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Question: When ATH?
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 24723088 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (153 posts by 40 users deleted.)
Peanutswar
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Let the war of the peanuts begin!


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September 11, 2020, 03:52:49 PM

Eyy Congrats @Cryptotourist!!

Lets market check for a while

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September 11, 2020, 03:57:02 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

@Travis_Kling
If you ever worry about who would pay $50k for one #Bitcoin ...

Just remember Warren Buffett bought $APPL after it did a 7x in 7 years, right before it did a 3.5x in 4 years.

Many will be late and still buy anyway.



Gaah! I still cringe every time someone says crap like this.

1. No one in the know cares about "a whole bitcoin". The unit of measure is completely irrelevant,

because...

2. A "bitcoin" is divisible to 8 decimal places. And can be modded to 16 decimal places with a single line constant change. A near infinite "stock split".

It just perpetuates a myth that people won't be able to afford to buy bitcoin in the future. These aren't BRK/A shares, people!  Angry
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September 11, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
Merited by fillippone (2)

[important message embedded in an image]

need to decentralise mining pools. right fucking now

[important links]

Damn, V8s, important message posted while I was writing long thing.

The deeper problem is ASICs.  Special-purpose hardware can be controlled on the supply side.  What happens if mining hardware requires a licence to purchase?  What, you think they won’t go that far to prevent terrorist laundering and money financing?



I am in Bitcoin because it is more or less our last hope.

I intended to write of this recently...  I actually don’t believe in much of the maximalist economic stuff.  Yes, Bitcoin has long-term fundamentals and will increase in value.  No, I don’t buy that it will become a “world reserve currency”; that’s a terribly naïve proposition, whereas it will never be allowed by bankers who can’t control it—bankers who control tens of trillions of dollars in assets, own governments and thus militaries, tanks, ICBMs, and nuclear weapons, start wars at the drop of a hat, topple governments like toys and kill millions of people...  Do you really suppose that their lunch can be eaten by some software on the Internet, which, by the way, they also own and could shut down at any time?

If Bitcoin fails, there is really nothing else to shield us from being crushed into total, inescapable enslavement through the lethal combination of scam fractional-reserve “money”, total financial surveillance, and KYC-everything permission systems.

Bitcoin gives us some freedom of action to strive to obtain more freedom—if we choose to do so.

All other freedoms depend on financial freedom.  For only one example, just try to exercise the freedom of speech if financial censorship and financial surveillance can be used to ensure that you cannot buy even a crust of bread without permission, and you can be physically located at any time.  For only one example.

+1 WOsMerit



---------

There is a reason if Stamp is the WO reference exchange: they are leading the pack:

Bitstamp Integrates Nasdaq’s Matching Engine for Faster Order Executions


Quote
Cryptocurrency exchange Bitstamp has implemented a new matching engine from Nasdaq’s technology vendor that it says greatly speeds up trading.


On a casual Virtual meetup with Paolo Ardoino, your fellow Fillippone asked the Bitfinex CTO how the "traditional exchanges" could help heat-up  the crypto exchange competition. Ardoino mentioned their expertise on matching engine expertise citing the NASDAQ engine being one order of magnitude faster than their current one (yes, 10x faster is no joke).


EDIT: link https://youtu.be/VxSKy7x7Wiw?t=5190




+1 WOsMerit



--------

Anybody got the feeling we’re coiling, ready to explode upwards in the short to medium term future?
Bears tried to take us (and keep us) below $10,000 numerous times now & they’ve failed every time. The halving SHOULD start to show in the price soon. Think about it, miners now only have half the amount of coins to dump on the market. They should be out of the coins they had previously now so the reduced supply SHOULD show in the price soon.

The US election is imminent, it seemed to be a catalyst for bullish movement last time. What do you think guys?
It feels like the calm before a storm, I think we’re going to get a Q4 bullish rally.


+1 WOsMerit

bears are being surrounded and will be overwhelmed soon...that is all



--------

It feels like the calm before a storm, I think we’re going to get a Q4 bullish rally.
It's trying hard to cross $10,500. Good thing is that we are not going under $10k. Even if we go we are bouncing back almost immediately.

We are going to brush past  14000 in under a month.

Quote
https://www.nicehash.com/my/miner/....6oHLGnnrVAf1hC3WV2RBXZ2HNs....
CURRENT PROFITABILITY / 24H
0.00457303 BTC
≈ $47.03

This is my gpu daily earning rate. As long as it is over 40 it means btc is underpriced compared to eth.

Every time I post here for the next 30 days I will drag that info from my nicehash account to this thread.

As long as it is higher then 40 (more complex then that but good enough for now)  it means there is extra demand for BTC from nicehash mining.


+1 WOsMerit


-------

Good morning all


some charts

puuurrrrrrr
4h


H&S? rogue wave? all I know is a bart for sure...some serious coiling seems to be taken place now as well  #dyor
D

#stronghands
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September 11, 2020, 05:09:48 PM
Merited by Phil_S (2)

https://zoom.earth/#view=43.6352,-122.9216,8z/date=2020-09-11,09:40,-7/layers=fires
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THE NEXT 24 YEARS ARE CRITICAL🍄💊


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September 11, 2020, 05:53:53 PM

Looks like half the planet is burning
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September 11, 2020, 06:02:03 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2020, 07:15:05 PM by AlcoHoDL
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), d_eddie (1)


[ long post advising against using a seed+passphrase, and against using plausible deniability ]


I disagree with many of your points in the above post, the body of which I had to remove in the interest of readability. Readers can click the link above to read your original post, to which I'm replying below.

Adding a passphrase to your seed protects your coins in cases where your plain seed or h/w wallet, such as a Trezor or Ledger, may have been compromised, like in the cases where you can't find your seed backup in the place you expected it to be, or when you lose your Trezor/Ledger. If they were simply lost or thrown away, that's OK, there is no foul play involved, you can simply transfer your coins to a different wallet, even if you're not using an additional passphrase. But, what if they are now in the hands of a thief? In such cases, the passphrase could buy you a significant amount of time (depending on its strength), during which you can transfer your coins to a different wallet. Couple this with plausible deniability, e.g., out of your 100 hypothetical BTC, put only 10 BTC in the plain seed, and the remaining 90 BTC in the seed+passphrase, and the thief will very likely be satisfied and happy to have stolen 10 BTC from you. I wouldn't expect him to attempt to brute force the—now empty—plain seed for an additional passphrase after he has taken your 10 BTC (currently worth more than $100k).

Plain seed result: You had 100 BTC, you lost 100 BTC, you are left with 0 BTC.
Seed+passphrase result: You had 100 BTC, you lost 10 BTC, you are left with 90 BTC.

Note that, in the above scenario, you did not have to lie to any authority. Plausible deniability in this case did not involve you having to deny ownership of any coins and subsequently being accused of lying. In any case, it's up to you to decide if and when to lie (and to whom), depending of the specific circumstances. You have a choice. With the plain seed, you don't have that choice. The moment that piece of paper gets into the wrong hands, your imaginary safe is wide open for the paper holder to get in and take your coins—no cracking necessary. That piece of paper is a necessary and sufficient condition for accessing your coins. Adding a passphrase to the mix (not written on that piece of paper), makes that piece of paper a necessary, but not sufficient condition for accessing your coins. I prefer the latter option!

About the passphrase's cryptographic strength, you can have a strong passphrase that you (and only you) can remember, which is still much easier to remember than the actual seed. I have anonymously tested passphrases with a symbol length and structure similar to the one I'm using to protect my seed, and all test engines have resulted in cracking time estimates of centuries*. Furthermore, even if the passphrase is relatively weak, it may still be able to buy you the time you need to transfer your coins to a different wallet, should you discover that the seed has been compromised. Any passphrase (regardless of its strength) is an additional layer of security. It won't make your coins any less secure, and could buy you time to take action in cases where your seed is compromised.

As for your comment on "above suspicion", I would also like to reach that state IRL (and I believe I have, to a certain extent), but it's not so easy to attain (and maintain). Most of us are social beings interacting with each other, and sooner or later (especially in the coming years, when Bitcoin is expected to sky-rocket) we may become more exposed than we'd like. So, I would be very careful with the statements in the last paragraph of your post. One small leak in your OPSEC could be enough to weaken those statements, in which case you may end up wishing you had that extra layer of security.

---

(*) I'm assuming that the additional passphrase corresponds to the full search space that results from its length and the set of symbols used. If the additional passphrase, as applied to our discussion (i.e., in BIP39), has constraints on length or other parameters, and thus results in a limited search space, I would very much like to know about it, please enlighten me if you can.

---

Edit: Improved syntax.
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September 11, 2020, 06:15:20 PM

BobLawblaw
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September 11, 2020, 06:16:13 PM

https://twitter.com/yegorpetr0v/status/1304467299139817472
"#hodl strong"

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IIRC


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September 11, 2020, 06:42:26 PM


Looks like the devil's home is brazil  Shocked
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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September 11, 2020, 06:55:04 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2020, 07:23:48 PM by JayJuanGee

So, for example, if the payoff for betting correctly is 5%, but the loss of betting incorrectly is 1%, but the odds of getting the 5% is 2/5 because the trader has good predictive skills and is able to hit with that level of precision, then surely if the trader has assessed the odds correctly, then largely in the long term for every 5 times that the trader plays those odds, s/he will get 5% twice, and s/he will lose 1% three times, which seems to be decent profits of somewhere in the ballpark of 7% from those 5 trades.

Jay, let’s take this as scientific gambling:  Pop those numbers into the Kelly criterion!

If I believed that SwayStar could reliably gain 5% on even close to 40/60 odds (acknowledging that that’s just your off-the-cuff example probability, not what she claimed) versus 1% losses, then I would practically beg her to let me send her all of my money right now, on agreement to let her keep half the profit (or hell, even most of it) as a management fee—just keep hitting those trades!  Because I would get rich quick that way.

Really, do a little back-of-the-envelope calculation.  Geometric growth (what Kelly addresses) is funny.  “Turn 0.005 BTC into 1 BTC” kind of funny, and more.

Of course, I’m not exactly doing that.  Just call me a skeptic.

If the trader realistically assess the odds of a price move - yeah, sure a BIG "if" because frequently the assignment of odds is not very accurate, [...]

Yeah, I understand that the odds are never going to be that clear to assess, so in that regard, the devil is in the details, because usually the odds are not going to be so easy to figure out.

Yeah... about that...

Also, some traders roll their profits into their trading stash, and other traders will take some profits off the table on a regular basis in order to use for living expenses or just to stack away some of their profits.

If you could be certain of the odds, and if the odds are EV+, Kelly bets that roll profits back into the pot are, of course, mathematically optimal for growth in the sense of “I no longer care what the market does, because my portfolio already went to the moon”.  Confirmed science, lulz.  (Hey, there’s that “IF” again.)

We likely realize that normies will do the wrong thing, even if they can accurately assess the odds, so in one sense, if we take out one of the variables (regarding assessing the odds), then the only step would thereafter to be to set up a system that takes advantage of those odds in order that you are always winning when you let the system play out (because you know the odds).

Sure, in bitcoin we might not exactly know the odds, but many of us who have gotten into bitcoin did so because we had concluded that the odds of it going UP in the long run were greater than the odds of it going DOWN, even though in the short run we might end up witnessing a lot of DOWN and a lot of SIDEWAYS that was NOT our preference, but if we ended up being correct that in the long run BTC would end up going UP, then so long as we were somewhat weighted towards UP, then the whole bet ends up being a patience game to wait out the term.

There are additional strategies that can be employed also, if you add an additional variable regarding taking advantage of volatility.  No asset that is somewhat tied to free market forces is going to go up in a straight line, so in that process we can anticipate that volatility is almost inevitable in BTC, so there are ways to structure your BTC strategy and approach to take advantage of near inevitable volatility.  Again, you are not changing your overall presumption that the asset is going up in price, so in that regard, your whole position is always biased in favor of UPward movement at all times, even if you fairly strongly convicted that the price is going down in the short term, you continue to bias your portfolio towards up, in order that you never lose in the long run, even if in the short term you will likely lose some value if the shorter term down ends up playing out as you anticipated.

So, ultimately, even if you play around with volatility and downward bets along the way, so long as you are continuously structurally biased towards upward BTC price movements, then the only thing that you ultimately need to be correct about is that the BTC price is going up in the long run... and so far in BTC's history, we have witnessed that it has ultimately gone up, even if while there has been some periods of more than 3 years of down, flat and failure to get back to certain previous high price points.. but if you are holding 4 years or longer, so far in BTC's history any single satoshi that you would have bought would have been profitable on that time frame.  

Of course, past performance is not a guarantee of future performance, but many of us still recognize that there remain decent prospects for anyone investing four years or longer in terms of at least having some level of preservation of value and even profits so long as they are mostly betting on up, which largely means accumulating BTC and regular DCA, buying on dips and HODL have been amongst the best of the core strategies (which also means strive to engage in strategies that do not put yourself in a position, at any point, in which you have to sell any of your BTC, except at a point that is completely of your own choosing)..
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September 11, 2020, 07:14:33 PM

A spanking new banking paradigm has been unveiled



Money needs no longer to keep people in chains.
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September 11, 2020, 07:21:52 PM

It feels like the calm before a storm, I think we’re going to get a Q4 bullish rally.
It's trying hard to cross $10,500. Good thing is that we are not going under $10k. Even if we go we are bouncing back almost immediately.

We are going to brush past  14000 in under a month.

Quote
https://www.nicehash.com/my/miner/....6oHLGnnrVAf1hC3WV2RBXZ2HNs....
CURRENT PROFITABILITY / 24H
0.00457303 BTC
≈ $47.03

This is my gpu daily earning rate. As long as it is over 40 it means btc is underpriced compared to eth.

Every time I post here for the next 30 days I will drag that info from my nicehash account to this thread.

As long as it is higher then 40 (more complex then that but good enough for now)  it means there is extra demand for BTC from nicehash mining.

six hours later:

CURRENT PROFITABILITY / 24H
0.00516597 BTC
≈ $53.31



so demand is still happening for btc  via eth to btc auto vert
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September 11, 2020, 07:22:35 PM


Just seeing this for the first time.  Damn, I like it.  Though you probably want to research the properties of your washer material carefully, if you want for it to be fire-resistant, etc.  Compare Jameson Lopp’s trials of various seed-storage products.

Most importantly, this requires no Bitcoin-specific hardware purchases that are usually infeasible to make anonymously.  Inexpensive materials available at any hardware store, and maybe even already on-hand in your garage—excellent!



Final edit:  Thinking over those numbers, and the BIP 39 use of a bit of PBKDF2, I am slightly revising down my estimates of how many lost washers you can recover.  I am accustomed to thinking pessimistically from a defender’s perspective, and thus making somewhat liberal assumptions about what a cracker can do.  Whereas I don’t want to dose people with hopium about how many lost seed words they can get back, realistically.  Let’s put it this way:  I would not be surprised if somebody can crack 4 words on high-end home PC hardware in a semi-reasonable time; but if you rely on doing that, you may be in for a lot of pain!

Yeah.  I liked it too and did it.



Using those stamps is pretty hard work on little washers.  I also bought cheap ($10) engraver off ebay that is much easier to use, though not quite as "official" looking.
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September 11, 2020, 07:22:55 PM

A spanking new banking paradigm has been unveiled



Money needs no longer to keep people in chains.

J'accuse!

Them's not Bankers! (or I need to bank somewhere else!)

So sad. Sad My view of Bankers would 'brighten' considerably.....indeed!

brad

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September 11, 2020, 07:23:32 PM


That's just his summer home. His main residence appears to be Angola/Zambia/Mozambique.
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September 11, 2020, 07:24:14 PM

@nullius you can indeed become rich but after around 200k contracts slippage and stophunting absolutely wreck my strategy so its gonna slow down from there, so i would be in no place to accept anyones money either way lmao.

Here is a case-in-point in which a trader might over play the odds from time to time, or miscalculate the odds, and then instead of being a sure deal, it only takes one out of 100 bets, then all of a sudden all of the profits have been lost, or some variation of that scenario, which ends up being a kind of martingale betting rather than strategic plays that are structured in such a way to always be profitable.  The trader ends up getting greedy.

A more reasonable way to lose all the value would be that each bet is prudent, and the odds are supposed to be something like 7/10 wins and for some reason, the streak will keep hitting on the 3/10 outcome, until the total profits (and maybe even principle) is lost - even if the trader might only be playing 1% each time, after 100 losing bets in a row, the profits have long been removed, and there is only so much principle that is left (bet size keeps getting smaller, smaller and smaller), but if a trader is only betting 1% each time, it will take a whole hell of a long time to completely deplete the trading stash, merely that the trading stash shrinks.

Many traders cannot stick to such a system of betting only 1% per trade when the actual amount keeps shrinking, so they frequently will start to bet larger amounts that does not end up being sustainable... especially on a long losing streak... gravitating into a kind of martingale betting approach, which is NOT sustainable.

Of course, there are some traders who stick to a more sustainable system, and they stack away their profits while keeping their trading stash reasonable, and even they might suffer through vary long losing streaks that cause the size of their bets to keep shrinking and perhaps causing them to question themselves in terms of the amount of profit that is even possible upon a win (because the trading stash had continued to shrink by so much on the long losing streak).

and its not usually actually 5:1 odds, i just gave that as example, in real life itd be much more slower and safer if i was trading with a significant amount of money than what i showed in that challenge thread

You did not show slower and safer in that thread, anyhow, as far as I can remember.  

On several occasions, you did not show your work, either... which surely is problematic if you are trying to get people to become confidence in your abilities to employ a sustainable and profitable approach to BTC trading.


 No, I don’t buy that it will become a “world reserve currency”;

It does not need to be a world reserve currency to be a good investment.

that’s a terribly naïve proposition, whereas it will never be allowed by bankers who can’t control it—bankers who control tens of trillions of dollars in assets, own governments and thus militaries, tanks, ICBMs, and nuclear weapons, start wars at the drop of a hat, topple governments like toys and kill millions of people...

Sure there might be some battles along the way.  They do not control everything now, even though they strive to.  They are never going to control anything, and bitcoin provides an additional tool that removes some of that control (not all of it, but some of it).

 Do you really suppose that their lunch can be eaten by some software on the Internet, which, by the way, they also own and could shut down at any time?

Their lunch does not have to be eaten.

Bitcoin is already successful in providing an additional tool, and it will likely continue to provide additional tools in the future.   It could take 50 or 100 years to pass before we might see real large and meaningful changes (and the vast majority of is will be dead), but we do not need to see all of those changes, because we already have more options because of bitcoin... Thank you, king daddy.

If Bitcoin fails, there is really nothing else to shield us from being crushed into total, inescapable enslavement through the lethal combination of scam fractional-reserve “money”, total financial surveillance, and KYC-everything permission systems.

There's barter.

Bitcoin gives us some freedom of action to strive to obtain more freedom—if we choose to do so.

All other freedoms depend on financial freedom.  For only one example, just try to exercise the freedom of speech if financial censorship and financial surveillance can be used to ensure that you cannot buy even a crust of bread without permission, and you can be physically located at any time.  For only one example.

I mostly agree about these points.
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September 11, 2020, 07:31:52 PM

A spanking new banking paradigm has been unveiled

Money needs no longer to keep people in chains.

My Russian is barely there, but doesn't that verbiage in the back roughly translate to "A bank you can be tied to" ?
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September 11, 2020, 07:34:18 PM

yerp.

all the joeks in replies https://imgur.com/gallery/tXFhL9t
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September 11, 2020, 07:50:12 PM
Merited by BitcoinGirl.Club (1)

A spanking new banking paradigm has been unveiled



Money needs no longer to keep people in chains.

J'accuse!

Them's not Bankers! (or I need to bank somewhere else!)

So sad. Sad My view of Bankers would 'brighten' considerably.....indeed!

brad

Surely, those chiquitas seem to fit the definition of booth babes.


JJG finally found someone to have a race with 😝
Good luck brother!

I feel a wee bit outgunned.



Like I am out of my league.

 Cry Cry Cry
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September 11, 2020, 07:52:45 PM

I don’t think that obfuscation is in any way useful to protect you there.  Indeed, it is more likely to frustrate you—after you forget how you obfuscated.  Just rely on keeping the whole thing secret, which it needs to be anyway.

The whole thing should be a secret and stored safely. Buried in your backyard, a fake drain pipe, or even in your usual safe (behind a fake wall, or behind a painting). You should also have multiple backups in different locations, and possibly another one in a location different than where you live or work.

Using steel makes it fireproof (or rather fire resistant), but not rust proof. You'd need stainless or other metals or alloys for that.

People regularly keep books and other important documents very safe, so doing steel washers and nuts and bolts are just fun things. Paper wallet in an envelope or folder, plastic or even something stamped metal would all be fine if stored together where you store other valuables. Some of you guys have gun safes, or just normal "Sentry" branded safes, those are fire resistant and relatively water protected already.

I once used "plausible deniability" in the form of my laptop dual booting. The default boot mode required no password and boots to either freshly installed Linux Mint or some Windows 98 crap (which I'll probably upgrade to Windows 10) and some downloaded free videos, my resume, and assorted bank files and bills. In order to boot to the second partition I needed to enter a password within 30 seconds, otherwise it would boot the first partition.

These days, I just get lazy and don't bother. Anything I need to keep secret I simply do not bring with me on my laptop and access it remotely, securely, from my home server.

I travel with kids, we always skip the lines, even during this pandemic.


To note, I have been intending to buy a hardware wallet, either a trezor or a ledger, yet feel hesistant, after all these years. And one could say I know enough about bitcoin and the possibility of being hacked or losing them and have been around awhile. I'm doing fine without one so far. Yes, I still want to get one, just haven't pulled the trigger.
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