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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2035612 times)
Smoovious
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July 07, 2012, 11:19:34 AM
 #2901

How's this possible? 

2012-07-07 07:02:28.254000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 639.252514 Total block value: 63.655207 BTC including 219 transactions

I've never seen blocks above 51 btc, including transactions.  If p2pool doing something to make up for the 20 hours we've been without a block?

M
No, all rewards at the current time are 50btc... anything over that, is including transaction fees...

My guess, is there are a LOT of small inputs in those 219 transactions, totalling over 13 btc worth of fees...

I suppose there could be someone out there intentionally adding on a much higher than required fee... nothing stopping people from doing so, but unlikely.

-- Smoov
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July 07, 2012, 11:20:08 AM
 #2902

How's this possible? 

2012-07-07 07:02:28.254000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 639.252514 Total block value: 63.655207 BTC including 219 transactions

I've never seen blocks above 51 btc, including transactions.  If p2pool doing something to make up for the 20 hours we've been without a block?

M

Lots of blocks have been worth more than 51 btc, unless I'm reading this chart wrong:

http://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees

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July 07, 2012, 11:27:48 AM
 #2903

How's this possible? 

2012-07-07 07:02:28.254000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 639.252514 Total block value: 63.655207 BTC including 219 transactions

I've never seen blocks above 51 btc, including transactions.  If p2pool doing something to make up for the 20 hours we've been without a block?

M

Lots of blocks have been worth more than 51 btc, unless I'm reading this chart wrong:

http://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees
This is per day fees, not per block.
If you run p2pool long enough w/o deleting log file you can grep that information Smiley
Most are very close to 50, some about 51, more are very rare.
When mining price will down and where will be more transactions all that fees will pump up p2pool because all pools are taking fee away + get % from base value....

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July 07, 2012, 11:32:10 AM
 #2904

How's this possible? 

2012-07-07 07:02:28.254000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 639.252514 Total block value: 63.655207 BTC including 219 transactions

I've never seen blocks above 51 btc, including transactions.  If p2pool doing something to make up for the 20 hours we've been without a block?

M

Lots of blocks have been worth more than 51 btc, unless I'm reading this chart wrong:

http://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees
This is per day fees, not per block.
If you run p2pool long enough w/o deleting log file you can grep that information Smiley
Most are very close to 50, some about 51, more are very rare.
When mining price will down and where will be more transactions all that fees will pump up p2pool because all pools are taking fee away + get % from base value....

So p2pool was doing it?  Every block I saw on the console was in that range.  We just got a block (finally!), and now it's back down to what I am used to:

2012-07-07 07:28:57.648000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 655.441211 Total block value: 50.064550 BTC including 140 transactions

M

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July 07, 2012, 11:37:41 AM
 #2905

How's this possible?  

2012-07-07 07:02:28.254000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 639.252514 Total block value: 63.655207 BTC including 219 transactions

I've never seen blocks above 51 btc, including transactions.  If p2pool doing something to make up for the 20 hours we've been without a block?

M

Lots of blocks have been worth more than 51 btc, unless I'm reading this chart wrong:

http://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees
This is per day fees, not per block.
If you run p2pool long enough w/o deleting log file you can grep that information Smiley
Most are very close to 50, some about 51, more are very rare.
When mining price will down and where will be more transactions all that fees will pump up p2pool because all pools are taking fee away + get % from base value....

So p2pool was doing it?  Every block I saw on the console was in that range.  We just got a block (finally!), and now it's back down to what I am used to:

2012-07-07 07:28:57.648000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 655.441211 Total block value: 50.064550 BTC including 140 transactions

M
rav3n was referring to the blockchain.info link that he was replying to, showing per-day stats.

What you see on the console, reflects the pending transactions your node knows about, that may be included in the next block _you_ find. They might not all make it into the block, but it gives you an idea of what it could potentially be worth.

Over the past few minutes I've seen my # of transactions fluctuate between 50 and 250, and my block value staying within 50 and 51.5 range, so, perhaps you know about a high-fee transaction waiting to go in, or your cache is a little messed up.

edit: Sharky in the channel, just said the last block we found was good, and that it included 13.71570659 BTC in fees. I haven't confirmed it, but you should see your total block value drop back down to the typical range any time now.

-- Smoov
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July 07, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
 #2906


Lots of blocks have been worth more than 51 btc, unless I'm reading this chart wrong:

http://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees
This is per day fees, not per block.


I'm reading this chart wrong.

Derp.

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July 07, 2012, 11:47:38 AM
 #2907

So p2pool was doing it?  Every block I saw on the console was in that range.  We just got a block (finally!), and now it's back down to what I am used to:

2012-07-07 07:28:57.648000 New work for worker! Difficulty: 0.999985 Share difficulty: 655.441211 Total block value: 50.064550 BTC including 140 transactions

M
rav3n was referring to the blockchain.info link that he was replying to, showing per-day stats.

What you see on the console, reflects the pending transactions your node knows about, that may be included in the next block _you_ find. They might not all make it into the block, but it gives you an idea of what it could potentially be worth.

Over the past few minutes I've seen my # of transactions fluctuate between 50 and 250, and my block value staying within 50 and 51.5 range, so, perhaps you know about a high-fee transaction waiting to go in, or your cache is a little messed up.


-- Smoov

According to my math, my ~5 g/h is worth about .8 to .9 btc per block (assuming 50btc/block).  That's what it leveled out to yesterday after 24 hours of running.  30 minutes ago when I saw EVERY block in the low 60btc, my share went up 1.2.  And when we found the last block, I got a payout of 1.22.  Now every block is back down where I've always seen it (before the 60 incident), between 50 and 51, and my share is slowly decreasing, currently down to 0.9684.

I doubt my p2pool node is special, but unless I'm misreading the replies, I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why the blocks were in the 60s, then we found a block, now it's back down between 50-51.  

M

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Smoovious
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July 07, 2012, 12:10:34 PM
 #2908

According to my math, my ~5 g/h is worth about .8 to .9 btc per block (assuming 50btc/block).  That's what it leveled out to yesterday after 24 hours of running.  30 minutes ago when I saw EVERY block in the low 60btc, my share went up 1.2.  And when we found the last block, I got a payout of 1.22.  Now every block is back down where I've always seen it (before the 60 incident), between 50 and 51, and my share is slowly decreasing, currently down to 0.9684.

I doubt my p2pool node is special, but unless I'm misreading the replies, I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why the blocks were in the 60s, then we found a block, now it's back down between 50-51.
It went back down because those transactions are no longer pending.

A significant number of those transactions were from satoshi-dice (I looked through the block a bit ago) which many pools have begun to either ignore, or throttle how many they will include.

In any event, one of us found the block, and we got all those fees, which is what bumped up your payout.

Now those transactions are no longer pending, and are no longer included in your next block value estimate.

-- Smoov
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July 07, 2012, 12:22:42 PM
 #2909

According to my math, my ~5 g/h is worth about .8 to .9 btc per block (assuming 50btc/block).  That's what it leveled out to yesterday after 24 hours of running.  30 minutes ago when I saw EVERY block in the low 60btc, my share went up 1.2.  And when we found the last block, I got a payout of 1.22.  Now every block is back down where I've always seen it (before the 60 incident), between 50 and 51, and my share is slowly decreasing, currently down to 0.9684.

I doubt my p2pool node is special, but unless I'm misreading the replies, I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why the blocks were in the 60s, then we found a block, now it's back down between 50-51.
It went back down because those transactions are no longer pending.

A significant number of those transactions were from satoshi-dice (I looked through the block a bit ago) which many pools have begun to either ignore, or throttle how many they will include.

In any event, one of us found the block, and we got all those fees, which is what bumped up your payout.

Now those transactions are no longer pending, and are no longer included in your next block value estimate.

-- Smoov

That makes sense.  Basically what you're saying is p2pool is more likely to process satoshi-dice transactions, so if the bits align right, p2pool users get a lot of transactions in their block?

M

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July 07, 2012, 12:28:19 PM
 #2910

That makes sense.  Basically what you're saying is p2pool is more likely to process satoshi-dice transactions, so if the bits align right, p2pool users get a lot of transactions in their block?
Well, I don't know if p2pool distributes the transactions themselves or not, so this is just a guess... but I believe it depends on your bitcoind, and what it is set up to accept or reject.

I believe that your p2pool instance, is reporting the transactions your bitcoind knows about, and will include in the solved block.

-- Smoov


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July 07, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
 #2911

That makes sense.  Basically what you're saying is p2pool is more likely to process satoshi-dice transactions, so if the bits align right, p2pool users get a lot of transactions in their block?
Well, I don't know if p2pool distributes the transactions themselves or not, so this is just a guess... but I believe it depends on your bitcoind, and what it is set up to accept or reject.

I believe that your p2pool instance, is reporting the transactions your bitcoind knows about, and will include in the solved block.

-- Smoov

So... that implies that bitcoind is providing the work, and all the connections in p2pool (I have 32 atm) are for distributing what's found?  I think p2pool can feed bitcoind as well, which means overall the more connections on bitcoind and p2pool the better.

Yes?

M

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July 07, 2012, 01:14:19 PM
 #2912

No. Smiley
P2pool is getting work form bitcoind. Each node do the same, but not all the nodes have exact same work because not all txes are in all places of bitcoin network at same time.
So if your node will found a block it will be closed in way your bitcoind see it. Then your "block found" and your closing tx is spread across p2pool nodes.
So it IS possible, that you see block value 61 and I see same block @ 55 and s1 else only 50.

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July 07, 2012, 01:32:29 PM
 #2913

No. Smiley
P2pool is getting work form bitcoind. Each node do the same, but not all the nodes have exact same work because not all txes are in all places of bitcoin network at same time.
So if your node will found a block it will be closed in way your bitcoind see it. Then your "block found" and your closing tx is spread across p2pool nodes.
So it IS possible, that you see block value 61 and I see same block @ 55 and s1 else only 50.

Good info, thanks.

What still puzzles me a little is why I consistently saw blocks in the low 60s.  It wasn't a one time deal, it stayed that one until we found a block, then it dropped.  And it was that way long enough for my payout to increase from .9 to 1.2, and as we know, the payout doesn't change rapidly.  I don't know how long it takes this info to propagate across the network.  That implies there's something wrong with my logic, or propagation is pretty slow.

BTW, I'm still regularly getting dupe submission messages.  I just saw this (biggest one I've seen so far):

2012-07-07 09:29:47.581000 > Worker q6600 @ 127.0.0.1 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:47.897000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:49.355000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:50.915000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:51.948000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!

M

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July 07, 2012, 01:41:39 PM
 #2914

What still puzzles me a little is why I consistently saw blocks in the low 60s.  It wasn't a one time deal, it stayed that one until we found a block, then it dropped.  And it was that way long enough for my payout to increase from .9 to 1.2, and as we know, the payout doesn't change rapidly.  I don't know how long it takes this info to propagate across the network.  That implies there's something wrong with my logic, or propagation is pretty slow.
Because other pools that found blocks, either weren't seeing the Tx's your bitcoind was seeing, or were rejecting them.

They could have been rejecting them based on their priority rating, fee amount, or simply the fact that many of them were Satoshi-Dice Tx's. Some people mining, reject all Tx's too.

If a Tx hasn't been included in a block, it stays available until someone includes it.

This is likely why you kept seeing the amount you were for as long as you were.

-- Smoov
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July 07, 2012, 02:06:19 PM
 #2915

That block had a high reward because of these three transactions:

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11490303/e287eb27bb543a82ce9bcad780583de9f7da4e2e1abef55395a97c931f6aa4cb
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11490313/34b90a85b7e625f0a60ff1e3b3bdfd735d79393930e8515f9d8188dd72f638b9
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11490553/e35818bec399da75796e7ff8235cf1fb2bfb2897f161dc4d1d17b2a8ef79bed2

The first has a 7.5 BTC fee attached, the second has a 3.1 BTC fee attached, and the third has a 2.9 BTC fee attached.

So 13.5 BTC fees between them and resulted in the block being worth 50 + 13.5 + some other small fees.

You p2pool console showed a 60+ BTC block reward for as long as these three transactions were sitting pending.  No other pool claimed them for some reason and when we eventually found a block, they were included in our block and we got the reward. As soon as we included them in a block, the estimated block reward in your p2pool console dropped back down to the normal 50ish BTC.

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July 07, 2012, 09:51:27 PM
 #2916

I posted a script in this thread that used git to autoupdate p2pool. Including it in the cron jobs of p2pcoin (and any Linux-based install) might be worth it.

For it to work, you must have :
- a p2pool checkout with git in a directory from which p2pool will be run,
- git...
- screen to run p2pool

If anyone's interested and can't find it I'll dig it up.

Yeah, if you can dig that up, let me know.  I'll include it in p2pcoin.
Here it is :
http://pastie.org/4166525

Everything should be self explanatory for anyone familiar with bash scripts and p2pool. It's configured for my needs but should easily be adapted. If you have any question when customizing it for p2pcoin I'd be happy to help.
Based on this script I made combination of 2 scripts that can be used at startup and in cron (every day/week) to keep p2pool updated.

First one os one-liner that atrually starts p2pool. This way you can easily edit pool options. Lets name it p2p.sh, put it in ~/ and make executable.
Code:
#!/bin/bash
screen -U -d -m python ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py --irc-announce --merged http://nmcu:nmcp@127.0.0.1:8336/
Just add/remove merged mining in way you have it. All startup options on wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool#Option_Reference

Second script is checking for p2pool update and restart p2pool if need. If p2pool is not started (ie at boot) it starts it:
Code:
#!/bin/bash
EXISTINGPID=`pgrep -f run_p2pool`

cd ~/p2pool
echo "Checking for P2pool updates..."
if git pull | grep -q 'Already up-to-date'; then
    echo "P2pool is up to date."
    if [[ -z "$EXISTINGPID" ]]; then
        echo "Starting P2pool..."
        ~/p2p.sh
    fi
else
    echo "P2pool updated, starting..."
    ~/p2p.sh
    if [[ ! -z "$EXISTINGPID" ]]; then
        echo "Waiting for new p2pool to be ready..."
        sleep 90
        echo "Killing old p2pool."
        kill $EXISTINGPID
    fi
fi
I assume that p2pool is git cloned into ~/p2pool, if not edit proper line.

To avoid loss of hash power on pool restart (sometimes it might be about minute gap) remember to have backup pool in miner. It might be one of public: http://nodes.p2pmine.com/
Beauty of p2pool is, that you can mine at any node using own payout address and you get paid form sum of your shares Smiley

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July 08, 2012, 10:44:10 AM
 #2917

No. Smiley
P2pool is getting work form bitcoind. Each node do the same, but not all the nodes have exact same work because not all txes are in all places of bitcoin network at same time.
So if your node will found a block it will be closed in way your bitcoind see it. Then your "block found" and your closing tx is spread across p2pool nodes.
So it IS possible, that you see block value 61 and I see same block @ 55 and s1 else only 50.

Good info, thanks.

What still puzzles me a little is why I consistently saw blocks in the low 60s.  It wasn't a one time deal, it stayed that one until we found a block, then it dropped.  And it was that way long enough for my payout to increase from .9 to 1.2, and as we know, the payout doesn't change rapidly.  I don't know how long it takes this info to propagate across the network.  That implies there's something wrong with my logic, or propagation is pretty slow.

BTW, I'm still regularly getting dupe submission messages.  I just saw this (biggest one I've seen so far):

2012-07-07 09:29:47.581000 > Worker q6600 @ 127.0.0.1 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:47.897000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:49.355000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:50.915000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:51.948000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!

M

I have this problem too and I've been doing some counting. The number as of now: accepted:29732 duplicates:2330 rejected:426. That is 7-8% duplicate shares of the total and the actual submitted good shares are only 91%.

I have also confirmed that the same hashes shows up in cgminer's sharelog and they are never submitted more than once. (EDIT: not true; occasionally the same hash is subitted three times)

Since the set contaning the submitted hashes is local to the got_response closure it seems to me that the duplicate check only affects submitted shares from the same get_work. Am I correct to conclude that this means that the problem is with cgminer?

Code:
       
    def get_work(self, pubkey_hash, desired_share_target, desired_pseudoshare_target):

        /.../

        received_header_hashes = set()

        def got_response(header, request):

            /.../

            elif header_hash in received_header_hashes:
                print >>sys.stderr, 'Worker %s @ %s submitted share %064x more than once!' % (request.getUser(), request.getClientIP(), header_hash)
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July 08, 2012, 12:12:59 PM
 #2918

BTW, I'm still regularly getting dupe submission messages.  I just saw this (biggest one I've seen so far):

2012-07-07 09:29:47.581000 > Worker q6600 @ 127.0.0.1 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:47.897000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:49.355000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:50.915000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!
2012-07-07 09:29:51.948000 > Worker miner1 @ 192.168.0.110 submitted share more than once!

M

I have this problem too and I've been doing some counting. The number as of now: accepted:29732 duplicates:2330 rejected:426. That is 7-8% duplicate shares of the total and the actual submitted good shares are only 91%.

I have also confirmed that the same hashes shows up in cgminer's sharelog and they are never submitted more than once. (EDIT: not true; occasionally the same hash is subitted three times)

Since the set contaning the submitted hashes is local to the got_response closure it seems to me that the duplicate check only affects submitted shares from the same get_work. Am I correct to conclude that this means that the problem is with cgminer?

I think the problem is in p2pool, because I two of my miners are cgminer, one is phoenix, and I get dupes on all 3.

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tucenaber
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July 08, 2012, 12:15:33 PM
 #2919

I guess you are right. Then my only idea is the caching of work in WorkerInterface. Can someone shed some light on that?
forrestv
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July 08, 2012, 01:23:12 PM
 #2920

I guess you are right. Then my only idea is the caching of work in WorkerInterface. Can someone shed some light on that?

The work caching preserves the merkle root, but advances the timestamp by 12 seconds every time. It may be possible that CGminer is advancing the timestamp more than that (ignoring the X-Roll-NTime header, which is set to "expire=10"), and so redoing work.

EDIT: I'm going to add a check to P2Pool that warns about improperly rolled work. If anyone _ever_ sees this warning, we'll know that something is broken.

On the other hand, maybe CGminer retries submitting work before the original work submit is finished if it's slow? That would mean that there's no work actually being lost. I should really just look at the code...

I use CGminer and almost never see this message. Is there anything special about the mining rigs that this happens to? How many GPUs do they have?

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