Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[philipma1957]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites" 

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

[Lambie Slayer]

... paypal is just a lot of hype, bitcoin was primed to go up anyway, the fact it didn't crash on the Bitmex fed-controlled demolition was the big clue that it is just time.

... let's run some real numbers for the mini-minds fogged with snake-bite poison ...

Paysmell usersbase 300 million? say 10-20% of those at best are grammas just itching in their panties to get hands on some paypal trading tokens, so at best maybe 60million dufus who will get sucked into this scam ... on average they'll maybe throw $1-200 at it, best case 60mill sheeple get $200 (totally hopium numbers) ... that's about $12 billion coming into bitcoin ... meh, w/e

Federal Reserve printing ~$10-15 trillion to stop rich folks feeling poorer from the plague

 ... poor sheeple got no money, that's why they call them poor.

... bitcoin adoption is about MONEY adopting bitcoin, not poor people ... sorry if that upsets your socialistic sensibilities but that's the reality on the ground, I wish poor people would wise up and buy bitcoins for real, they always choose the corporate-guvvy shackles though

Paypal CEO was talking about luvving bitcoin in 2013 ffs!, 7 years later they come up with this shit sandwich e-tokens card-collecting game (how is it not a fraud anyway?), I mean it's a total joke and you're fucked in the head from huffing hopium if you think this means anything in the big scheme of things.

Looks like somebody got caught short once again.   Hard for some people to think clearly after hiding under a bed for 7 months scared of and preaching doom and gloom that never came.

I could go on and on, but I'd just be kicking someone while they are down and beaten. So cheer up buddy, life's not that bad, you never died from the sniffles, and Paypal is part of the path to Global Reserve status.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Belgium

[marcus_of_augustus]

... paypal is just a lot of hype, bitcoin was primed to go up anyway, the fact it didn't crash on the Bitmex fed-controlled demolition was the big clue that it is just time.

... let's run some real numbers for the mini-minds fogged with snake-bite poison ...

Paysmell usersbase 300 million? say 10-20% of those at best are grammas just itching in their panties to get hands on some paypal trading tokens, so at best maybe 60million dufus who will get sucked into this scam ... on average they'll maybe throw $1-200 at it, best case 60mill sheeple get $200 (totally hopium numbers) ... that's about $12 billion coming into bitcoin ... meh, w/e

Federal Reserve printing ~$10-15 trillion to stop rich folks feeling poorer from the plague

 ... poor sheeple got no money, that's why they call them poor.

... bitcoin adoption is about MONEY adopting bitcoin, not poor people ... sorry if that upsets your socialistic sensibilities but that's the reality on the ground, I wish poor people would wise up and buy bitcoins for real, they always choose the corporate-guvvy shackles though

Paypal CEO was talking about luvving bitcoin in 2013 ffs!, 7 years later they come up with this shit sandwich e-tokens card-collecting game (how is it not a fraud anyway?), I mean it's a total joke and you're fucked in the head from huffing hopium if you think this means anything in the big scheme of things.

Looks like somebody got caught short once again.   Hard for some people to think clearly after hiding under a bed for 7 months scared of and preaching doom and gloom that never came.

I could go on and on, but I'd just be kicking someone while they are down and beaten. So cheer up buddy, life's not that bad, you never died from the sniffles, and Paypal is part of the path to Global Reserve status.

.. it's always fun watching the muppets like you dance around on corpro-guvvy strings ... you make it too easy 

[Lambie Slayer]

... paypal is just a lot of hype, bitcoin was primed to go up anyway, the fact it didn't crash on the Bitmex fed-controlled demolition was the big clue that it is just time.

... let's run some real numbers for the mini-minds fogged with snake-bite poison ...

Paysmell usersbase 300 million? say 10-20% of those at best are grammas just itching in their panties to get hands on some paypal trading tokens, so at best maybe 60million dufus who will get sucked into this scam ... on average they'll maybe throw $1-200 at it, best case 60mill sheeple get $200 (totally hopium numbers) ... that's about $12 billion coming into bitcoin ... meh, w/e

Federal Reserve printing ~$10-15 trillion to stop rich folks feeling poorer from the plague

 ... poor sheeple got no money, that's why they call them poor.

... bitcoin adoption is about MONEY adopting bitcoin, not poor people ... sorry if that upsets your socialistic sensibilities but that's the reality on the ground, I wish poor people would wise up and buy bitcoins for real, they always choose the corporate-guvvy shackles though

Paypal CEO was talking about luvving bitcoin in 2013 ffs!, 7 years later they come up with this shit sandwich e-tokens card-collecting game (how is it not a fraud anyway?), I mean it's a total joke and you're fucked in the head from huffing hopium if you think this means anything in the big scheme of things.

Looks like somebody got caught short once again.   Hard for some people to think clearly after hiding under a bed for 7 months scared of and preaching doom and gloom that never came.

I could go on and on, but I'd just be kicking someone while they are down and beaten. So cheer up buddy, life's not that bad, you never died from the sniffles, and Paypal is part of the path to Global Reserve status.

.. it's always fun watching the muppets like you dance around on corpro-guvvy strings ... you make it too easy   Im a paranoid schizo like Roach and everyone is a secret govy agent. Derp Derp...

You haven't had any fun in seven months and you know it.

You have been living in perpetual terror of a death by sniffles that never came.

 Come out from under the bed and life wont seem so gloomy. Only a shorter cries and whines after King Bitcoin makes a big move up.  

[cAPSLOCK]

Yeah but....it's bitcoin and also 3 other shitcoins that we all know are completely worthless.

Not quite what I meant: They could have sold paypalcoin or some BS like that which isn't backed by anything. LTC is a little coin but at least it has a public mining community. Huffing ether... is, and I didn't see what the last one was.

I believe it's BCash, the biggest and most worthless scam coin of them all. The *king* of shitcoins (well, next to BSV of course).

Yes.  This is by far the most disappointing part of the thing to me.  Overall I see this as mega bullish... but fucking BCash

[Biodom]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites"  

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

measured in in which units?
I don't want to accumulate btc to have more $$ in a few mo.
By the same token, you could buy in the cashapp, then move it to blockfi...you would have gotten more btc and more $$ (if $$ is the point) in a few month.
I see a benefit for those who have a large volume on paypal, maybe.

BTW, planB is also sharply negative:
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1318908402064625664

[cAPSLOCK]

   There's your pullback, cAPSLOCK.  Or did you want MOAR?

If my MOAR you mean UP.  Thass not a sell on the news pullback. If we don't see that?  Heh.

[Lambie Slayer]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites"  

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

measured in in which units?
I don't want to accumulate btc to have more $$ in a few mo.
By the same token, you could buy in the cashapp, then move it to blockfi...you would have gotten more btc and more $$ (if $$ is the point) in a few month.
I see a benefit for those who have a large volume on paypal, maybe.

BTW, planB is also sharply negative:
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1318908402064625664

You said Paypal would be able to make a large profit off the Bitcoin granny stores and not the fiat.

"You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$."

I demonstrated that granny would reap any capital gains profits from Bitcoin, not paypal, unless paypal commits outright fraud and theft.

What is to stop granny from hodling for years on Paypal.

By then she can likely directly withdraw it directly in BTC, or if not, she can convert her Bitcoins to a million each in fiat, then transfer the fiat to an exchange and buy Bitcoin that she can control the keys of.

[JimboToronto]

... paypal is just a lot of hype, bitcoin was primed to go up anyway, the fact it didn't crash on the Bitmex fed-controlled demolition was the big clue that it is just time.

Reminds me of the Silk Road bust. Any excuse for a spark.

[Biodom]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites"  

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

measured in in which units?
I don't want to accumulate btc to have more $$ in a few mo.
By the same token, you could buy in the cashapp, then move it to blockfi...you would have gotten more btc and more $$ (if $$ is the point) in a few month.
I see a benefit for those who have a large volume on paypal, maybe.

BTW, planB is also sharply negative:
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1318908402064625664

You said Paypal would be able to make a large profit off the Bitcoin granny stores and not the fiat.

"You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$."

I demonstrated that granny would reap any capital gains profits from Bitcoin, not paypal, unless paypal commits outright fraud and theft.

What is to stop granny from hodling for years on Paypal.

By then she can likely directly withdraw it directly in BTC, or if not, she can convert her Bitcoins to a million each in fiat, then transfer the fiat to an exchange and buy Bitcoin that she can control the keys of.

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

[cAPSLOCK]

It's gonna be tough for a lot of idealistic Bitcoiners to accept the fact that some of bitcoin's "layer 2" is gonna be built by people who do not share the cypherpunk ethos.

There is actually more complaining about today's news than I expected.  Lot of the purists are reacting with "Not your keys not your coins" type sloganisms.  An Ethos I believed in from the beginning.  I had a Mt. Gox account... How many Bitcoin do they owe me?  ZERO.

But they are expecting a standard that is impossible for people with IQs south of 115 probably.  In other words the MAJORITY.  Steve Jobs changed the world because he knew his customers would never know how to use technical devices.  He made the Mac mouse have ONE button.  People scoffed.

Average folks (and even quite smart folks) need help with things.  With money, accounts, planning.  I mean most people don't buy a cruise ship to create their own floating self sovereign set of condos (Today I realized Elwar is probably going to buy so many ships... lol).

Anyway.  Terrible things will probably happen because of Paypal spoon feeding corn to the masses... Just like the Nigerian Price scams probably got sent to more email addresses that look like silvergranny@aol.com.  And PayPal themselves may screw over their customers.

Anyway... Little by little the world is coming to our little party.

It's gonna get messy.

Damnit we are going to go through yet another "The next Bitcoin" wave because of it!  *sigh*

It's so damn exciting!  How did we deserve to be HERE for this?

[Syke]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

[DaRude]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites"  

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

measured in in which units?
I don't want to accumulate btc to have more $$ in a few mo.
By the same token, you could buy in the cashapp, then move it to blockfi...you would have gotten more btc and more $$ (if $$ is the point) in a few month.
I see a benefit for those who have a large volume on paypal, maybe.

BTW, planB is also sharply negative:
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1318908402064625664

You said Paypal would be able to make a large profit off the Bitcoin granny stores and not the fiat.

"You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$."

I demonstrated that granny would reap any capital gains profits from Bitcoin, not paypal, unless paypal commits outright fraud and theft.

What is to stop granny from hodling for years on Paypal.

By then she can likely directly withdraw it directly in BTC, or if not, she can convert her Bitcoins to a million each in fiat, then transfer the fiat to an exchange and buy Bitcoin that she can control the keys of.

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

They have that NY bitlicense i'm not even sure if that'd allow them to run a fractional reserve, regardless, any investment carries a risk so if they do lent anything out they have to insure it with their own $250 billion market cap. Any publicity is a good publicity, and i believe over all this is a net positive for BTC not sure why everyone got their panties in a bunch

[explorer]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

1) take investors'  money

2) invest in (shitcoin of choice)

3) proffit!

They invented a new game 

[philipma1957]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

1) take investors'  money

2) invest in (shitcoin of choice)

3) proffit!

They invented a new game  

They created more demand for btc. no more complex then that.

which is why i went and purchased $20 worth of btc on paypal

vs 20 worth on coinbase or bittrex.

Any place making new btc demand works for me.

[marcus_of_augustus]

which is why i went and purchased $20 worth of btc on paypal

vs 20 worth on coinbase or bittrex.

Any place making new btc demand works for me.

... you didn't buy bitcoin from Paypal, you bought and entry in their SQL db.

... or prove to me you own any bitcoin with paypal. it's like Mt. Gox ... after they closed the withdraw window.

[Biodom]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

When was it written?
In April 2019 T-bill was 2.25-2.5%, but right now T-bill is at 0.08-0.09%, which is almost exactly zero comparing with 3%.
Don't take me wrong...I appreciate another thou/btc, but this does nothing for btc long term.
cashapp, on the other hand and everything Jack does has been genuine ...so far.

[Searing]

Yeah but....it's bitcoin and also 3 other shitcoins that we all know are completely worthless.

Not quite what I meant: They could have sold paypalcoin or some BS like that which isn't backed by anything. LTC is a little coin but at least it has a public mining community. Huffing ether... is, and I didn't see what the last one was.

I believe it's BCash, the biggest and most worthless scam coin of them all. The *king* of shitcoins (well, next to BSV of course).

Oh Bitcoin Trash! I remember that fondly, when it came out I swept a bunch of wallets, then converted it all to bitcoin. I think I even have a separate wallet for that one since I can't figure out how to tax the base value. It did.... well.

(You could say the base value was zero since it was "created" however it did ding the value of bitcoin so I think that should be taken into account. Since I converted it back to bitcoin one might also consider it a wash and I should continue to base value on the original acquisition price. Dunno, will figure out someday)

hhu
I think? If you move BTC Cash and BTC SV and other 'forks' off your main chain...it then is ALL profit...in other words it fell out of the sky at that price you moved

it at. Does not apply to cap gains...if it fell out of the sky say BTC cash at whatever it was at $214 usd or some such, in that it was ALL profit (like a gift) ..thus

if you had say 100 BTC and sold 100 BCH at say $400 at 15% cap gains and in my case (MN) 10% approx state tax that is 25% of $40,000.00 owed ($10k)

no matter how you cut it...mine is still riding on the original blockchains on all the forks...one time I was bored and used www.cointracker.io a free tracker

of BTC and Altcoins and put in like I think ALL the supposed BTC and some other Altcoin forks. Most of such is junk like 100 BTC is worth $1.98 on such forks. It

was boring and must be more than a couple dozen forks on the site...but since 2017 not any new real forks of any note....add altcoin wallets and setting up

manual wallets for not the public addresses on such altcoins...and it shows my total BTC/Crypto worth from day to day. It is a FREE service...so kinda slick.

anyway...my CPA says if MONEY falls out of the SKY you pay the full cap gains on whatever you sell it for in USD once you pull it off the blockchain...so the

day you pull your forked coin is the day it $$$ wise is you use for cap gains. Again, the cointracker site above..i keep track of my forked coins..but have not

pulled any....just a way to keep score.

brad

[Biodom]

Yeah but....it's bitcoin and also 3 other shitcoins that we all know are completely worthless.

Not quite what I meant: They could have sold paypalcoin or some BS like that which isn't backed by anything. LTC is a little coin but at least it has a public mining community. Huffing ether... is, and I didn't see what the last one was.

I believe it's BCash, the biggest and most worthless scam coin of them all. The *king* of shitcoins (well, next to BSV of course).

Oh Bitcoin Trash! I remember that fondly, when it came out I swept a bunch of wallets, then converted it all to bitcoin. I think I even have a separate wallet for that one since I can't figure out how to tax the base value. It did.... well.

(You could say the base value was zero since it was "created" however it did ding the value of bitcoin so I think that should be taken into account. Since I converted it back to bitcoin one might also consider it a wash and I should continue to base value on the original acquisition price. Dunno, will figure out someday)

hhu
I think? If you move BTC Cash and BTC SV and other 'forks' off your main chain...it then is ALL profit...in other words it fell out of the sky at that price you moved

it at. Does not apply to cap gains...if it fell out of the sky say BTC cash at whatever it was at $214 usd or some such, in that it was ALL profit (like a gift) ..thus

if you had say 100 BTC and sold 100 BCH at say $400 at 15% cap gains and in my case (MN) 10% approx state tax that is 25% of $40,000.00 owed ($10k)

no matter how you cut it...mine is still riding on the original blockchains on all the forks...one time I was bored and used www.cointracker.io a free tracker

of BTC and Altcoins and put in like I think ALL the supposed BTC and some other Altcoin forks. Most of such is junk like 100 BTC is worth $1.98 on such forks. It

was boring and must be more than a couple dozen forks on the site...but since 2017 not any new real forks of any note....add altcoin wallets and setting up

manual wallets for not the public addresses on such altcoins...and it shows my total BTC/Crypto worth from day to day. It is a FREE service...so kinda slick.

anyway...my CPA says if MONEY falls out of the SKY you pay the full cap gains on whatever you sell it for in USD once you pull it off the blockchain...so the

day you pull your forked coin is the day it $$$ wise is you use for cap gains. Again, the cointracker site above..i keep track of my forked coins..but have not

pulled any....just a way to keep score.

brad

this does appear to be correct, but who knows, they keep providing more and more "clarifications" that actually muddy the water.