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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2032454 times)
rav3n_pl
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June 02, 2012, 10:29:16 PM
 #2501

p2pool seems to far too regularly get 12-24+ hr blocks.  When difficulty increases, that's going to get even longer.
Slush: 5-19 blocks/day @ 1300GH/s
P2pool: 2-5 blocks/day @ 200GH/s
Who wins? Where you can get more BTC?
My poor little 100-170MH/s makes 10x less in Slush than I take form p2pool.
I get 0,02 -0,04 /block in p2pool and about 0.0002/block in slush...

We just need pump hash rate a bit and block will come Smiley Just not everyone gets PPLNS idea...
You NEED mine 24/7 there! No jumping!

BTW: preparing additional node on free cloudy VPS in europe, it is leeching bitcoin blocks now Smiley If it will keep pool software running I`ll post address. No fancy thighs like p2poolmining, just plain simple node.

This is great deal for lazy/private miners: no registration, no need to run own bitcion client, just point miner using bitcoin address as user name and ready Smiley

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mdude77
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June 03, 2012, 12:44:28 AM
 #2502

p2pool seems to far too regularly get 12-24+ hr blocks.  When difficulty increases, that's going to get even longer.
Slush: 5-19 blocks/day @ 1300GH/s
P2pool: 2-5 blocks/day @ 200GH/s
Who wins? Where you can get more BTC?
My poor little 100-170MH/s makes 10x less in Slush than I take form p2pool.
I get 0,02 -0,04 /block in p2pool and about 0.0002/block in slush...

We just need pump hash rate a bit and block will come Smiley Just not everyone gets PPLNS idea...
You NEED mine 24/7 there! No jumping!


I don't think you understand.  p2pool either has the worst luck in the world, or there is something wrong with it.  The recorded 90 days stats show it at 90% of what it should be.  Someone else here said he tested it for 6 months, splitting his work 50/50, and he came out much further ahead on the non p2pool pool.

It may work for users with really low hash rates, but it doesn't cut it for the rest of us.  I suspect if you try a free pool like ozcoin, you'll see what I mean.

M

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bitpop
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June 03, 2012, 12:53:50 AM
 #2503

90% isnt that bad, you still gets 0 fees and network protection.

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c_k
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June 03, 2012, 02:46:40 AM
 #2504

Isn't that effectively 10% fee?

Just like deepbit pps?

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June 03, 2012, 02:49:09 AM
 #2505

Exactly with more benefits.

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af_newbie
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June 03, 2012, 03:40:17 AM
 #2506

p2pool seems to far too regularly get 12-24+ hr blocks.  When difficulty increases, that's going to get even longer.
Slush: 5-19 blocks/day @ 1300GH/s
P2pool: 2-5 blocks/day @ 200GH/s
Who wins? Where you can get more BTC?
My poor little 100-170MH/s makes 10x less in Slush than I take form p2pool.
I get 0,02 -0,04 /block in p2pool and about 0.0002/block in slush...

We just need pump hash rate a bit and block will come Smiley Just not everyone gets PPLNS idea...
You NEED mine 24/7 there! No jumping!

BTW: preparing additional node on free cloudy VPS in europe, it is leeching bitcoin blocks now Smiley If it will keep pool software running I`ll post address. No fancy thighs like p2poolmining, just plain simple node.

This is great deal for lazy/private miners: no registration, no need to run own bitcion client, just point miner using bitcoin address as user name and ready Smiley


Try 50btc.com (or btcguild or abcpool). 
I've given up on p2pool.  There is something seriously wrong with it (or I just got a really bad luck.  Variance is a bitch, I guess)

In 12 hours on p2pool, my 3.5Gh/s rig generated (to be paid when block is found) a whole 0.31 BTC.  Yesterday I switched to 50btc.com, the earnings were 1.15 BTC in the same 12 hour period.

I like the idea of p2pool, however I'm not going to run my rig on p2pool just because I like the idea behind it. 
I'm not a religious person.  So I wish you all p2pool devotees good luck with it.

If someone knows how to make more money on p2pool than 1.5% pps, please post your p2pool/miner configuration.  I'd be willing to validate your results.


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June 03, 2012, 04:27:09 AM
 #2507

In 12 hours on p2pool, my 3.5Gh/s rig generated (to be paid when block is found) a whole 0.31 BTC.  Yesterday I switched to 50btc.com, the earnings were 1.15 BTC in the same 12 hour period.
50BTC appears to be a PPS pool; p2pool is PPLNS. You need to mine for 24 hours before your payout is up to its full amount.

BTC: 1KrakenLFEFg33A4f6xpwgv3UUoxrLPuGn
ChanceCoats123
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June 03, 2012, 05:46:53 AM
 #2508

The payout method between the two pools is kind of... well how do I put this... COMPLETELY different.

On P2pool (which uses Pay-per-last-n-shares method), you are paid for your respective shares (in the last 24 hours) ONLY when the pool finds a block.

On a pay-per-share pool, the pool owner eats the losses of any bad luck (hence the high(er) fees). This means that you get paid for every accepted share when it is sent.

While this gives a nice, consistent payout, there is never any chance you make extra money. When the pool has good luck, the pool operator pockets the extra cash, and the miners still only earn what they typically make per share. On a PPLNS pool, when there is good luck, the miners make proportionally more money. The flip side is that when bad luck comes around, PPS miners see no impact while PPLNS miners do.
Syke
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June 03, 2012, 07:42:19 AM
 #2509

p2pool seems to far too regularly get 12-24+ hr blocks.  When difficulty increases, that's going to get even longer.
Slush: 5-19 blocks/day @ 1300GH/s
P2pool: 2-5 blocks/day @ 200GH/s
Who wins? Where you can get more BTC?
My poor little 100-170MH/s makes 10x less in Slush than I take form p2pool.
I get 0,02 -0,04 /block in p2pool and about 0.0002/block in slush...

We just need pump hash rate a bit and block will come Smiley Just not everyone gets PPLNS idea...
You NEED mine 24/7 there! No jumping!

BTW: preparing additional node on free cloudy VPS in europe, it is leeching bitcoin blocks now Smiley If it will keep pool software running I`ll post address. No fancy thighs like p2poolmining, just plain simple node.

This is great deal for lazy/private miners: no registration, no need to run own bitcion client, just point miner using bitcoin address as user name and ready Smiley


Try 50btc.com (or btcguild or abcpool). 
I've given up on p2pool.  There is something seriously wrong with it (or I just got a really bad luck.  Variance is a bitch, I guess)

In 12 hours on p2pool, my 3.5Gh/s rig generated (to be paid when block is found) a whole 0.31 BTC.  Yesterday I switched to 50btc.com, the earnings were 1.15 BTC in the same 12 hour period.

Did you even read the message you quoted. Let me trim it down for you...

You NEED mine 24/7 there! No jumping!

In 12 hours on p2pool

See that? You jumped when you were specifically told not to jump. p2pool is not for jumpers.

Buy & Hold
mdude77
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June 03, 2012, 10:57:49 AM
 #2510

Try 50btc.com (or btcguild or abcpool). 
I've given up on p2pool.  There is something seriously wrong with it (or I just got a really bad luck.  Variance is a bitch, I guess)

In 12 hours on p2pool, my 3.5Gh/s rig generated (to be paid when block is found) a whole 0.31 BTC.  Yesterday I switched to 50btc.com, the earnings were 1.15 BTC in the same 12 hour period.

I like the idea of p2pool, however I'm not going to run my rig on p2pool just because I like the idea behind it. 
I'm not a religious person.  So I wish you all p2pool devotees good luck with it.

If someone knows how to make more money on p2pool than 1.5% pps, please post your p2pool/miner configuration.  I'd be willing to validate your results.

I assume you ran it for more than 12 hours.  I ran it for a few weeks, and reached the same conclusion as you. 

I'm happily mining on ozcoin.net now.  Free (donation requested) unless you want PPS.  And we're over 1.1 terahash/s for the last 24 hours now.  Yesterday was nice!!   Smiley  In the last 24 hours I got 3.57 btc after 1% donation with 5 gh/s.

Supposedly ozcoin averages about 750gh/s and a lot of GPUMax users have ozcoin as the backup pool.

M

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Red Emerald
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June 03, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
 #2511

Try 50btc.com (or btcguild or abcpool).  
I've given up on p2pool.  There is something seriously wrong with it (or I just got a really bad luck.  Variance is a bitch, I guess)

In 12 hours on p2pool, my 3.5Gh/s rig generated (to be paid when block is found) a whole 0.31 BTC.  Yesterday I switched to 50btc.com, the earnings were 1.15 BTC in the same 12 hour period.

I like the idea of p2pool, however I'm not going to run my rig on p2pool just because I like the idea behind it.  
I'm not a religious person.  So I wish you all p2pool devotees good luck with it.

If someone knows how to make more money on p2pool than 1.5% pps, please post your p2pool/miner configuration.  I'd be willing to validate your results.

I assume you ran it for more than 12 hours.  I ran it for a few weeks, and reached the same conclusion as you.  

I'm happily mining on ozcoin.net now.  Free (donation requested) unless you want PPS.  And we're over 1.1 terahash/s for the last 24 hours now.  Yesterday was nice!!   Smiley  In the last 24 hours I got 3.57 btc after 1% donation with 5 gh/s.

Supposedly ozcoin averages about 750gh/s and a lot of GPUMax users have ozcoin as the backup pool.

M
He says "12 hours" multiple times, so your assumption is wrong...

Long term, p2pool is only paying 90% of what is expected.  I don't know why this hasn't sunk in... Some people are saying p2pool pays more than PPS and they are wrong as clearly demonstrated by the luck chart.  Other people are saying that p2pool pays far less than PPS and they are also wrong as also clearly demonstrated by the luck chart.

Comparing a PPLNS pool to a PPS pool over a short period demonstrates a lack of understanding of the payout methods.

http://p2pool.info/luck

rav3n_pl
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June 03, 2012, 09:44:33 PM
 #2512

Where is some formula how luck chart is created?
I`m not sure that "Hashing performed vs blocks produced" is accurate.
Maybe is is very wrong because of jumpers? They add much power for short period of time and killing match?
It looks like we NEVER make less calculations than we need!

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June 03, 2012, 09:51:33 PM
 #2513

Where is some formula how luck chart is created?
I`m not sure that "Hashing performed vs blocks produced" is accurate.
I think that graph would better be called "Hashing performed based on shares found vs blocks produced" but why would this be inaccurate?

Quote
Maybe is is very wrong because of jumpers? They add much power for short period of time and killing match?
Hopping will not affect luck.  If p2pool's hash rate increases because of a new miner (hopper or not), then the estimated time to find a block will go down.  If they leave, it goes back up.

Quote
It looks like we NEVER make less calculations than we need!
I do not know what this means.

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June 03, 2012, 11:03:12 PM
 #2514

Where is some formula how luck chart is created?
I`m not sure that "Hashing performed vs blocks produced" is accurate.
Maybe is is very wrong because of jumpers? They add much power for short period of time and killing match?
It looks like we NEVER make less calculations than we need!

I have explained it in great detail at least twice in this thread.  Please search for the the answer.

I don't believe the luck calculations are wrong, and no one who has looked at it has found any errors. I have also compared the calculated luck to my actual earnings and they are consistent.  I believe we really have found only 90% of the blocks that a "perfectly neutral luck" pool would have over the past several months. 

I don't know if it is just bad luck or if there is something else going on (someone withholding block solutions, etc), but I don't think it is an error in how luck is being calculated or displayed.

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rav3n_pl
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June 03, 2012, 11:09:15 PM
 #2515

Red line is what we do, blue blocks is what we need. Line is always over blocks = we always do more than we need to find block.
Or I not understand it correctly?
I wish to get some chart that shows:
- difficulty of block
- shares sent to pool
- difficulty of counted shares
- time of finding block
It should give some insight and check that chart is properly. I just can`t believe that all pools are about 100% (and more!) and we are abut 90% all the time...
It is possible to collect that data somehow? For last moth or so?

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June 03, 2012, 11:52:41 PM
 #2516

Where is some formula how luck chart is created?
I`m not sure that "Hashing performed vs blocks produced" is accurate.
Maybe is is very wrong because of jumpers? They add much power for short period of time and killing match?
It looks like we NEVER make less calculations than we need!

I have explained it in great detail at least twice in this thread.  Please search for the the answer.

I don't believe the luck calculations are wrong, and no one who has looked at it has found any errors. I have also compared the calculated luck to my actual earnings and they are consistent.  I believe we really have found only 90% of the blocks that a "perfectly neutral luck" pool would have over the past several months. 

I don't know if it is just bad luck or if there is something else going on (someone withholding block solutions, etc), but I don't think it is an error in how luck is being calculated or displayed.
Are all shares being treated as the same difficulty?  I'm pretty sure some of the bigger miners had voluntarily raised their difficulty. Would that change the calculation?

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June 04, 2012, 01:06:51 AM
 #2517

It shouldn't matter as when you ask for a higher difficulty it counts as a multiple of regular shares. I asked for 1500 difficulty shares which would give me credit for 3-4 shares when i Found "one" share.
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June 04, 2012, 07:37:04 AM
 #2518

...
It is possible to collect that data somehow? For last moth or so?
P2Pool doesn't keep a share-chain history (as I also mentioned on the last page)
You would need to get that information out of the p2pool log (assuming it is available there) and make sure your log is 100% complete for the time range you are interested in.

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June 04, 2012, 12:16:20 PM
 #2519


The SANE_TARGET_RANGE is what limits the range of served shares.  The max/min is the same number (which equates to diff 1). You would need to edit this range to allow for higher difficulty shares.


Changing this (and only this) makes the p2pool node reject lower difficulty work submissions, but cgminer on the other side still submits all diff=1 solutions found. Shouldn't the p2pool node be requesting higher diff shares, or is that being ignored by cgminer?
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June 04, 2012, 12:27:37 PM
 #2520

20hrs block and orphaned... just shoot me...

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