Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[ilati]

Great News Everyone! KNC is building a 2nd mining data center  20 MegaWatts!!!!!  Wowee!! Really glad to hear knc is doing well!!



                            


http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/11/06/knc-miner-to-build-another-20mw-for-bitcoin-mining-in-sweden/


Really happy for them

[cryptomole]

Just to let everyone know here that bought their cubes and don't live in Sweden.

I have just confirmed several lawsuits against KNC.
Personally, I'm among them. Being a swede and having contacted a lawyer specializing in helping civilians against big companies it is blatantly apparant that they have breached their own contract (and Swedish as well as European laws) on so many points that it would outright become a joke if they aren't convicted in Swedish court.

At this point however, I doubt KNC will reimburse anyone that isn't ready to sue them, which must suck for anyone outside of Sweden. If you have a home insurance here, it pays for the vast majority of the court costs, and no, KNC doesn't have dozens upon dozens of lawyers - it's one. A single one.
They aren't a vast multinational powerhouse able to ignore the laws, yet.

So if you have cubes coming but you want out of the horrific situation us Titan pre-orders are in then a successful lawsuit is pretty much the only way to go. Do under no circumstances accept the package, tell them to return it to the sender and that you don't want anything to do with it (if you're suing). Accepting the package is the game over in regards to getting your money back.

Personally I say ban KNC, gut their company for their criminal behavior and ostracize them internationally, then let them sit and adore their broken hardware like they deserve.

Even if I loose my lawsuit, I'm doing this to prove to all you guys that ordered a Titan but accepted the "no refund" crap they're pulling, that KNC isn't invulnerable only because they cite non-existing laws and then cite that their "lawyers" did everything by the book. It's complete BS and they really can't do what they are doing and get away with it (yet anyway, we'll see in court).
Like my lawyer told me; It would be a mockery of the law if they were to get their way.

I am from the UK and am appointing a swedish lawyer.
With regard to accepting the package - my advice is slightly different.
I had already asked KNC several times to cancel the order and give me a refund - they still sent package, It was actually signed by someone else in the property not me.
My solicitor doesnt see this as problem and has advised that I dont open the box and keep it safe for now.
But I am prepared to take the risk - win or no some people need to stand up against these crooks!

[cryptomole]

Titan owners need a judgement against KNC that INCLUDES PUNITIVE DAMAGES for deceptive advertising practices, late delivery and lost income. Not just a win, a victory.

I am not a lawyer but I'd expect KNC to appeal any such judgement hoping to avoid a precedent that would open the floodgates so any legal action against KNC is likely to be drawn out and expensive. Of course, KNC know we know this and they count on it as a deterrent. That is what allows them to abuse their customers with an attitude of impunity.

And there are still some Neptune customers waiting for refunds … KNC has been dragging their feet for many months in some cases. If you get an actual judgement against KNC you probably have a good chance of getting your money quickly but if they agree to a refund in order to avoid legal action your chances of a quick refund will depend on the agreement you make with KNC at the time. Given the opportunity, they will drag their feet.

On the other hand, they are likely to agree a refund when cornered in order to avoid a legal precedent. In this case, it is likely that KNC will attempt to get the plantiff's agreement to not disclose any settlement. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Shameful really ...

The problem is, and they may be relying on this, People have to make a decision early on, as soon as people start using their miners they have burned their bridges. So its only the people who reject or dont use their packages and launch a lawsuit in the early days who will possibly benefit from the result of a judgement - although this may set a precedent, there will likely be nobody left to take advantage of it. At this point KNC might decide to settle in relation to a small number of claims in the interest of damage limitation

[Searing]

Titan owners need a judgement against KNC that INCLUDES PUNITIVE DAMAGES for deceptive advertising practices, late delivery and lost income. Not just a win, a victory.

I am not a lawyer but I'd expect KNC to appeal any such judgement hoping to avoid a precedent that would open the floodgates so any legal action against KNC is likely to be drawn out and expensive. Of course, KNC know we know this and they count on it as a deterrent. That is what allows them to abuse their customers with an attitude of impunity.

And there are still some Neptune customers waiting for refunds … KNC has been dragging their feet for many months in some cases. If you get an actual judgement against KNC you probably have a good chance of getting your money quickly but if they agree to a refund in order to avoid legal action your chances of a quick refund will depend on the agreement you make with KNC at the time. Given the opportunity, they will drag their feet.

On the other hand, they are likely to agree a refund when cornered in order to avoid a legal precedent. In this case, it is likely that KNC will attempt to get the plantiff's agreement to not disclose any settlement. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Shameful really ...

The problem is, and they may be relying on this, People have to make a decision early on, as soon as people start using their miners they have burned their bridges. So its only the people who reject or dont use their packages and launch a lawsuit in the early days who will possibly benefit from the result of a judgement - although this may set a precedent, there will likely be nobody left to take advantage of it. At this point KNC might decide to settle in relation to a small number of claims in the interest of damage limitation

backed into being legal miner in usa (had to do so to clear bank error)

only sure thing is I can get 25% back towards taxes due as biz 5 years (20% a year off gross income)  so this 'brick' of a non-working (likely) Titan will put me in the hole $7598.85 vs $10,131.80 assuming I can string this along as a biz

otherwise I'd probably just let it sit in the box too....using scrypt calculator at 300mh (assuming it could do this) at 1400w (prob low) with 15c/kwh you'd
maybe barely get 2 btc (taking out elec costs you'd have to pay) the first month in conversion using a 'litecoin  pool' ....which if I am correct is about all you can use this 300mh Titan with at the
moment in some kinda stable manner..perhaps some multipools work but have not heard of any...

so if I was NOT in the above legal miner situation I likely would eat the eventual $1,500 usd by leaving it in the box for the next couple months and/or
pay the $1,500 for a lawyer to pursue this..right now taking the 25% above seems in my odd situation the most prudent....

likely the smart thing is to sell the Titan in hand 1st batch as 300mh on ebay...but I mean really ....4 out of 5 of these puppies have to going back as
charge back to their cc companies...I mean would you not use charge back on paypal if you had to try to get one of these beasts up ..even at a 4.2k price?
looks to me a lot of them sales will end in tears....with the simple fact of 2 month RMA from KNC timeline on a piece of equip that won't work? and they
say they have a die/chip issue they can't fix...hell I've gotten charge backs for less problems then that on paypal stuff

anyway I wish everyone luck refusing the package and or getting a lawyer etc I will jump thru what hoops I can after the fact also...legally approprate
....but KNC seems awful sure they can pull of this stunt...seems like their reputation does not matter

anybody know how many knc Titans were sold 1st batch? as a guess at 10k or each say 1250 miners that is 12.5 million (if my math is right)

so hell ......they prob are stuck all them $$$ already spent in data halls imho

whatever the NO REFUND NO ROI Titan arrives tomorrow eve 11/8/14.....like death and taxes...I guess I'll be the first to know

sheesh
 

[Cablez]

Great News Everyone! KNC is building a 2nd mining data center  20 MegaWatts!!!!!  Wowee!! Really glad to hear knc is doing well!!

                            

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/11/06/knc-miner-to-build-another-20mw-for-bitcoin-mining-in-sweden/

Really happy for them

This just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

...and to think they would have only been able to add an additional 10MW if they still had customers.  What a great idea to ditch them for more capacity.

[dadach]

the titan arrived, no cables of course...

imagine the uproar if you were to subscribe to sky television and they sent you a receiver box but refused to put up a satellite dish?

it's the same.

ok two boxes seem to be fully operational, while 3rd is only at 75% and the 4th is at 50%

what can i do? i am not hitting 300MH

[Cablez]

the titan arrived, no cables of course...

imagine the uproar if you were to subscribe to sky television and they sent you a receiver box but refused to put up a satellite dish?

it's the same.

ok two boxes seem to be fully operational, while 3rd is only at 75% and the 4th is at 50%

what can i do? i am not hitting 300MH

Aside from RMA it was suggested by KnC to turn off bad dies and clock the remaining working cores higher to regain some performance.  Not ideal but might work.  I just worry how much more power would be drawn through that single PCIe connector using this approach.  Anyone tried it yet?

[s1gs3gv]

I'll mention again I am not a lawyer and then say

It seems to me that the guidance to refuse the package or not open and use it if you have claimed a refund may depend on the grounds that you are claiming a refund. If you are doing it under one of the laws that allows you a cooling off period on internet sales, then perhaps it is good advice.

However, if you are doing it on the basis that the product doesn't meet advertised specifications than I'm not sure it matters.
I intend to test v1.06 when it comes out with p2pool, fast block time coins etc and if they haven't fixed these problems then they have shipped me a product which is not suitable for 'all scrypt  applications' @ 300MH/s as they advertised and then notify KNC that I intend to return it for a refund.

When I purchased my Titan I had no interest in mining LTC. I purchased it on the assurance that it could mine any script coin or coin switching pool at advertised speeds.

I'll publish my tests when available for everyone's amusement.

[cryptomole]

I'll mention again I am not a lawyer and then say

It seems to me that the guidance to refuse the package or not open and use it if you have claimed a refund may depend on the grounds that you are claiming a refund. If you are doing it under one of the laws that allows you a cooling off period on internet sales, then perhaps it is good advice.

However, if you are doing it on the basis that the product doesn't meet advertised specifications than I'm not sure it matters.
I intend to test v1.06 when it comes out with p2pool, fast block time coins etc and if they haven't fixed these problems then they have shipped me a product which is not suitable for 'all scrypt  applications' @ 300MH/s as they advertised and then notify KNC that I intend to return it for a refund.

When I purchased my Titan I had no interest in mining LTC. I purchased it on the assurance that it could mine any script coin or coin switching pool at advertised speeds.

I'll publish my tests when available for everyone's amusement.

I agree this is an interesting point. I also pointed it out to my solicitor when he first said I should return the unit. I told him the same point - how could we claim for failure to meet advertised spec if we dont have the unit.

What was the assurance that it could mine any scrypt coin - do you have a quote.
Would be very handy to pass on to solicitor.
Thanks
cm

[s1gs3gv]

Aside from RMA it was suggested by KnC to turn off bad dies and clock the remaining working cores higher to regain some performance.  Not ideal but might work.  I just worry how much more power would be drawn through that single PCIe connector using this approach.  Anyone tried it yet?

I have one with 1 non-working die. The rest are clocked at 325MHz, the fastest speed available in release 1.05 of the firmware. The advanced screen claims that this ASIC is using ~ 200 watts. The others use 265. I have no idea how accurate the reported numbers are. These are just ASIC numbers. They don't include the fan and peripheral component power losses etc.

I have seen some users report the KNCs power estimates are low. I have heard others state that 4 cubes @ 325MHz pull ~ 1550 watts at the wall using a PSU which is ~ 85% efficient.

KNC is likely to bump the clock rate at least one more time in order to get performance closer to 400 MHs to meet its commitment to batch 2 customers.

[s1gs3gv]

What was the assurance that it could mine any scrypt coin - do you have a quote.
Would be very handy to pass on to solicitor.
Thanks
cm

It was a claim made on their Titan product page on their website. archive.org probably has a copy, as do others. It may also appear in quotes published by zines at the time of launch.

It can be utilised for any Scrypt-based application, including mining for Litecoins, Dogecoins and others.

[s1gs3gv]

ok two boxes seem to be fully operational, while 3rd is only at 75% and the 4th is at 50%

what can i do? i am not hitting 300MH

email support and wait a day or two for them to tell you that you need to check your controller cables …

email them back and tell them you checked your controller cables and wait a day or two for them to tell you that you need to check the power cables

email them back and tell them you checked the power cables and wait a day or two for them to tell you that you should turn off the bad die on the advanced page and be glad they shipped you one that runs close to 300MH/s instead of ~100MH/s which is what it was when they opened pre-orders.

email them back and tell them that it isn't running at 300MH/s and wait a day or two for them to tell you that you need to play with voltages and clock rates on the advanced page

email them back and ask exactly how you should adjust the voltages and clock rates to make the damed thing work right

wait a long time while support ignores your email

open a new topic on their support forums, describe your problem and what KNC told you then wait for a KNC sockpuppet to ask you 'whats the problem, mine works ok … don't you know how to plug a cable into a socket ?'

then rage on bitcointalk or pre-order a Swedish lawyer to take your case to court in Stockholm ...

[mishax1]

got a shipping confirmation #2118X but I want a refund.. 

[s1gs3gv]

got a shipping confirmation #2118X but I want a refund.. 

the line starts over there ...

[s1gs3gv]

This is kinda fun googling around for KNC jokes

Here is a statement they made about the Titan https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-80

Our Scrypt miner will be able to run on an 800 - 1000 watt power supply.

and

Uses a Standard ATX power supply (customer supplied ATX)

~L)L~

[mishax1]

This is kinda fun googling around for KNC jokes

Here is a statement they made about the Titan https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-80

Our Scrypt miner will be able to run on an 800 - 1000 watt power supply.

yeah, stated 250mhs @1000W,  in reality 300mhs(if working) @ 1500W

[cryptodevil]

It can be utilised for any Scrypt-based application, including mining for Litecoins, Dogecoins and others.

This.

The fact that they even state on their own support forums that the unit can only function on certain pools is evidence enough that they are as aware of the fact the product does not meet the originally advertised specifications as their customers are.

Repeating their 'no refund' mantra and ignoring the fact that they are not even shipping a unit that conforms to the advertised specs, is just bully-boy tactics. They want us gone so they can dig in to that $14,000,000.00 payday from Creandum's recent investment.

Maybe it would be worth letting staffan.helgesson@creandum.com learn some home truths about KnC and what sort of company Creandum are showing the world they are prepared to go to bed with.

[s1gs3gv]

It can be utilised for any Scrypt-based application, including mining for Litecoins, Dogecoins and others.

This.

The fact that they even state on their own support forums that the unit can only function on certain pools is evidence enough that they are as aware of the fact the product does not meet the originally advertised specifications as their customers are.

Repeating their 'no refund' mantra and ignoring the fact that they are not even shipping a unit that conforms to the advertised specs, is just bully-boy tactics. They want us gone so they can dig in to that $14,000,000.00 payday from Creandum's recent investment.

Maybe it would be worth letting staffan.helgesson@creandum.com learn some home truths about KnC and what sort of company Creandum are showing the world they are prepared to go to bed with.

Right now p2pool, fast block time coins and some switching pools are not mineable at 300MH/s. KNC has acknowledged the problem and is trying to fix it. They don't have forever to make it right and deliver a fully functional product. When v1.06 comes out its either fixed or permanently broken AFAIAC.

… there is a rumor going around that the Creandum deal was a sweetheart deal contingent on KNC raising further funding and that it was a PR stunt to make KNC look 'investable' to other potential marks. I have no idea if this is true or not.

[dadach]

did anyone get the cores to wake up after raising the voltages?

[s1gs3gv]

did anyone get the cores to wake up after raising the voltages?

A few people have. Most haven't.