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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006393 times)
yelloyello
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May 15, 2014, 12:26:06 AM
 #33761

- refunding KNC
A lawsuit about refunding shall not stand at this moment, because there was no commitment about the time between a refund request and the payment. According to EU rules, the Judge agreed with 30 days (business payments) as reasonable. After this period you must send them a minimum of 3 letters in 21 days. After that, you have the right to start a lawsuit. There is a maximum of total 14% interest and costs, starting from the day that they are dilatory. Excluding the costs of your lawyer. Complaining after 3 weeks does not make sens, because in this case the Judge shall see you as a business because no-one spends 10K to watch cgminer night after night for fun.

- delivering Neptune
Buyers agreed with the delivery of physical machine in the period of Q1/Q2 2014, so the first of July is a good time to send them a minimum of 3 request letters in 21 days. After that, you have the right to start a lawsuit. There is a maximum of total 14% interest and costs, starting from the day that they are dilatory. Excluding the costs of your lawyer. You have the full right to reject "Plan B" because you bought a machine. You cannot be forced to accept cloudhashing because in the moment you bought the machine, you have the intention to buy a real machine delivered in hand, based on the information showed on the website. You had the impression of a real machine, not a totally different product. No matter if the Terms and Conditions has small letters about this change. Suppliers are not allowed to misguide customers. You can reject "Plan B" and demand for a real machine. And when the supplier cannot deliver, you can immediate demand a refund based on dilatory. Looking at the latest news from KNC, it seems that they are on track.

- delivering Jupiter
According to the terms and conditions, buyers must do an RMA request. The supplier has the right to investigate the product for a reasonable period of 8 days. After this period, the supplier is supposed to fix the problem, or to refund (the part) of the product as soon as possible, because of the specific nature of the product. Jupiter buyers have 90 days to request. When buyers are not satisfied with the solution, they must notice the supplier with a well-documented letter. When the supplier reject this letter, than its time for a lawsuit. You can tell the Judge that you want a refund because you have no longer trust in the supplier or you can force the supplier with a period to fix the problems. There is a maximum of 14% interest and cost, starting from the day that they reject your last letter. Excluding the costs of your lawyer.
>> when you receive your RMA parts, save your UPS letter, because for the RMA parts, a new warranty period of 90 days is starting, no matter what their Terms and Conditions tells. Mark your RMA cards an take a picture with the UPS letter and keep it in a save place.
>> I think there are not much Jupiter buyers, count the usernames on this forum and on the KNC forum. Maybe 30-40.
>> When you wanted a full refund without a difficult lawsuit, you had to send back the delivered boxes as soon as you received and opened it.

- Terms and Conditions
Companies can change their conditions, but they must send these new Terms and conditions to the customers and they must agree with the new terms. When they (the customers) not agree, they have 30 days the right to break the (buying) contract. So when you have a copy of these Terms and conditions, datet on the moment of payment, keep it save. For the Jupiter clients: at the moment you agreed with the Jupiter, you also accepted the actual (new) Terms and Conditions.

So starting a lawsuit now is too early, but preparing, case building and collecting knowledge, facts and evidence is a very good start.

In my case, I am a Jupiter client. I bought 3 TH. Monday I called for an RMA, en tomorrow I receive the replacement cards. Quick enough in 4 business days. So when my total reach 3Th+, I got what I payed for. But its my last machine that I payed upfront based on vague promises. My trust is gone and I've learned my lesson.

And please, forget the words "Underpromising and Overdelivering". They are allready dissapeared from their home-page.
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May 15, 2014, 12:27:16 AM
 #33762

So whats the latent update @minter , refunds or upgraded ?
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May 15, 2014, 12:57:29 AM
 #33763

- refunding KNC
A lawsuit about refunding shall not stand at this moment, because there was no commitment about the time between a refund request and the payment. According to EU rules, the Judge agreed with 30 days as reasonable. After this period you must send them a minimum of 3 letters in 21 days. After that, you have the right to start a lawsuit. There is a maximum of total 14% interest and costs, starting from the day that they are dilatory. Excluding the costs of your lawyer.

- delivering Neptune
Buyers agreed with the delivery of physical machine in the period of Q1/Q2 2014, so the first of July is a good time to send them a minimum of 3 request letters in 21 days. After that, you have the right to start a lawsuit. There is a maximum of total 14% interest and costs, starting from the day that they are dilatory. Excluding the costs of your lawyer. You have the full right to reject "Plan B" because you bought a machine. You cannot be forced to accept cloudhashing because in the moment you bought the machine, you have the intention to buy a real machine delivered in hand, based on the information showed on the website. You had the impression of a real machine, not a totally different product. No matter if the Terms and Conditions has small letters about this change. Suppliers are not allowed to misguide customers. You can reject "Plan B" and demand for a real machine. And when the supplier cannot deliver, you can immediate demand a refund based on dilatory.

- delivering Jupiter
According to the terms and conditions, buyers must do an RMA request. The supplier has the right to investigate the product for a reasonable period of 8 days. After this period, the supplier is supposed to fix the problem, or to refund (the part) of the product as soon as possible, because of the specific nature of the product. Jupiter buyers have 90 days to request. When buyers are not satisfied with the solution, they must notice the supplier with a well-documented letter. When the supplier reject this letter, than its time for a lawsuit. You can tell the Judge that you want a refund because you have no longer trust in the supplier or you can force the supplier with a period to fix the problems. There is a maximum of 14% interest and cost, starting from the day that they reject your last letter. Excluding the costs of your lawyer.
>> when you receive your RMA parts, save your UPS letter, because for the RMA parts, a new warranty period of 90 days is starting, no matter what their Terms and Conditions tells. Mark your RMA cards an take a picture with the UPS letter and keep it in a save place.
>> I think there are not much Jupiter buyers, count the usernames on this forum and on the KNC forum. Maybe 30-40.
>> When you wanted a full refund without a difficult lawsuit, you had to send back the delivered boxes as soon as you received and opened it.

- Terms and Conditions
Companies can change their conditions, but they must send these new Terms and conditions to the customers and they must agree with the new terms. When they (the customers) not agree, they have 30 days the right to break the (buying) contract. So when you have a copy of these Terms and conditions, datet on the moment of payment, keep it save. For the Jupiter clients: at the moment you agreed with the Jupiter, you also accepted the actual (new) Terms and Conditions.

So starting a lawsuit now is too early, but preparing, case building and collecting knowledge, facts and evidence is a very good start.


Did anyone get an email or letter that knc changed their T&C? I have a copy of their t&c that states there is a 12 month warranty on their products. If you look now they only state 3 month warranty. This should also be a red flag for ALL orders with them not just fail joops . Neppys, Titians etc etc.
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May 15, 2014, 01:17:00 AM
 #33764


Did anyone get an email or letter that knc changed their T&C? I have a copy of their t&c that states there is a 12 month warranty on their products. If you look now they only state 3 month warranty. This should also be a red flag for ALL orders with them not just fail joops . Neppys, Titians etc etc.

Maybe they had 12 months for Jupiters and now they have 3 months for Neptunes and Titans.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
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yelloyello
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May 15, 2014, 01:29:03 AM
 #33765


Did anyone get an email or letter that knc changed their T&C? I have a copy of their t&c that states there is a 12 month warranty on their products. If you look now they only state 3 month warranty. This should also be a red flag for ALL orders with them not just fail joops . Neppys, Titians etc etc.

Maybe they had 12 months for Jupiters and now they have 3 months for Neptunes and Titans.

That is the reason why KNC don't deliver with a contact plug. If there was a contact plug, according to the EU rules, suppliers are forced to give 2 years warranty, no matter what the Terms and Conditions are. Even Apple, they advertised with "one year warranty" and "you can buy an extra year warranty to make it 2 years". The European court forced Apple succesfully to give every customer in the EU 2 years full warranty without extra payment because the iPhone could not be used with the delivered loader. The delivered loader has a contact plug. So every product with a contact plug has standard 2 years of warranty in the EU, no matter where produced.
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May 15, 2014, 01:47:07 AM
 #33766


Did anyone get an email or letter that knc changed their T&C? I have a copy of their t&c that states there is a 12 month warranty on their products. If you look now they only state 3 month warranty. This should also be a red flag for ALL orders with them not just fail joops . Neppys, Titians etc etc.

Maybe they had 12 months for Jupiters and now they have 3 months for Neptunes and Titans.

That is the reason why KNC don't deliver with a contact plug. If there was a contact plug, according to the EU rules, suppliers are forced to give 2 years warranty, no matter what the Terms and Conditions are. Even Apple, they advertised with "one year warranty" and "you can buy an extra year warranty to make it 2 years". The European court forced Apple succesfully to give every customer in the EU 2 years full warranty without extra payment because the iPhone could not be used with the delivered loader. The delivered loader has a contact plug. So every product with a contact plug has standard 2 years of warranty in the EU, no matter where produced.

My question is: If they changed their T&C without notifying the customers of the change does that constitute a "Breach of Contract"?
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May 15, 2014, 02:21:47 AM
 #33767

Anyone got there btc refund after switching from wire ?
I requested a wire refund in beginning of April,  now changed to btc, still waiting for the refund.
All you get is a genetic bs email reply

I just changed mine from wire to BTC.    Originally requested the refund same as u, beginning of april.

On a different note, my two jupiters arrived from the hosting contract completion.   The fans were popped off from shipping but that was the only issue.   Popped them back on and fired up, both units running smoothly.    Nice they came through with two working Jupiters after the mess with the SuperJupe.

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May 15, 2014, 04:01:27 AM
 #33768

I just received my miner back from hosting and had assumed I would simply sell it.  Now I'm thinking I'll go ahead and just mine with it.  I haven't been following the thread so I'm sorry if this has been covered, but is it ok to run two powersupplies or do I really need to fork out the dough for a 1200W PS?

Thanks in advance.
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May 15, 2014, 05:04:48 AM
 #33769

I just received my miner back from hosting and had assumed I would simply sell it.  Now I'm thinking I'll go ahead and just mine with it.  I haven't been following the thread so I'm sorry if this has been covered, but is it ok to run two powersupplies or do I really need to fork out the dough for a 1200W PS?

Thanks in advance.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't use two PSUs.

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May 15, 2014, 05:35:29 AM
 #33770

In that news email they say on schedule etc etc Q1/Q2 . No wonder they aren't bothered about timing so much, they obviously developed a time machine because Q1 is well gone now.

The Jups etc. were KNC partnered with ORSOC, they made big play on this expertise. KNC were simply a marketing company with ORSOC doing the real work, and neither with experience of the nuts and bolts of manufacturing and what comes after like packing ( a skill they still seem not to have mastered). As we know, the tech side went great, the marketing went great...what each was good at. The rest, not good at all really.

So the current situation is KNC marketing again using every trick in the book to seperate customers and their cash. The same people looking after customers...no-one much. But why, after they did so well 1st time aren't ORSOC involved this time? The fact that they aren't seems important to me. At the very least it means that anything prior to this product may as well be another company and past engineering and design work is not to be used for predicting what is happening now because different people are involved as well as different product specs.

I hope anyone who saw the light had their cash back, those who still sing the song of fanboi deserve what they get Smiley

my feeling is from other comments by brock pierce on his involvement in the china operation of KNC and other things I've seen in bitcointalk
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Pierce and other places it looks like at least after january with the data center decision his 'group' has the
controls of knc..this is my view...but what the heck ...off i go speculating

 imho .he and his investment group....suddenly got a lot more clout with KNC probably around the time they
decided to expand into the large data center...somewhere around Dec IMHO ...the chip guys probably said they can not deploy chips fast enough to get to units to get to
customers to make money..at least at 28mm ..not to mention the 20mm development needed for Neptune....ie investment group steps in more money/co-sign loans whatever

so to hedge the bet that expanded farm with the excuse plan B..in case the chip guys were correct...

..as soon say around feb it became obvious they were making more money
then god on the farm due to the fact that amt/hasfast/conterra/bfl etc none of them showed anything much in spring 2014 with difficulty probably
way lower then their expectations when they first planned the farm

 all bets were off and screw us guys...tossed out of the KNC parade if not right away as swiftly as possible

now with BTC at 450 usd of so .....imho the investment group now brock pirece has even more  clout (notice KNC cloud, KNC wallet, KNC wanting to get into banking etc)

So they have moved on ..wrap up the Neptune process with equip (eventually) and/or virtual mining of the same .then data hall full speed ahead

again imho

I was confused by the Titan..but when you think about it ...it is 28mm based on the Jupiter box...so I expect when/if I get a Titan unit say aug/sept they will
announce their 28mm scrypt miner farm...ie swap up same arrangement in data center bitcoin boards out scrypt boards and viola...as the bitcoin 28mm
become paper weights..the 28mm boards for titans slip into place ...viola

anyway my ramblings ..but the shift was so rapid some kinda reshuffling and it is my guess the investment guys want to keep as many
marbles as they can..thus the shift to the big data farm ....again imho it makes no sense if they wanted to be a mnfg company and no one
else was shipping end of dec to spring ..hell we should have been able as they initially stated get upgrade boards and 28mm product etc

They decided they no longer wanted to be a manufacturer of consumer miners..they want to be a consumer of their own products....again my view.

the fact they pulled the plug and did the data farm says a lot imho on who's really in charge with KNC and I don't think it is the guys we
dealt with on equip last fall..for all I know they said 'sure' and jumped on the parade float....

anyway my 'guess' on all this but imho it hangs together pretty well

only thing i'm sure of is eventually we will see a Titan Farm imho

Searing

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May 15, 2014, 06:05:00 AM
 #33771

If I may ask, how do you know that your payment were made out to KnC 20 nm AB? Did you by any chance pay by bank transfer?

I paid through BitPay and don't recall anything regarding that specific company name. It is a truly interesting observation on your part. This is one of the reasons I want to collect information on KNC's mining operations and their address' but the community didn't seem too keen on it. Fearmongering they say...

When I asked for their banking information, they wrote:

For Bank Transfers;
In the reference please add your order number only (no product name) so we can track your payment
Payment must be in USD.
Please use the following details:

Bank Name: SEB (Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken)
Account Name: KnC 20nm
IBAN (USD): SE3250000000054238221028
BIC/SWIFT: ESSESESS
Bank Address: SEB, Stureplan 2, 106 40 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
KnC 20nm AB address: Birger Jarlsgatan 33 5tr, Stockholm, 111 45, Sweden.

Once I have all the documents from the Swedish registry of commerce, I'll post them here.


I checked my bitpay link, according to that it was made out to


KnCMiner AB

birgerjarls gaten 33
Stockholm, sollentuna 11145
Sweden
support@knc



It is quite interesting to note that they used different receiver account depending on payment method...
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May 15, 2014, 06:34:25 AM
 #33772

Knc will soon get the same amount of complaints as BFL

http://www.coindesk.com/butterflylabs-customers-appeal-to-ftc-1-million-missing-orders/
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May 15, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
 #33773

Got my refund in BTC finally today morning!!! requested refund 28th of April. 450/ BTC

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May 15, 2014, 12:08:18 PM
 #33774

Refund received (BTC) today, requested Apr 9th. Done with this crap now.

Edit:

Exchange rate 452 USD/BTC
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May 15, 2014, 12:21:41 PM
 #33775

Full refund here too. I'm out.
Wish you all the best luck with the coming Neptune stats.
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May 15, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
 #33776

refund received in bitcoin for 1 neptune order today @ bitstamp rate

im out good luck to you all!!!!
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May 15, 2014, 03:13:01 PM
 #33777

Kurt (kncminer)
May 15 15:24

Hi ----

You have 7 replacement boards out of the 18 that are broken.
This means that you have 11 ASIC boards that are hashing fine, correct?

We can offer you an RMA for these boards, but we will require the original 18 boards back in return + the 7 replacement boards that are broken. Once we receive these, we can give you 7 replacement cards to bring you to your 3TH/s.

We will of course issue you with a shipping label and cover the costs on our side, so do not worry about that.

Please let me know if that is ok for you.

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Kurt Radcliffe
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com

Office: +46 8559 253 20



....Forget about these 18 boards, you publicly  told everyone to keep them.  I need an address to return this beaglebone please.  You shipped me broken and unsellable miners, I want these 7 boards replaced.  If we cant come to an agreement then I have no choice then to file lawsuit.
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May 15, 2014, 03:40:09 PM
 #33778

keep pushing them Smiley
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May 15, 2014, 05:02:41 PM
 #33779

Kurt (kncminer)
May 15 15:24

Hi ----

You have 7 replacement boards out of the 18 that are broken.
This means that you have 11 ASIC boards that are hashing fine, correct?

We can offer you an RMA for these boards, but we will require the original 18 boards back in return + the 7 replacement boards that are broken. Once we receive these, we can give you 7 replacement cards to bring you to your 3TH/s.

We will of course issue you with a shipping label and cover the costs on our side, so do not worry about that.

Please let me know if that is ok for you.

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Kurt Radcliffe
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com

Office: +46 8559 253 20



....Forget about these 18 boards, you publicly  told everyone to keep them.  I need an address to return this beaglebone please.  You shipped me broken and unsellable miners, I want these 7 boards replaced.  If we cant come to an agreement then I have no choice then to file lawsuit.


They said keep them but they have no way of knowing if you are trying to RMA boards from the first shipment so they ask for the entire first shipment and any bad boards from the 2nd shipment.  makes sense.   If they didn't you could have 18 good boards from the 2nd shipment and try RMAing ones from the first shipment.

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May 15, 2014, 06:31:52 PM
 #33780

Kurt (kncminer)
May 15 15:24

Hi ----

You have 7 replacement boards out of the 18 that are broken.
This means that you have 11 ASIC boards that are hashing fine, correct?

We can offer you an RMA for these boards, but we will require the original 18 boards back in return + the 7 replacement boards that are broken. Once we receive these, we can give you 7 replacement cards to bring you to your 3TH/s.

We will of course issue you with a shipping label and cover the costs on our side, so do not worry about that.

Please let me know if that is ok for you.

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Kurt Radcliffe
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com

Office: +46 8559 253 20



....Forget about these 18 boards, you publicly  told everyone to keep them.  I need an address to return this beaglebone please.  You shipped me broken and unsellable miners, I want these 7 boards replaced.  If we cant come to an agreement then I have no choice then to file lawsuit.


They said keep them but they have no way of knowing if you are trying to RMA boards from the first shipment so they ask for the entire first shipment and any bad boards from the 2nd shipment.  makes sense.   If they didn't you could have 18 good boards from the 2nd shipment and try RMAing ones from the first shipment.



I understand that but the ones I would be returning just dont work and there from the replacements, some have no damage and others just have one or two pieces missing and they dont work.  My problem is Ive already sent the worst ones away to try to be repaired and Ive ordered 8 more heatsinks.  Yes, Ill end up with more power then I bought, but I have no way of knowing how long they will last.  So if I shut all this shit off, Ill be out another 2 weeks of mining(no roi, unless price increase)sending it back on my own dime, cause i live in the middle of nowhere.  Only to receive another broken replacement package because they dont know how to safely send this shit.  I didnt ask for this shit, why am i still paying for this and why am i being told im ripping them off?
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