think "if it works in our data center it should work in your house after being shipped around the world.

[merv77]

i'm in same boat waiting for refund since 14th April
on 24th April I emailed them (Natalie) and saying if it would be easier for them to pay me in BTC with my BTC addess in email,
and she replied now will be refunded in BTC instead of USD via bank transfer.  
If they were to refund me via bank transfer it would have to be in AUD not USD as I'm in Australia.  

but still waiting for BTC to be refunded.

Either knc sending bank will convert the usd to aud or your bank will receive usd and convert to aud.  May be a small conversion fee

thanks,
never had money (USD) transferred into my account before.

anyway, last email from KNC said that they will refund in BTC now.
I will re-post when I receive it.

[RoadStress]

Call every frickin hour of every day until you get your money back.

be the first person they talk to in the morning and the last they talk to at the end of the day.

I love how people have thousands or tens of thousands hanging in the balance and they won't make a pest of themselves.

It's like fighting a war, you keep escalating until you get what you want:

1. Start with emails
2. Then call
3. Then call 10 times a day
4. Then call 20 times a day (keep repeating this step during steps 5-8)
5. Go to THEIR forum on their website and post a message in every thread until you get thrown off then start a new account and repeat.
6. Then FedEx/DHL them a demand letter
7. Then contact local news media in their area
8. Then contact a lawyer.


You are at step 2.

Note no where in this list does it say "Complain on a forum where KNC never visits"

Instead of calling 10 times a day then 20 times a day and then repeating that i would rather hop on a plane and fill a complain with the police and the commerce authority and then i would contact a lawyer. Calling them just to get the same answer and to spend money on phone bills won't rush things up. Complains and lawyers may rush things!

[s1gs3gv]

I hate to be the one to break the news to you fellas, but bitcoin @ $1 is just as useful as bitcoin @ $400.

True for small transactions, however...

With Bitcoin at $1 it would be impossible to transfer $22 million in value, because there aren't enough bitcoins. The higher value bitcoin is in fiat, the larger a transaction can be.

Another example: a wealthy person wants to store $22 million or more of their wealth in bitcoin. Couldn't be done with bitcoin at $1. The higher value bitcoin is in fiat, the more wealth we can store in bitcoin.

Same thing for 22 million people each trying to store $1 of wealth in bitcoin.  Or 220 million people trying to store $0.1 of wealth in bitcoin, etc. Couldn't be done with bitcoin at $1.

The utility of bitcoin to the world as a whole rises as its fiat value per coin rises.  We need bitcoins to be worth a lot (say $100k to $1m+) per coin to be useful to the world's population because there are so few coins (only ever 21 million will be made).

Well, maybe we'll have to use DOGE then L)L

[s1gs3gv]

P.S. Don't forget KNC have said they are hoping to set up 2 more datorhall's, pretty much as soon as they can. So you'd have to assume they are waiting for Neptune to be ready and then they will build them asap. So those who don't think the difficulty will sky-rocket are fooling themselves. And those who get later batch Neptunes are screwed, regardless if you get one or two.

Presumably if this is true it is equally true for those who purchase Spondoolies SP30 machines.

[samsonn25]

P.S. Don't forget KNC have said they are hoping to set up 2 more datorhall's, pretty much as soon as they can. So you'd have to assume they are waiting for Neptune to be ready and then they will build them asap. So those who don't think the difficulty will sky-rocket are fooling themselves. And those who get later batch Neptunes are screwed, regardless if you get one or two.

Presumably if this is true it is equally true for those who purchase Spondoolies SP30 machines.

YEs

[joeventura]

Call every frickin hour of every day until you get your money back.

be the first person they talk to in the morning and the last they talk to at the end of the day.

I love how people have thousands or tens of thousands hanging in the balance and they won't make a pest of themselves.

It's like fighting a war, you keep escalating until you get what you want:

1. Start with emails
2. Then call
3. Then call 10 times a day
4. Then call 20 times a day (keep repeating this step during steps 5-8)
5. Go to THEIR forum on their website and post a message in every thread until you get thrown off then start a new account and repeat.
6. Then FedEx/DHL them a demand letter
7. Then contact local news media in their area
8. Then contact a lawyer.


You are at step 2.

Note no where in this list does it say "Complain on a forum where KNC never visits"

Instead of calling 10 times a day then 20 times a day and then repeating that i would rather hop on a plane and fill a complain with the police and the commerce authority and then i would contact a lawyer. Calling them just to get the same answer and to spend money on phone bills won't rush things up. Complains and lawyers may rush things!

Phone calls are cheaper than lawyers and plane tickets.

[The Avenger]

P.S. Don't forget KNC have said they are hoping to set up 2 more datorhall's, pretty much as soon as they can. So you'd have to assume they are waiting for Neptune to be ready and then they will build them asap. So those who don't think the difficulty will sky-rocket are fooling themselves. And those who get later batch Neptunes are screwed, regardless if you get one or two.

Presumably if this is true it is equally true for those who purchase Spondoolies SP30 machines.

Of course. All pre-orders of more than 1 month are extremely risky. The longer the wait, the bigger the risk. I've said it before - if you are going to take risky gambles, you should be looking for big rewards for assuming the big risk. None of these pre-orders is going to pay off in a BIG way. So to me, it's not worth taking the risk in the first place. At this point in the mining hardware game, it's all chasing pennies with dollars.

Why would you hodl a pre-order machine not due for another 2-5 months, unless you have money to burn or like to hack hardware? tolip_wen is the only person who should be keeping their Neptune order, as he'll get about $10k worth of pleasure dissecting, measuring, probing and hacking his Neptune Anyone in it for the money, it makes no sense to hodl.

I think those who refund the Neptune and bought 20BTC have already got the best possible outcome if they are interested in BTC. As BTC is around $450 right now, it's still a great time to get out and buy coins instead of trying to mine them.

I very much doubt the SP30 or 2xNeptunes will mine you more then 20BTC, when all costs are taken into account. The chances of them mining less is extremely high, given the possibility of delays, faulty hardware, idiotic design choices, new players entering the market, greed etc.

[mtbitcoin]

I think that i managed to get my e-mail blocked by knc support system after flooding them with e-mail asking them when will they refund me.

I know that they are reading this and i do know that they are holding my refund in order to not get into my Group Buy, but that would be very stupid since sending the money today i will only get them on friday or next week. Don't worry knc i can make plenty of free emails to start flooding you with the same question:

WHEN WILL YOU REFUND ME???

Well if its any consolation, my refund request was made around 3 weeks ago and still no funds yet...

[RoadStress]

I think that i managed to get my e-mail blocked by knc support system after flooding them with e-mail asking them when will they refund me.

I know that they are reading this and i do know that they are holding my refund in order to not get into my Group Buy, but that would be very stupid since sending the money today i will only get them on friday or next week. Don't worry knc i can make plenty of free emails to start flooding you with the same question:

WHEN WILL YOU REFUND ME???

Well if its any consolation, my refund request was made around 3 weeks ago and still no funds yet...

Ok I DID call them and i have requested the refund in bitcoins since it will be faster than the wire transfer. They will refund me at the bitstamp's exchange rate for the day when the refund is done. Keith said a couple of days. With a bit of luck I may get my refund this week! Back to waiting game.

[Biffa]

I think that i managed to get my e-mail blocked by knc support system after flooding them with e-mail asking them when will they refund me.

I know that they are reading this and i do know that they are holding my refund in order to not get into my Group Buy, but that would be very stupid since sending the money today i will only get them on friday or next week. Don't worry knc i can make plenty of free emails to start flooding you with the same question:

WHEN WILL YOU REFUND ME???

Well if its any consolation, my refund request was made around 3 weeks ago and still no funds yet...

Ok I DID call them and i have requested the refund in bitcoins since it will be faster than the wire transfer. They will refund me at the bitstamp's exchange rate for the day when the refund is done. Keith said a couple of days. With a bit of luck I may get my refund this week! Back to waiting game.

Hope it works out for you RoadStress.

[Cablez]

Friend of mine just sent me this, been waiting 15 days already. Emphasis mine.

We are terribly sorry for delay with processing your refund. Finance department is extremely busy and the bank transfer refund might take few weeks.

Things don't smell to good in KNC land.

[mtbitcoin]

I think that i managed to get my e-mail blocked by knc support system after flooding them with e-mail asking them when will they refund me.

I know that they are reading this and i do know that they are holding my refund in order to not get into my Group Buy, but that would be very stupid since sending the money today i will only get them on friday or next week. Don't worry knc i can make plenty of free emails to start flooding you with the same question:

WHEN WILL YOU REFUND ME???

Well if its any consolation, my refund request was made around 3 weeks ago and still no funds yet...

Ok I DID call them and i have requested the refund in bitcoins since it will be faster than the wire transfer. They will refund me at the bitstamp's exchange rate for the day when the refund is done. Keith said a couple of days. With a bit of luck I may get my refund this week! Back to waiting game.

I've asked for BTC refunds in the past they stated they would not do so for single orders. Wonder what changed then ?

[joeventura]

I think that i managed to get my e-mail blocked by knc support system after flooding them with e-mail asking them when will they refund me.

I know that they are reading this and i do know that they are holding my refund in order to not get into my Group Buy, but that would be very stupid since sending the money today i will only get them on friday or next week. Don't worry knc i can make plenty of free emails to start flooding you with the same question:

WHEN WILL YOU REFUND ME???

Well if its any consolation, my refund request was made around 3 weeks ago and still no funds yet...

Ok I DID call them and i have requested the refund in bitcoins since it will be faster than the wire transfer. They will refund me at the bitstamp's exchange rate for the day when the refund is done. Keith said a couple of days. With a bit of luck I may get my refund this week! Back to waiting game.

It will work out.

[RealMalatesta]

Friend of mine just sent me this, been waiting 15 days already. Emphasis mine.

We are terribly sorry for delay with processing your refund. Finance department is extremely busy and the bank transfer refund might take few weeks.

Things don't smell to good in KNC land.

Well, if their finance department is extremely busy, they should use an invention which is already a couple of years old: Online banking. If they knew how quickly you can transfer funds from one account to the other with this invention, they would be astonished....


However: Legally speaking, they MUST transfer the funds within 30 days without ANY deduction. This is according to the laws in Europe, and they have to comply. If they transfer the money just one day later, you can file a lawsuit. ANY costs for this lawsuit will have to be paid by KnC for it was them who did not comply with the law.

I have sent out my request for a refund yesterday and have received a response that they will transfer it to the financial department. Frankly: I do not give an ants-eye where they do transfer my request to. They have to  comply. That's all.

In case they should transfer the money with any delay, I will certainly file a suit not only against the company, but also against the persons behind it. This will probably not help me to get my money, but the fact that I can file the suit in ANY European country and - if there are more than one suits filed - ask for an arrest of the responsible persons, it would come as a surprise to some of the KnC-crew-members that they all the sudden will not be able to travel anymore.

While this may sound harsh, I'm really fed up with companies announcing hardware, cashing in asap, delivering crappy hardware as "compensation" and ignoring their clients.

Just remember: They sold miners for 13 million US$ in four hours. And they didn't give their clients a payment window of 30 days - it was "order and pay". Meanwhile, they have invested the money for building one of the worlds biggest data centers in an former helicopter hangar for mining Bitcoins. So no mercy....

[RoadStress]

Friend of mine just sent me this, been waiting 15 days already. Emphasis mine.

We are terribly sorry for delay with processing your refund. Finance department is extremely busy and the bank transfer refund might take few weeks.

Things don't smell to good in KNC land.

Well, if their finance department is extremely busy, they should use an invention which is already a couple of years old: Online banking. If they knew how quickly you can transfer funds from one account to the other with this invention, they would be astonished....


However: Legally speaking, they MUST transfer the funds within 30 days without ANY deduction. This is according to the laws in Europe, and they have to comply. If they transfer the money just one day later, you can file a lawsuit. ANY costs for this lawsuit will have to be paid by KnC for it was them who did not comply with the law.

I have sent out my request for a refund yesterday and have received a response that they will transfer it to the financial department. Frankly: I do not give an ants-eye where they do transfer my request to. They have to  comply. That's all.

In case they should transfer the money with any delay, I will certainly file a suit not only against the company, but also against the persons behind it. This will probably not help me to get my money, but the fact that I can file the suit in ANY European country and - if there are more than one suits filed - ask for an arrest of the responsible persons, it would come as a surprise to some of the KnC-crew-members that they all the sudden will not be able to travel anymore.

While this may sound harsh, I'm really fed up with companies announcing hardware, cashing in asap, delivering crappy hardware as "compensation" and ignoring their clients.

Just remember: They sold miners for 13 million US$ in four hours. And they didn't give their clients a payment window of 30 days - it was "order and pay". Meanwhile, they have invested the money for building one of the worlds biggest data centers in an former helicopter hangar for mining Bitcoins. So no mercy....

I told Anna on the phone that it takes 5 minutes to send a refund from an online banking account and she told me that there are A LOT of paper that needs to be filled for the refund. I suspect that somehow sending refunds via wire transfers messes with their financial reports. KnC is almost one year one and they want to have pretty numbers in the financial books. Sending a refund in bitcoins doesn't have to be included in the books so it's better for them.

[murraypaul]

However: Legally speaking, they MUST transfer the funds within 30 days without ANY deduction. This is according to the laws in Europe, and they have to comply. If they transfer the money just one day later, you can file a lawsuit. ANY costs for this lawsuit will have to be paid by KnC for it was them who did not comply with the law.

Which laws?
(Remembering that you have contracted as a business)

In case they should transfer the money with any delay, I will certainly file a suit not only against the company, but also against the persons behind it. This will probably not help me to get my money, but the fact that I can file the suit in ANY European country and

Unless you can show cause otherwise, KNC have the right to be sued in their own country, just like any other defendant.

- if there are more than one suits filed - ask for an arrest of the responsible persons, it would come as a surprise to some of the KnC-crew-members that they all the sudden will not be able to travel anymore.

I'd love to see the 'European law' that you think says that if more than one lawsuit is filed against someone, you can have them arrested.
It certainly would come as a surprise to KNC.

Don't take legal advice from random strangers on the internet, people.

[RealMalatesta]

I told Anna on the phone that it takes 5 minutes to send a refund from an online banking account and she told me that there are A LOT of paper that needs to be filled for the refund. I suspect that somehow sending refunds via wire transfers messes with their financial reports. KnC is almost one year one and they want to have pretty numbers in the financial books. Sending a refund in bitcoins doesn't have to be included in the books so it's better for them.

Frankly: None of our business. If they have to tap-dance naked in front of the CEO before they release a payment or eat five packages of Smoerrebroed before they can release a payment is not interesting for me. I don't tell them about my itching scrotum. Because it hasn't anything to do with them sending out funds. So they should do what they have to do - sending out funds - and sort out the rest later or hire more people or go to Church every Sunday - whatever suits for them.

[RealMalatesta]

However: Legally speaking, they MUST transfer the funds within 30 days without ANY deduction. This is according to the laws in Europe, and they have to comply. If they transfer the money just one day later, you can file a lawsuit. ANY costs for this lawsuit will have to be paid by KnC for it was them who did not comply with the law.

Which laws?
(Remembering that you have contracted as a business)

In case they should transfer the money with any delay, I will certainly file a suit not only against the company, but also against the persons behind it. This will probably not help me to get my money, but the fact that I can file the suit in ANY European country and

Unless you can show cause otherwise, KNC have the right to be sued in their own country, just like any other defendant.

- if there are more than one suits filed - ask for an arrest of the responsible persons, it would come as a surprise to some of the KnC-crew-members that they all the sudden will not be able to travel anymore.

I'd love to see the 'European law' that you think says that if more than one lawsuit is filed against someone, you can have them arrested.
It certainly would come as a surprise to KNC.

Don't take legal advice from random strangers on the internet, people.

Directive 97/7/EC, Directive 85/577/EEC, Directive 1999/44/EC and Directive 93/13/EEC.

Need more?

[RoadStress]

Which laws?
(Remembering that you have contracted as a business)

But KnC accepted us as private persons. My invoice is under my name, not under a business name. They breached their own terms right from the start.