Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cAPSLOCK]

It's gonna be tough for a lot of idealistic Bitcoiners to accept the fact that some of bitcoin's "layer 2" is gonna be built by people who do not share the cypherpunk ethos.

There is actually more complaining about today's news than I expected.  Lot of the purists are reacting with "Not your keys not your coins" type sloganisms.  An Ethos I believed in from the beginning.  I had a Mt. Gox account... How many Bitcoin do they owe me?  ZERO.

But they are expecting a standard that is impossible for people with IQs south of 115 probably.  In other words the MAJORITY.  Steve Jobs changed the world because he knew his customers would never know how to use technical devices.  He made the Mac mouse have ONE button.  People scoffed.

Average folks (and even quite smart folks) need help with things.  With money, accounts, planning.  I mean most people don't buy a cruise ship to create their own floating self sovereign set of condos (Today I realized Elwar is probably going to buy so many ships... lol).

Anyway.  Terrible things will probably happen because of Paypal spoon feeding corn to the masses... Just like the Nigerian Price scams probably got sent to more email addresses that look like silvergranny@aol.com.  And PayPal themselves may screw over their customers.

Anyway... Little by little the world is coming to our little party.

It's gonna get messy.

Damnit we are going to go through yet another "The next Bitcoin" wave because of it!  *sigh*

It's so damn exciting!  How did we deserve to be HERE for this?

[Syke]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

[DaRude]

The whole "not your keys not your Bitcoin" has always been a bit too absolutist for me. It implies that you will lose your Bitcoin every time if you don't have full control of your keys at all times.

If you want to use a metaphorical valet temporarily you aren't failing some Bitcoin purity test.

You give your keys to the valet for convenience in hopes that he will bring your car back. You run a tiny risk of not getting it back, but some people like to valet their car.

This whole zero risk kinda thinking is what caused large swaths of the global population to hide under their beds like cowards for a minor flu bug. "not under your bed, not fully safe from flu/snake bites"  

Life is full of risks and its up to the risk taker to decide what risks are worth it for them. No sense in shaming granny for failing some Bitcoiner purity test bc she trust her keys to paypal or an exchange.

My neg opinion is not about "purity", but about functionality.
If they change functionality to "almost there", then I would be largely OK with it (for grannies, lol).
Right now, you can withdraw $$ from paypal to your bank account. People generally don't keep cash at paypal.
You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$.
Honestly, without ANY transactional possibility at paypal, it is a dud, but i think that transactional possibility would be there is step 2.

It is prefect for 20 a month hodl plans.

Go back to 2010 put away 20usd a month in btc let me know what you have now.

measured in in which units?
I don't want to accumulate btc to have more $$ in a few mo.
By the same token, you could buy in the cashapp, then move it to blockfi...you would have gotten more btc and more $$ (if $$ is the point) in a few month.
I see a benefit for those who have a large volume on paypal, maybe.

BTW, planB is also sharply negative:
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1318908402064625664

You said Paypal would be able to make a large profit off the Bitcoin granny stores and not the fiat.

"You can only buy bitcoin and have it at paypal, which would simply allow paypal to earn large % on it, which they can't with $$."

I demonstrated that granny would reap any capital gains profits from Bitcoin, not paypal, unless paypal commits outright fraud and theft.

What is to stop granny from hodling for years on Paypal.

By then she can likely directly withdraw it directly in BTC, or if not, she can convert her Bitcoins to a million each in fiat, then transfer the fiat to an exchange and buy Bitcoin that she can control the keys of.

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

They have that NY bitlicense i'm not even sure if that'd allow them to run a fractional reserve, regardless, any investment carries a risk so if they do lent anything out they have to insure it with their own $250 billion market cap. Any publicity is a good publicity, and i believe over all this is a net positive for BTC not sure why everyone got their panties in a bunch

[explorer]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

1) take investors'  money

2) invest in (shitcoin of choice)

3) proffit!

They invented a new game 

[philipma1957]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

1) take investors'  money

2) invest in (shitcoin of choice)

3) proffit!

They invented a new game  

They created more demand for btc. no more complex then that.

which is why i went and purchased $20 worth of btc on paypal

vs 20 worth on coinbase or bittrex.

Any place making new btc demand works for me.

[marcus_of_augustus]

which is why i went and purchased $20 worth of btc on paypal

vs 20 worth on coinbase or bittrex.

Any place making new btc demand works for me.

... you didn't buy bitcoin from Paypal, you bought and entry in their SQL db.

... or prove to me you own any bitcoin with paypal. it's like Mt. Gox ... after they closed the withdraw window.

[Biodom]

if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Paypal "invests those funds in liquid investments". So yes, they do earn interest on $$.

When was it written?
In April 2019 T-bill was 2.25-2.5%, but right now T-bill is at 0.08-0.09%, which is almost exactly zero comparing with 3%.
Don't take me wrong...I appreciate another thou/btc, but this does nothing for btc long term.
cashapp, on the other hand and everything Jack does has been genuine ...so far.

[Searing]

Yeah but....it's bitcoin and also 3 other shitcoins that we all know are completely worthless.

Not quite what I meant: They could have sold paypalcoin or some BS like that which isn't backed by anything. LTC is a little coin but at least it has a public mining community. Huffing ether... is, and I didn't see what the last one was.

I believe it's BCash, the biggest and most worthless scam coin of them all. The *king* of shitcoins (well, next to BSV of course).

Oh Bitcoin Trash! I remember that fondly, when it came out I swept a bunch of wallets, then converted it all to bitcoin. I think I even have a separate wallet for that one since I can't figure out how to tax the base value. It did.... well.

(You could say the base value was zero since it was "created" however it did ding the value of bitcoin so I think that should be taken into account. Since I converted it back to bitcoin one might also consider it a wash and I should continue to base value on the original acquisition price. Dunno, will figure out someday)

hhu
I think? If you move BTC Cash and BTC SV and other 'forks' off your main chain...it then is ALL profit...in other words it fell out of the sky at that price you moved

it at. Does not apply to cap gains...if it fell out of the sky say BTC cash at whatever it was at $214 usd or some such, in that it was ALL profit (like a gift) ..thus

if you had say 100 BTC and sold 100 BCH at say $400 at 15% cap gains and in my case (MN) 10% approx state tax that is 25% of $40,000.00 owed ($10k)

no matter how you cut it...mine is still riding on the original blockchains on all the forks...one time I was bored and used www.cointracker.io a free tracker

of BTC and Altcoins and put in like I think ALL the supposed BTC and some other Altcoin forks. Most of such is junk like 100 BTC is worth $1.98 on such forks. It

was boring and must be more than a couple dozen forks on the site...but since 2017 not any new real forks of any note....add altcoin wallets and setting up

manual wallets for not the public addresses on such altcoins...and it shows my total BTC/Crypto worth from day to day. It is a FREE service...so kinda slick.

anyway...my CPA says if MONEY falls out of the SKY you pay the full cap gains on whatever you sell it for in USD once you pull it off the blockchain...so the

day you pull your forked coin is the day it $$$ wise is you use for cap gains. Again, the cointracker site above..i keep track of my forked coins..but have not

pulled any....just a way to keep score.

brad

[Biodom]

Yeah but....it's bitcoin and also 3 other shitcoins that we all know are completely worthless.

Not quite what I meant: They could have sold paypalcoin or some BS like that which isn't backed by anything. LTC is a little coin but at least it has a public mining community. Huffing ether... is, and I didn't see what the last one was.

I believe it's BCash, the biggest and most worthless scam coin of them all. The *king* of shitcoins (well, next to BSV of course).

Oh Bitcoin Trash! I remember that fondly, when it came out I swept a bunch of wallets, then converted it all to bitcoin. I think I even have a separate wallet for that one since I can't figure out how to tax the base value. It did.... well.

(You could say the base value was zero since it was "created" however it did ding the value of bitcoin so I think that should be taken into account. Since I converted it back to bitcoin one might also consider it a wash and I should continue to base value on the original acquisition price. Dunno, will figure out someday)

hhu
I think? If you move BTC Cash and BTC SV and other 'forks' off your main chain...it then is ALL profit...in other words it fell out of the sky at that price you moved

it at. Does not apply to cap gains...if it fell out of the sky say BTC cash at whatever it was at $214 usd or some such, in that it was ALL profit (like a gift) ..thus

if you had say 100 BTC and sold 100 BCH at say $400 at 15% cap gains and in my case (MN) 10% approx state tax that is 25% of $40,000.00 owed ($10k)

no matter how you cut it...mine is still riding on the original blockchains on all the forks...one time I was bored and used www.cointracker.io a free tracker

of BTC and Altcoins and put in like I think ALL the supposed BTC and some other Altcoin forks. Most of such is junk like 100 BTC is worth $1.98 on such forks. It

was boring and must be more than a couple dozen forks on the site...but since 2017 not any new real forks of any note....add altcoin wallets and setting up

manual wallets for not the public addresses on such altcoins...and it shows my total BTC/Crypto worth from day to day. It is a FREE service...so kinda slick.

anyway...my CPA says if MONEY falls out of the SKY you pay the full cap gains on whatever you sell it for in USD once you pull it off the blockchain...so the

day you pull your forked coin is the day it $$$ wise is you use for cap gains. Again, the cointracker site above..i keep track of my forked coins..but have not

pulled any....just a way to keep score.

brad

this does appear to be correct, but who knows, they keep providing more and more "clarifications" that actually muddy the water.

[PoolMinor]

^ yeah, no

[imghttps://i.imgur.com/I3hiuVH.png[/img]

I want dem dang keys PayPal or you own my stash...
Amazing paypal is control of the little guys $btc forever
Typical bs

Nope you completely miss the point.

PayPal allows 350 million people to do this>

[img]https://i.imgur.com/IF5xrM4.png[/img

just for 20 usd.

If every account on bitcointalk did this it would make a pump.

So far I see 1 person who did this me and I see many like you that have zero understanding of greasing the wheels of progress.

your post is throwing sand in the wheel and gears and every post like it is doing the same.

Once again toss 20 dollars worth of grease and not a hand full of sand.

This is predicated on the assumption that actual Bitcoin is being bought during these transactions.
Remember MT.GOX? Willy bot, fake orders - fake volume.

There is a great reason to not allow incoming/outgoing BTC, the guise of blockchain tx.

Edit: I see marcus_of_augustus beat me to it.

[600watt]

gif foto maken

that meme would make an awesome book cover. that thing is closer to reality than everything I posted this year.

this is our mission.

for every no-coiner you safe from the shitcoin devils there are 70 virgin bitcoins waiting for you in paradise.

[JayJuanGee]

Where the fcuk are all the naysayers and bears?

Jbreher has been missed.

He must be busy setting his BSV buy orders (or would it be sell orders? since his buy orders would be executing with ongoing droppenings of such prized project that should be flippening bitcoin any moment, once it can get out of the lower .013xx / upper .012xx doldrums).  

My face is starting to feel like it is melting, a little bit.

14k tomorrow? 

Sure, remember $13,880 is our high from late June 2019 - so there will be some interest regarding how strong such previous resistance point might still be.

I am not proclaiming anything.. beyond merely feeling good about the decent probability that it may well be challenged in the coming days.. and may have decent odds of being broken through.

My face is starting to feel like it is melting, a little bit.

14k tomorrow? 

Or 15

I am thinking if we are able to meaningfully break above $13,880,. then the next resistance point would be in the $17,250 price arena... that's my tentative thinking (or at least has been my thinking for quite a while - and nothing really seems to be changing such sentiments).

[somac.]

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

I don't think so. If paypal was looking for yield they would hold the various stablecoins instead. The yield on BTC is dogshit compared to the stable coins.

They could literally transfer all the USD they hold in peoples accounts into tether and make a shit tonne. Of course it wouldn't last for long because they would crash the lending market, which will be the same for the BTC lending market if they start using blockfi etc. 

[somac.]

^ yeah, no

[imghttps://i.imgur.com/I3hiuVH.png[/img]

I want dem dang keys PayPal or you own my stash...
Amazing paypal is control of the little guys $btc forever
Typical bs

Nope you completely miss the point.

PayPal allows 350 million people to do this>

[img]https://i.imgur.com/IF5xrM4.png[/img

just for 20 usd.

If every account on bitcointalk did this it would make a pump.

So far I see 1 person who did this me and I see many like you that have zero understanding of greasing the wheels of progress.

your post is throwing sand in the wheel and gears and every post like it is doing the same.

Once again toss 20 dollars worth of grease and not a hand full of sand.

This is predicated on the assumption that actual Bitcoin is being bought during these transactions.
Remember MT.GOX? Willy bot, fake orders - fake volume.

There is a great reason to not allow incoming/outgoing BTC, the guise of blockchain tx.

Edit: I see marcus_of_augustus beat me to it.

And how are the hedging their position? if BTC goes to 100k and all the grannies withdraw their funds, Paypal suffers a major loss (just as mt gox did).

[El duderino_]

Belgium

Haha just found it a funny one 😂

[Biodom]

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

I don't think so. If paypal was looking for yield they would hold the various stablecoins instead. The yield on BTC is dogshit compared to the stable coins.

They could literally transfer all the USD they hold in peoples accounts into tether and make a shit tonne. Of course it wouldn't last for long because they would crash the lending market, which will be the same for the BTC lending market if they start using blockfi etc.  

Maybe...the main point is that paypal will not have bitcoin. Granny would have a database entry and paypal will hold some derivative contract aka they will not hold bitcoin either.
This is absolutely clear from their announcement, otherwise why you cannot move it out? Because bitcoin will NOT be there. Instead, there would be a bunch of IOUs.
If they would have "real" bitcoin, then why granny cannot take it out and, say, send it to coinbase if they are really concerned about granny losing the keys?

[somac.]

of course paypal will rip off granny because it would give her btc to blockfi/celsius while maintaining a database entry for her.
at, say, 3% a year, in 10 years paypal has 35% more btc, granny has the same amount in btc (in an unlikey scenario that there are no fees).
if granny puts $$ in paypal, paypal would not benefit as much since there is almost no interest in $$.
it's a bank,a bitcoin bank.

I don't think so. If paypal was looking for yield they would hold the various stablecoins instead. The yield on BTC is dogshit compared to the stable coins.

They could literally transfer all the USD they hold in peoples accounts into tether and make a shit tonne. Of course it wouldn't last for long because they would crash the lending market, which will be the same for the BTC lending market if they start using blockfi etc.  

Maybe...the main point is that paypal will not have bitcoin. Granny would have a database entry and paypal will hold some derivative contract aka they will not hold bitcoin either.
This is absolutely clear from their announcement, otherwise why you cannot move it out? Because bitcoin will NOT be there. Instead, there would be a bunch of IOUs.
If they would have "real" bitcoin, then why granny cannot take it out and, say, send it to coinbase if they are really concerned about granny losing the keys?

It is definitely odd that they won't have deposits/withdraws, but maybe that is actually on their plans ahead. Or maybe they don't think their customers are interested in withdrawing. Thinking more conspiracy wise, they could be in bed with the establishment and this is the plan to tame the FOMO, have everyone buy through Paypal rather than bid price up on exchange. Paypal holds no coins and never intends to and in the event that they can't surpress price, and people cash out for major fiat profits, the CB covers their losses.

I don't think there are any other alternatives because if it is some masterplan and someone doesn't cover their losses, they would end up suffering major losses when people convert to fiat and they have no hedge.

Seriously, is it likely that Paypal is a fractional reserve operation and management are willing to take the risk to expose this so they can make some fees of bitcoin?

[Cryptotourist]

So, let me get this straight ... we should be happy about paypal? I don't think so.
When granny buys "BTC" on paypal - she hedges into a IOU in ... $. No actual BTC price moving buys and sells there.
Sure she's going to rip the profits if she hodls that thing, but that's not the point. The point is that BTC is not actually BTC - thus BTC is not being used at all.

Paypal stands for the wrong kind of exposure in BTC atm - crippled exposure - but exposure nevertheless.
Use BTC people, directly, that's how adoption will come. This guy gets it:

1- Register here in 30 seconds
2- Go to the order page, select the package and gateway method you want.
3- You can pay directly pay with cryptocurrency like Bitcoin or pay with card indirectly

Agreeing mostly with marcus on this one, not Lambie. What a fucking strange world indeed.

Go BTC, go!

[nutildah]

1. The PayPal news is fantastic as it onboards a new audience into the world of bitcoin (kind of like the Cash App except 20x bigger and more important).
2. This is one of the first major steps toward crypto being directly integrated into a large economy of goods and services.
3. Crypto sold there may be non-withdrawable now but ideally that will change in the future -- this is what happened with eToro.

If PayPal never introduces a withdrawal (or even conversion) feature then I will be sad and yes it will be all for not, but I do not believe this to be the case.

4. I'm rooting for it for selfish purposes as right now its an absolute bitch to convert BTC into cash for me as crypto exchanges aren't legal where I currently live.

[Cryptotourist]

Anyway, enough of this shitcoinery talk on WO!

fuck.paypal_CCMF.gif