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Question: Highest price we'll see in 2022:
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100,000 - 0 (0%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25528287 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (158 posts by 14 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JayJuanGee
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September 06, 2020, 09:00:57 PM
Last edit: September 06, 2020, 09:11:14 PM by JayJuanGee

Whenever I refer to a random poster on this forum I use the the pronoun "they" rather than he or she.
(And yes "they" is grammatically correct for referring to the singular, or so I've heard.)
And not because of all this politically correct gender pronoun nonsense, but simply because  I dont automatically assume
the gender as being a "he" (albeit on this forum, that's usually the case).
I only mention this because in all this swaystar hullabaloo, (apparently triggered by a post of mine)
I was actually suspecting this sway character could be a she. (or not)

back in the day, as in way back in the day, when i learned english (in two different english speaking countries) i thought i learned that when a singular person of unknown sex was referred to "he" could refer to either sex.

however *main memory checksum error* so..

You learned correctly. Language is plastic (ask JJG about that one). Rules change.

You are suggesting that I twist language to my advantage in some kinds of ways?  

Regarding this particular topic, I already chimed in against the use of they to refer to a singular, but I understand peeps are going to do what peeps are going to do, so I think that I am making less of a BIG deal out of the whole phenomenon, even though I had already chimed in a wee bit about that particular topic.

Anyhow, more broadly, for some reason, you seem to be using me as "language is plastic" example ... but I am not sure about why you are using me for such an example, except maybe you are mad at me for calling you misleading, disingenuous and ridiculous, too many times, perhaps?  poor wee lil picnic bear.   Cry Cry Cry


 Tongue Tongue

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Price side, I see again green on my Bitcoin ticker widget app, that's enough of a good morning. Need to pick a day to buy some corn in September for my DCA long term strategy. I welcome suggestions.

Divide your DCA allowance into 4 parts. Buy 1/4 right away. Thereafter, buy 1/4 each of the next three weeks. Does that not help?
Thank Jay, sounds good to me. I am about to try this strategy during September.  Cool

Good luck, and don't blame me if it does not feel as if it worked out well for you, financially, psychologically, or otherwise.

 Tongue Tongue

JJG I've come to attain cosmic harmony with completely ignoring anything he produces. My brain has evolved to the point where it's developed a JJG-blocker for quoted text.

Now that is some real humor.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I will believe it when I see it.

 Wink

I was merely trying to make a joke.   Wink

Joke does not work no more if having to explain it.     Tongue Tongue Tongue

It worked JJ, it worked. Grin



Well, I am thrilled that we seem to be having such a seemingly subliminal positive effect upon each other. #nohomo
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nullius
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September 06, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1), Last of the V8s (1)

I really don't understand this polarization between "we are all gonna die from covid" vs "it is completely irrelevant and people die just because they are old or ill". Manipulating the stats or simply spreading missinformation/fake data doesn't help either.

There are many people whose position about this particular subject is in a much more healthy and reasonable middle point.

Yes!  I am an extremist in most everything, and proud of it.  Here, I will argue for—not the “middle of the road”, but a nuanced analysis.  Observe that the two opposite poles you describe are simple “easy answers” of the type for which people tend to reach.  I think that the situation is more complicated.

I myself have never said that Covid is inconsequential.  To the contrary:  In my first public statement about it, I said, “Some of you will die from the coronavirus....  The virus may kill me, too; maybe, maybe not.”  I then proceeded to explain at length why we should not destroy the world whilst failing to save it.

Perhaps the concept of managing and accepting risks in balance with worse risks may be too difficult for most people?

Every position is mostly a result of past personal experiences.

How many people here have experienced hunger?

I mean:  Real hunger.  Chronic malnutrition.  A starvation diet for an extended period of time.  To feel your body slowly wasting away, dissolving itself from the inside out, as you weaken and descend into madness.  You lie down, feel too weak to get up, fall half-unconscious, dream about food—any food...

I have that experience.  I think it’s likely that soon, many more people will have that experience, too.

Most governments worldwide have been following exactly the policy that they would take up, if they intended to destroy their economies and cause a global Depression.  That is not a “conspiracy theory”:  It is a blackbox observation of actual behaviour, with malice and stupidity being indistinguishable.  I believe that I have used the term economic arson.

I have been saying for the past six months that I fear starvation more than I fear Covid...

Whereas I don’t brush Covid off or pretend that it doesn’t exist.  I know people who have had it, including someone close to me.  That was very worrisome; I mentioned it at the time on this forum.  I myself am at high risk of complications due to pre-existing conditions.  I have said this before:  I am taking personal precautions, which do not affect society.

So as for my own experience.  Thereupon, how about this for a change:  Isolate nursing homes.  Encourage people with high risk factors to get a little bit “OCD”.  And otherwise—let life go on.  Perhaps encourage some moderate precautions that don’t leave masses of people totally dysfunctional.  Improved hygiene and a social respect for personal space are good ideas anyway—hey, I never wanted anybody within two meters of me unless we intended to kiss!  I said that before Covid:  Back off.  What is unacceptable is turning the whole world into a prison, and potentially a starvation GULAG, in failed attempts to prevent the ongoing spread of a virus that has low lethality for people without high risk factors.

Too nuanced?  I am trying to be blunt.

Since the black swan called "nine eleven" convinced the world that anywhere, anytime, anyhow, something life threatening can happen to anyone.
Looked at this with emotional distance, it's a simple fact of life, the universe and all that.
Most of "civilized" people just not were aware about it until then, and the media constanly reminds them about that.
The world is in panic mode. Panic is a good foundation for stupid actions. This makes me worry more about the future than covid or the suicide bomber that might live next door.

Panic is also a foundation for malicious actions.  Panicked people are easy to manipulate en masse.  (Insert book-length post here.)



Why the hell is the rest of the world still in lockdown mode? This is fkn ridiculous.

Agreed.  I was always against the lockdowns.

What’s much scarier than Covid is that “lockdown” is prison terminology being openly applied to people sheep who fancy themselves to be “free” because they live in “democracies”.

I can’t believe the world basically stopped because of something with such a low death rate. This post won’t earn me any friends but these are my opinions. The whole thing has been farcical!

Also agreed.  Though the death rate won’t be so low if (when?) economies are imploded to the point that people are starving in the streets.



Almost everything that I have said in the foregoing is a repeat of what I said in March and April.  All that has changed is that we are further along on the same trajectory toward global disaster.
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September 06, 2020, 09:09:13 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (2), kurious (1), gappie (1)

Tiresome back and forth
Covid this, covid that. Argghh!
Time to snooze again
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September 06, 2020, 09:12:03 PM
Merited by strawbs (1)

I am so sick and tired of reading debates about covid from both sides. I tend to now just switch off and skip the topic. Everything has been said over and over. Like beating a dead horse.

Now let's get back to observing bitcoin and stop observing covid. Observing $10300. 5 digits still holding on.
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September 06, 2020, 09:12:53 PM

Since I brought it up, I'll be happy to change the subject back to WO'ing bitcoin.

Let's see what's happening in the bitcoin marke--- ok still nothing.  Cool

Btw, who sold sub $10K ?
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September 06, 2020, 09:21:25 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

Language is plastic (ask JJG about that one). Rules change.

[...]

Anyhow, more broadly, for some reason, you seem to be using me as "language is plastic" example ... but I am not sure about why you are using me for such an example, except maybe you are mad at me for calling you misleading, disingenuous and ridiculous, too many times, perhaps?  poor wee lil picnic bear.   Cry Cry Cry


 Tongue Tongue

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

jbrehrer is shilling a contentious hardfork of the English language, and accusing you of using “ANYONECANSPEND” words.  Is my witnessing of this transaction valid?

Dr. Craig S. Wright created the English language.  Maybe we should ask him.



As to the usage dispute, I have been preparing replies to JimboToronto and others.  Some of these little essays do take time.
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September 06, 2020, 09:25:07 PM
Last edit: September 06, 2020, 09:56:06 PM by strawbs

Observing $10,309 - a 24 hour high. And a weekly high, given that weeks begin on Sundays, for some antiquated reason. Surely worth a glass of Rioja to celebrate.
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September 06, 2020, 09:32:53 PM

Has anyone got any charts with lines? Anyone?

I need some charts with lines.
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September 06, 2020, 09:40:08 PM
Merited by Torque (1)



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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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September 06, 2020, 09:53:41 PM

What does it mean jojo? I dun geddit Embarrassed


 It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.


fine. keep your secrets  Roll Eyes

new game, i think. answer a question with someones elses quote?



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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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September 06, 2020, 10:08:15 PM
Merited by nutildah (1)

Has anyone got any charts with lines? Anyone?

I need some charts with lines.

at this point i would just settle for a line, period. and i swore off that a loooong time ago too.
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September 06, 2020, 10:35:29 PM

come on you beautiful bastard, give us some fucking bounce. Looked promising to break up few hours ago, but it's struggling again.

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September 06, 2020, 11:01:39 PM
Merited by strawbs (22), El duderino_ (4), LFC_Bitcoin (2), vapourminer (1), aesma (1), AlcoHoDL (1), goldkingcoiner (1)

Covid arguments
inevitably pointless
it is what it is

inevitably
what will bring us all solace
is Bitcoin of course


(and by the way..)


The Wall Observer
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Freedom of merit
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September 06, 2020, 11:36:55 PM

Covid arguments
inevitably pointless
it is what it is

inevitably
what will bring us all solace
is Bitcoin of course


(and by the way..)


The Wall Observer
Does not need to Justify
Freedom of merit

I don't have anymore merit so IOU 1 merit.
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September 06, 2020, 11:44:48 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (2), kurious (1), Last of the V8s (1), OutOfMemory (1)

OT: Covid-19 crap / Braindump

There's this dude on Twitter named @JamesTodaroMD, who is talking a lot about T-Cell Memory serving as a form of immunity to Coronaviruses, and Covid-19.

It's being hypothesized that folks with healthy immune systems, are near middle age, and have no co-morbidities, have good protection against Covid-19, if you've had colds in the past (been exposed to Coronaviruses before, on several occasions); can fight off and develop an immunity to a strain of Covid-19.

Also, T-Cells apparently are capable of forming immunity memory against Covid-19, and this is leading to PCR Tests for re-testing infections as near useless. If you've had Covid-19 already, test negative; it's possible to retest positive, while asymptomatic, at a later date, because the PCR test is detecting dead viral shedding of a Covid-19 infection that was already taken care of by your T-Cell memory, generating the needed immune response.

Also, it is speculated by the medical community there is "at least one more strain of Covid-19" which is possible to become full-course reinfected with, again.

Again, speaking about healthy folk here, with strong immune systems, and no co-morbidities.
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September 06, 2020, 11:53:46 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2020, 12:21:21 AM by goldkingcoiner
Merited by El duderino_ (3)

OT: Covid-19 crap / Braindump

There's this dude on Twitter named @JamesTodaroMD, who is talking a lot about T-Cell Memory serving as a form of immunity to Coronaviruses, and Covid-19.

It's being hypothesized that folks with healthy immune systems, are near middle age, and have no co-morbidities, have good protection against Covid-19, if you've had colds in the past (been exposed to Coronaviruses before, on several occasions); can fight off and develop an immunity to a strain of Covid-19.

Also, T-Cells apparently are capable of forming immunity memory against Covid-19, and this is leading to PCR Tests for re-testing infections as near useless. If you've had Covid-19 already, test negative; it's possible to retest positive, while asymptomatic, at a later date, because the PCR test is detecting dead viral shedding of a Covid-19 infection that was already taken care of by your T-Cell memory, generating the needed immune response.

Also, it is speculated by the medical community there is "at least one more strain of Covid-19" which is possible to become full-course reinfected with, again.

Again, speaking about healthy folk here, with strong immune systems, and no co-morbidities.

The longer we take for a vaccine, the more mutations there will be. Which is by itself not something you want.

Russia prematurely released a vaccine without testing much. Europe makes promises and shows no results. USA's too busy trying to keep everyone happy so they don't riot, especially with the corona economy and a president who spends his time acting out WWE fights... We got nothing.

Even if over 70% of the deaths are 65+ years or already sick. We remain with 30% of the young and healthy dropping like flies. Corona lungs will already be permanently damaged. What happens if you get corona again? Are you going to become part of the "elderly and already sick" death statistic?

Our biggest hope right now is that Europe or Israel does something.
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September 06, 2020, 11:54:01 PM
Merited by Last of the V8s (1)

Sunday passes by
One more week must be endured
'til haikus return

Until then, we watch
Lines, charts. Merits come and go.
So sweet to hodl.

Lying awake now
Wondering whether hodl
Should be one or two?
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September 07, 2020, 12:02:42 AM

OT: Covid-19 crap / Braindump

There's this dude on Twitter named @JamesTodaroMD, who is talking a lot about T-Cell Memory serving as a form of immunity to Coronaviruses, and Covid-19.

It's being hypothesized that folks with healthy immune systems, are near middle age, and have no co-morbidities, have good protection against Covid-19, if you've had colds in the past (been exposed to Coronaviruses before, on several occasions); can fight off and develop an immunity to a strain of Covid-19.

Also, T-Cells apparently are capable of forming immunity memory against Covid-19, and this is leading to PCR Tests for re-testing infections as near useless. If you've had Covid-19 already, test negative; it's possible to retest positive, while asymptomatic, at a later date, because the PCR test is detecting dead viral shedding of a Covid-19 infection that was already taken care of by your T-Cell memory, generating the needed immune response.

Also, it is speculated by the medical community there is "at least one more strain of Covid-19" which is possible to become full-course reinfected with, again.

Again, speaking about healthy folk here, with strong immune systems, and no co-morbidities.

Some of that/all of that is probably true, but what to do about it is up in the air. I'm below 40 so even with comorbidities I'm unlikely to die from COVID, I have a very strong immune system (I haven't been seriously ill since childhood, the few times I catch something I sleep it off with a bit of fever and it's gone in one night), should I seek to get the virus ? How would I do that ?

Also, some of the worst cases of COVID seem to be linked to the immune system going berserk, so my strong immune system might be a disadvantage after all.
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September 07, 2020, 12:07:05 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

As a matter of thinking differently about goals, I posit that, unless a major expenditure is desired, there should be no “liquidation” phase for any asset with the fundamentals to constitute a long-term investment (as opposed to a short-term speculation).  Given your apparent familiarity with estate planning, you can probably guess why:  A goal of parlaying personal success into the intergenerational accumulation of familial wealth.

Sure it is possible that you could suggest that one of your goals is to pass on all or some of your wealth, but seems to be somewhat unrealistic to suggest that to be any kind of reasonable goal that should motivate the vast majority of regular investors.

Cynical though I am, that is to me a shocking view of most investors.  Has the world really changed so much while I was sleeping?  “Back in the day”, I think, the goal that I stated was a significant motivating factor for most people who were striving to accrue wealth, and even a primary motive for not a few.

“I want a better future for my children and grandchildren, and their grandchildren” is unrealistic to expect as a motive for most investors?

On the other hand, maybe that explains why the markets are so fucked up:  The types of speculators who seek to Get Rich Quick are not typically long-term thinkers!  Of course, they would not give a hoot about their descendants.  Perhaps they may be fanatical Christians:  They take no thought for the morrow (Matthew 6:34).

What is best left to one’s children?  Depreciating fiat currency?  Or a portfolio of gold, real estate, and nowadays, Bitcoin?  (I don’t consider stocks to be a “long-term” investment, unless either it is a large share of a privately held company under management personally known and trusted, or you have a Warren Buffet strategy with commensurate capital.)

Sure if you put the assets in a kind of trust, then the you have chosen the various allocations, but if you give the assets to the kids outright, then as soon as they get control of the asset, they can choose to reallocate into whatever kind of asset that they prefer, including if they want to convert such assets into hookers, lambos and blow.  Their choice.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Of course, such planning must assure insofar as practicable that one’s heirs are of a character to grow the wealth and pass it on, rather than irresponsibly dissipating it.  Now, there is a discussion which could delve deeply into the context of the rule against perpetuities—among many other topics:  The legal terms of devises cannot substitute for sound breeding and upraising.

So, yeah, generally speaking, the rule against perpetuities suggest that you can only create some kind of legal instrument to control your assets and the wealth determinations for the measurement of any life in being plus 21 years.. So you are not going to be able to control how those assets are held forever, and I am NOT even sure if that is a reasonable goal,
(Boldface is Jay’s.)

I know that this will shock the hyper-individualists in the peanut gallery:  As an ethical matter, heirs do not receive bequests as their individual property.  Ethically if not legally, it is collective property held in trust for the family—for posterity, for future generations.

To protest this would be shameful.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.  With every privilege comes a duty.  People who receive wealth from their parents must accept that duty; thus, enjoy it though they may within the spans of their own lives, they must tend it wisely, and ultimately pass down the gifts that they have received.  You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

No, heirs don’t have a right to spend their inheritances on “hookers, lambos and blow”.  If they do choose to do so, at least they should be subject to severe social shaming.  I think that used to be the case, when prodigal heirs were the exception rather than the rule.

Those who insist on having only absolute individual property rights should relieve themselves of this burden by having a solemn talk with their parents, and requesting to be disinherited.  That’s only fair.  Such individualists should earn their own wealth all by themselves, totally alone, and thus free up their parents to re-allocate bequests to their other children, or spend it all on their own pleasures, or bequeath it all to charity, or put it all into gold and then sink the gold to the bottom of the ocean.  It is their individual property right, yes?

That said, I don’t think that laws and legally enforceable terms in wills can help much here.  Perhaps a bit.  For example, once upon a time, in some European countries, there were laws that protected familial ownership of the family home.  If the inheritor of the family home tried to sell it outside the family, other potential heirs who were next in line could challenge and prohibit the sale; thus, the family home was effectually inalienable from the family, unless a unanimity of a whole generation should be in folly.

This must be unimaginable to most Americans:  There were families who held the same home for centuries.  I do not speak only of the nobility with their familial castles and palaces:  In some parts of Europe, it was not even rare for a family of peasant freeholders or the petite bourgeoisie to hold the same home for ten or twenty generations.  I think that most of this broke down during the Twentieth Century, and most of the relevant laws are probably no longer on the books.  It’s a shame.  Those people had excellent social stability.  They were productive and happy.  Children did not rebel against their parents, as seems to be expected nowadays (!).

But such things depend on the living.  Such “hand from beyond the grave” long, complex chains of devises as prohibited by the Rule Against Perpetuities could not instill in prodigal heirs the character that they lacked; and if they did not lack such character, the terms of long-ago wills would only be an unnecessary burden.

The point of my post was that the human element is much more important than the legalities.  If you have good kids, you don’t need fancy wills or trusts; but if your kids are

snot-nosed non-appreciative brats

...then no legal instruments can make them behave themselves after you are gone.

but hey, I understand that people sometimes want to contribute to some kind of lasting legacy that extends beyond their lives and perhaps touches the lives of many others.

Not just any others:  Their own descendants.  I hope that it is not politically incorrect nowadays to point out that people do and should prefer to benefit their own descendants over arbitrary “others”.  If so, then surely, mankind will go extinct.  I think that Darwin would agree with me:  What creature could long survive, if it did not prefer its own offspring?

(Of course, people often make bequests to charity, etc.—just as they often give such gifts in their lifetimes.  It is a different motive.  My point is that a bequest to one’s own posterity is very specific, and not just based on a vague notion of touching someone’s life out there.)



I suppose that this ran far afield of the original discussion about investments.  Re-reading the above before posting, I hope that it doesn’t come off as too negative; it’s certainly not intended to be argumentative.

It seems that whenever I start to think that I am too cynical, I find that to the contrary, I am naïve; and that idea that most investors don’t even include intergenerational wealth in their explicit goals is really shocking to me.  Perhaps, to some degree, that may be the “ethnic” in me speaking; in some parts of the world, much of what I have said would be commonplace.  But then, as noted above, such thinking used to be commonplace amongst Europeans, too.

No wonder the world is doomed.  Life is cheap, and people have lost all sense of purpose.  They are all short-term thinkers:  Life is short!

Well, it’s an important insight, in and of itself...  I’m glad to have this discussion.
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September 07, 2020, 12:16:31 AM

What does it mean jojo? I dun geddit Embarrassed


 It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.


fine. keep your secrets  Roll Eyes

In Bitcoinland, it is unsurprising that some should be cryptic.

Code:
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----

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kIIWNt8NvYgaczHtjp3t61wW/+Ge+kP4ozXyLr72cI1MpTUJKBTa2LFLbQvLpajf
0sAGAadfjt+a4MQE7D2+SO7yWdYZABZqGbrCRSAVZ/4QhGHddm1gM8ODi06YhMBy
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