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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2587113 times)
Aseras
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June 16, 2012, 02:29:42 AM
 #2701

I really hate to say it, but I'm not going to give it much longer.

Last couple of days have been pretty good for p2pool I think.

Toby.

And.... you killed it.
OMFG.... not AGAIN!

Lol. Happens everytime.

It's like breaking a mirror 7 more days of bad luck :p
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June 16, 2012, 04:33:23 AM
 #2702

Is there any hope that the new code changes will get the long term luck above 90%?  I really like the idea of p2pool, but getting effectively 90% PPS is disappointing. I don't think the pay cut is worth it until the large pools actually start disrupting the network and it seems like claims of Deepbit's evil intentions and such are purely FUD (at least at this point in time).
Following the luck charts will do nothing but increase the confusion when trying to determine the success of p2pool. If you were to base the success of p2pool by the luck charts, you would develop the opinion that p2pool is under-performing. This assumption can be proven invalid by calculating the current equivalent PPS payout and comparing it to the expected value from any Bitcoin calculator that calculates PPS. The equivalent PPS value for P2pool has been above the expected PPS, based on Bitcoins generated per Gigahash, by some 5%-15%. You can say p2pool is doing better than expected and so the luck is good.

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June 16, 2012, 04:36:54 AM
 #2703

Is there any hope that the new code changes will get the long term luck above 90%?  I really like the idea of p2pool, but getting effectively 90% PPS is disappointing. I don't think the pay cut is worth it until the large pools actually start disrupting the network and it seems like claims of Deepbit's evil intentions and such are purely FUD (at least at this point in time).
Following the luck charts will do nothing but increase the confusion when trying to determine the success of p2pool. If you were to base the success of p2pool by the luck charts, you would develop the opinion that p2pool is under-performing. This assumption can be proven invalid by calculating the current equivalent PPS payout and comparing it to the expected value from any Bitcoin calculator that calculates PPS. The equivalent PPS value for P2pool has been above the expected PPS, based on Bitcoins generated per Gigahash, by some 5%-15%. You can say p2pool is doing better than expected and so the luck is good.

If the "luck" charts based on round length show greater than expected rounds lengths, and the pool payout is also greater than expected, then one of these is incorrect. You can't have both.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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kano
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June 16, 2012, 11:35:10 AM
 #2704

The simple answer is, the average number of shares per block difficulty is above expected.
That's all that matters in such calculations.

Hopefully this will or has gone down.

Yes you can add fees into the equation when comparing specific pools, but no there is no general 'fee' calculation for all pools of any type.
You need to state which pool and what exactly the fees are.
(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days Here on Bitcointalk: Forum
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June 16, 2012, 12:35:32 PM
 #2705

(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

DeepBit PPS charges 10% and BTCGuild charges 8%. They're the highest I know of.

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June 16, 2012, 02:09:13 PM
 #2706

(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

DeepBit PPS charges 10% and BTCGuild charges 8%. They're the highest I know of.
An they taking transaction fees to, it is 0.2-0.8 btc now each block.

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June 16, 2012, 03:21:22 PM
 #2707

(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

DeepBit PPS charges 10% and BTCGuild charges 8%. They're the highest I know of.
An they taking transaction fees to, it is 0.2-0.8 btc now each block.
Well, the PPS pools also take all the risk on the variance/luck too. Dunno about DeepBit, but last I heard, BTCGuild took a big loss during the last cycle, so they lost money paying out all the shares, so kinda gotta take that into account too.

-- Smoov
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June 16, 2012, 06:52:22 PM
 #2708

(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

DeepBit PPS charges 10% and BTCGuild charges 8%. They're the highest I know of.
An they taking transaction fees to, it is 0.2-0.8 btc now each block.
Well, the PPS pools also take all the risk on the variance/luck too. Dunno about DeepBit, but last I heard, BTCGuild took a big loss during the last cycle, so they lost money paying out all the shares, so kinda gotta take that into account too.

-- Smoov

Thats why I get more form p2pool than any pps Smiley Bigger cake to cut Smiley

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June 16, 2012, 07:48:32 PM
 #2709

Thats why I get more form p2pool than any pps Smiley Bigger cake to cut Smiley

I don't see how, an extra ~.25 per block in tranactions fee's doesn't compensate for the bad luck. I've made much more mining at a MtRed (0% Fee PPS) then I ever did mining at p2pool.
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June 16, 2012, 08:36:36 PM
 #2710

Thats why I get more form p2pool than any pps Smiley Bigger cake to cut Smiley

I don't see how, an extra ~.25 per block in tranactions fee's doesn't compensate for the bad luck. I've made much more mining at a MtRed (0% Fee PPS) then I ever did mining at p2pool.
Does MtRed ever say what they made, compared to what they paid out?

That's the thing about PPS... it can be good for the miner, but if the pool operator has a long enough string of bad luck, then he's screwed. The pool operator is gambling against the long-term odds.

-- Smoov
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June 16, 2012, 10:10:01 PM
 #2711

Does MtRed ever say what they made, compared to what they paid out?

That's the thing about PPS... it can be good for the miner, but if the pool operator has a long enough string of bad luck, then he's screwed. The pool operator is gambling against the long-term odds.

-- Smoov


True, that's a very big downside to PPS.
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June 17, 2012, 12:15:39 AM
 #2712

(though is there any pool that charges 10%?)

DeepBit PPS charges 10% and BTCGuild charges 8%. They're the highest I know of.

BTCGuild is 5%

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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June 17, 2012, 12:18:40 AM
 #2713

Does MtRed ever say what they made, compared to what they paid out?

That's the thing about PPS... it can be good for the miner, but if the pool operator has a long enough string of bad luck, then he's screwed. The pool operator is gambling against the long-term odds.

-- Smoov


BTCGuild recently commented on this.

Some months he makes money some he loses.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Smoovious
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June 17, 2012, 12:21:52 AM
 #2714

Does MtRed ever say what they made, compared to what they paid out?

That's the thing about PPS... it can be good for the miner, but if the pool operator has a long enough string of bad luck, then he's screwed. The pool operator is gambling against the long-term odds.

-- Smoov


BTCGuild recently commented on this.

Some months he makes money some he loses.
Yeah, that was the thread I was referring to in a previous post. On this one tho, I was asking about MtRed's. To compare against BTCGuild's. I only use BTCGuild as a backup now.

-- Smoov
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June 17, 2012, 12:24:10 AM
 #2715

Q: how exactly is calculated expected time to block when block found? Current pool hash rate or some average of time that block was mined?
I`m still not sure that our luck chart is good... If we founding blocks "in time" I`m gettin much more than from any pps pool... For me luck is much higher than 90% Smiley

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June 17, 2012, 01:03:12 AM
 #2716

Q: how exactly is calculated expected time to block when block found? Current pool hash rate or some average of time that block was mined?
I`m still not sure that our luck chart is good... If we founding blocks "in time" I`m gettin much more than from any pps pool... For me luck is much higher than 90% Smiley

What's your average daily earnings and average hashrate for the current difficulty period? If you can tell me that, I'll tell you whether or not you're getting more or less than expected.

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rav3n_pl
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June 17, 2012, 01:18:13 AM
 #2717

Q: how exactly is calculated expected time to block when block found? Current pool hash rate or some average of time that block was mined?
I`m still not sure that our luck chart is good... If we founding blocks "in time" I`m gettin much more than from any pps pool... For me luck is much higher than 90% Smiley

What's your average daily earnings and average hashrate for the current difficulty period? If you can tell me that, I'll tell you whether or not you're getting more or less than expected.
It is my desktop, so avg is about 140MH/s.
I`m taking 0.025 per block or more (even 0.05) from P2pool.
I was mining on 2 pps pools and get about 0.07-0.075 BTC/day.
For me P2pool is best Smiley

1Rav3nkMayCijuhzcYemMiPYsvcaiwHni  Bitcoin stuff on my OneDrive
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June 17, 2012, 01:23:20 AM
 #2718

Q: how exactly is calculated expected time to block when block found? Current pool hash rate or some average of time that block was mined?
I`m still not sure that our luck chart is good... If we founding blocks "in time" I`m gettin much more than from any pps pool... For me luck is much higher than 90% Smiley

What's your average daily earnings and average hashrate for the current difficulty period? If you can tell me that, I'll tell you whether or not you're getting more or less than expected.
It is my desktop, so avg is about 140MH/s.
I`m taking 0.025 per block or more (even 0.05) from P2pool.
I was mining on 2 pps pools and get about 0.07-0.075 BTC/day.
For me P2pool is best Smiley

What are your average daily earnings for the current diff period?

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June 17, 2012, 04:46:14 AM
Last edit: June 18, 2012, 05:41:39 AM by forrestv
 #2719

P2Pool release 3.0 tag: 3.0 hash: a4cde222d397b47ae5646ca74a8036025d745df8

EDIT: Outdated, go to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg971005#msg971005

Changes:
* P2Pool will "skip ahead" to building on blocks not yet processed by the local bitcoind based on block headers received from P2Pool peers. This should significantly reduce the number of orphaned blocks we have if everyone upgrades.
* Latency/high CPU usage caused by requesting shares from old nodes is fixed by now not downloading shares more than a day old

This change increments the share version to 3, so once 50% of people upgrade, the rest will be notified by messages on their P2Pool console. So, please upgrade! Note that this isn't a hard fork of the P2Pool chain, so old nodes will continue to work, only spamming the upgrade messages.

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June 17, 2012, 04:48:34 AM
 #2720

My node in my sig is upgraded to 3.0

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