[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool

[kjj]

Hi forrestv,

There is a lot of interest in partial confirmations of transactions and p2pool has been proposed as a reasonable solution (see here). Specifically, the p2pool sharechain could guarantee that it will include a given txn in its next block (barring a conflicting transaction sneaking into the blockchain). Could you please comment on the feasibility of implementing such functionality into p2pool? What about the benefit? Does p2pool guaranteeing the inclusion of a txn provide any real benefit over sending your txn to the network and waiting for the majority of nodes to get it?

Thanks!

This would centralize control of p2pool, and would destroy it.  People mine on p2pool because it allows them to control the blocks that they create.  We will reject any proposal to force us to include transactions that do not meet our own local policy.

[1714201710]

1714201710

[1714201710]

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[1714201710]

1714201710

[rav3n_pl]

With 840 MH/s, you are getting 0.39/day (on 100% luck). Check if your average is close to it. Block reward doesn't matter, your average reward matter.

I didn't get any reward on the last few blocks. cgminer was running. p2pool was running.

See your stats page and see wgo....

[streblo]

Hi forrestv,

There is a lot of interest in partial confirmations of transactions and p2pool has been proposed as a reasonable solution (see here). Specifically, the p2pool sharechain could guarantee that it will include a given txn in its next block (barring a conflicting transaction sneaking into the blockchain). Could you please comment on the feasibility of implementing such functionality into p2pool? What about the benefit? Does p2pool guaranteeing the inclusion of a txn provide any real benefit over sending your txn to the network and waiting for the majority of nodes to get it?

Thanks!

Are you talking about something like regular unconfirmed transactions floating around the bitcoin network, waiting for inclusion into the next block?
So you would like to have p2pool say "we got this tx, will include it soon!"?

I don't see the advantage..
You can already see these [bitcoin] tx in your bitcoind (no idea if possible in a stock bitcoind) or on one of the pages, blockexplorer or the like. android bitcoin wallet shows tx too.
Now, seeing that tx there, or having additionally p2pool say to include it, makes no difference: as soon as someone else creates a conflicting tx, like a doublespend, and his tx gets included into the chain first (higher fees, quicker propagation, luck, he mined the next block himself), your original tx is down the toilet anyway.
p2pool is relatively small, so even if p2pool says "yep, will include your tx" as well as "..and we'll drop any future conflicting tx", it would only work if no other pool/miner finds the next block first and includes the unwanted conflicting tx.

So, what is your aim?

Ente

Thank you for the comments. First a small aside: regarding a competing tx getting into the blockchain before the first due to a higher tx fee, I don't believe this is the case. Ie if you broadcast send 10BTC from A->B with .005BTC fee and, 10 mins later, broadcast a tx from A->C with 1btc fee, I believe the latter is rejected. Otherwise I believe "race attacks" (is that the right name?) would be stupendously easy to implement.

I believe the hope is to reduce the trust you need in a pool that they will include your txn. If a centralized pool says, "yep, we got tx0, we're working on it!" you have to trust them. OTOH, if p2pool says, "consensus agrees that we got tx0, and the sharechain now requires we included it (if it matches eligibility criteria)!" you can believe this more likely to be true. Is this wrong?

Finally, AFAIK, you are correct about this doing nothing for many double spending attacks. Perhaps the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost.

This would centralize control of p2pool, and would destroy it.  People mine on p2pool because it allows them to control the blocks that they create.  We will reject any proposal to force us to include transactions that do not meet our own local policy.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. This additionally functionality, as I interpret it, would allow a p2pool node to check the sharechain to see if a tx is going to be included or not, and know with certainty that if p2pool finds the next block, it WILL be included (if another pool finds the next block with a competing tx, then obviously all bets are off). If a tx doesn't meet p2pool criteria, it won't be added to the "include list" and it's inclusion won't be forced on p2pool by any means.

[kjj]

This would centralize control of p2pool, and would destroy it.  People mine on p2pool because it allows them to control the blocks that they create.  We will reject any proposal to force us to include transactions that do not meet our own local policy.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. This additionally functionality, as I interpret it, would allow a p2pool node to check the sharechain to see if a tx is going to be included or not, and know with certainty that if p2pool finds the next block, it WILL be included (if another pool finds the next block with a competing tx, then obviously all bets are off). If a tx doesn't meet p2pool criteria, it won't be added to the "include list" and it's inclusion won't be forced on p2pool by any means.

p2pool doesn't have a criteria.  Each individual p2pool node sets their own criteria.

You can look at the share chain and see if and how many shares were created that did include that transaction, but that doesn't tell you anything at all about the next share or the next block.

[Subo1977]

after upgrade of P2Pool this night i got :


2012-08-27 08:10:03.032304 >     Bitcoin version too old! Upgrade to 0.6.4 or newer!


where can i get the 0.6.4 bitcoin ? 

[Gyrsur]

after upgrade of P2Pool this night i got :


2012-08-27 08:10:03.032304 >     Bitcoin version too old! Upgrade to 0.6.4 or newer!


where can i get the 0.6.4 bitcoin ? 

LOL Ask Gavin. 

[rav3n_pl]

after upgrade of P2Pool this night i got :


2012-08-27 08:10:03.032304 >     Bitcoin version too old! Upgrade to 0.6.4 or newer!


where can i get the 0.6.4 bitcoin ? 

I just git pull and complie...

[Subo1977]

I use bitcoin with ubuntu/ppa. There is 0.6.3 the latest. Isn't 0.6.4 unstable?

[Smoovious]

There is a reason why, if you are not beta-testing future versions, that you should just stick to release versions

-- Smoov

[Subo1977]

There is a reason why, if you are not beta-testing future versions, that you should just stick to release versions

-- Smoov

Ok, I understand the difference between stable and unstable.

why did P2Pool need an unstable version of Bitcoin?

[rav3n_pl]

There is a reason why, if you are not beta-testing future versions, that you should just stick to release versions

-- Smoov

Ok, I understand the difference between stable and unstable.

why did P2Pool need an unstable version of Bitcoin?

Load zip form #1 post nad use stable p2pool on stable bitcoin...

[Subo1977]

There is a reason why, if you are not beta-testing future versions, that you should just stick to release versions

-- Smoov

Ok, I understand the difference between stable and unstable.

why did P2Pool need an unstable version of Bitcoin?

Load zip form #1 post nad use stable p2pool on stable bitcoin...

o.k. I have now taken the Bitcoind and p2pool from git and anything is good.

Thanks.

[rav3n_pl]

How it is possible that we see on graphs "Desired version" from 1 to 5?
v4 is just posted, so from where is v5?

[rav3n_pl]

How it is possible that we see on graphs "Desired version" from 1 to 5?
v4 is just posted, so from where is v5?

P2Pool

Graphs

Version: 5.0-dirty

Pool rate: 301GH/s (8.9% stale) Share difficulty: 594

No, it is not this. AFIK sharechain version is not p2pool version.

[Smoovious]

How it is possible that we see on graphs "Desired version" from 1 to 5?
v4 is just posted, so from where is v5?

P2Pool

Graphs

Version: 5.0-dirty

Pool rate: 301GH/s (8.9% stale) Share difficulty: 594

No, it is not this. AFIK sharechain version is not p2pool version.

Correct.

You're seeing some v5 now, because forrestv is already working on, and doing some testing with, the next version. v4 is the current release, however.

v5 has some changes that the next release of bitcoind is expected to have (from what I've heard in the in-channel chatter).

So, some people who are beta testing that version of bitcoind, are also testing the next p2pool version being developed too.

-- Smoov

[weirdgod]

I am currently on latest p2pool (3.1), mining with cgminer (2.7.4)...
Since few weeks ago a few minutes after start of cgminer, on system with 3 GPUs, only one of the GPUs still works at full power, while other two go to IDLE (mining only with few MH/s, instead of few hundreds). See the screenshot below... What is curious is the message - "Pool 0 not providing work fast enough" ...
Anyone experiencing the same? Any idea how to resolve this? I reported it to cgminer thread as well, but not sure why the problem...
Bitcoind is 0.6.3.


http://s11.postimage.org/s0ldetish/problem2012_08_30_151010.png

[JayCoin]

P2pool.info is showing block 196436 as a p2pool block even though it isn't.

[Lumpy]

P2pool.info is showing block 196436 as a p2pool block even though it isn't.

Blockchain.info thinks it is too:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/276699/00000000000005a98ef244f99c1cf2c2df9c49d94c840a30860f94c101d08009

[twmz]

P2pool.info is showing block 196436 as a p2pool block even though it isn't.

Blockchain.info thinks it is too:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/276699/00000000000005a98ef244f99c1cf2c2df9c49d94c840a30860f94c101d08009

Same problem as last time.  Someone is apparently running a private fork of p2pool out there somewhere and p2pool.info is detecting the blocks they find as our blocks because they have the funny output in the coinbase transaction and the p2pool donation address as an output.

I'll manually fix this one when I get home tonight.

[Subo1977]

Who own's the BTC Adress
1FZ75WMKHmbTQiDyxMcu6XiDL2Yx7ScU1o


This adress Produce 100% Reject's on my node  http://p2pool-cologne.dyndns.org:9332  !!!!!!

Greets