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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2032503 times)
joemde
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August 09, 2012, 01:41:37 PM
 #3161

I know there was a discussion a while back that BFL gear would essentially *never* be compatible with p2pool, is that still the case?

As more and more pools implement fees, p2pool becomes more enticing for all of my rigs, but it seems BFL will never be possible as Butterflylabs won't get their asses in gear.

Is it still the case that BFL singles are not p2pool compatible? I have 6 on order and they should arrive in <3 weeks. I really like P2Pool and would like to add the BFL singles to my hashing here.

If they aren't compatible (produce too many stales) what pool would you guys put there hash power in to? I have a BTC guild account setup but was looking at MtRed for lower fees. Any suggestions/discussion would be welcome.

I didn't follow the BFL-p2pool thingie..
Would maybe one of the "public" p2pool "pool" node work?
Those where your diff1 shares are used for calculating payout?

Would there be a loss? If yes, would the miner or the nodeoperator suck it?

Ente

From what I understand the incompatibility with BFL singles is how it processes work. Apparently they only process large chunks of data before returning a result to the miner software. This again apparently (because I don't know only parroting what I read) results in ~5 second response time with completed work from a BFL single. That would result in a very high stale rate on P2Pool.

If anyone has 1st hand information please chime in.
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rav3n_pl
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August 09, 2012, 01:53:44 PM
 #3162

For all what I read that disability to drop work and send share when found is real problem in BFL soft.
It just make full nonce and rerutn all shares found. Because it takes some time (about 5sec) most of work is trhashed on p2pool (about 10sec longpool).
Only 2 major changes in current BFL soft/hardware would make it possible to work on p2pool:
- return share when found (not when finish nonce)
- drop/get work on longpool (not when finish nonce lol)

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kano
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August 09, 2012, 02:14:24 PM
 #3163

I wonder when was the last time I posted this in here Smiley

Anyway, with BFL, you send work to it and wait ~5s for an answer.
If you abort the work, before the ~5s is up, it doesn't tell you anything it has already done.

Thus there are 2 options:
1) abort work each LP (lose on average 1/2 share per LP)
2) wait for work to finish each LP (lose on average 1 share per LP)

If you abort, you are, of course, aborting a large % of your work since LP is 10s
If you wait, you will end up with invalid shares so that's twice as much wasted work.

So ... nothing you can do about it ... don't mine on p2pool with BFL Singles or MiniRigs
(MiniRigs only lose ~half as much work since they are a bit less than 2 times as fast per card vs a Single)

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twmz
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August 09, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
 #3164

So ... nothing you can do about it ... don't mine on p2pool with BFL Singles or MiniRigs
(MiniRigs only lose ~half as much work since they are a bit less than 2 times as fast per card vs a Single)

My understanding is that BFL added the ability to tell a MiniRig to search less than the entire nonce range (and so you can dramatically reduce stales), so it should be possible to use it on p2pool if you have a miner that implements that feature.  The assumption is that the Single SCs will also have that firmware feature when they come out.

So in theory it is just the normal Singles that are unusable.

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kano
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August 09, 2012, 02:41:42 PM
 #3165

So ... nothing you can do about it ... don't mine on p2pool with BFL Singles or MiniRigs
(MiniRigs only lose ~half as much work since they are a bit less than 2 times as fast per card vs a Single)

My understanding is that BFL added the ability to tell a MiniRig to search less than the entire nonce range (and so you can dramatically reduce stales), so it should be possible to use it on p2pool if you have a miner that implements that feature.  The assumption is that the Single SCs will also have that firmware feature when they come out.

So in theory it is just the normal Singles that are unusable.
In theory ...

cgminer also tries to do nonce-range processing on the minirig
I don't know anyone who actually has seen that working on a minirig

However, the code intercepts when that is not working, and switches out of nonce-range processing ... since there have been cases of it not working ... but no idea if anyone does actually have it working in their minirig

I know for a fact early minirigs were send out without nonce-range working, but no idea if they have actually got it working yet.

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August 09, 2012, 02:42:43 PM
 #3166

So ... nothing you can do about it ... don't mine on p2pool with BFL Singles or MiniRigs
(MiniRigs only lose ~half as much work since they are a bit less than 2 times as fast per card vs a Single)

My understanding is that BFL added the ability to tell a MiniRig to search less than the entire nonce range (and so you can dramatically reduce stales), so it should be possible to use it on p2pool if you have a miner that implements that feature.  The assumption is that the Single SCs will also have that firmware feature when they come out.

So in theory it is just the normal Singles that are unusable.
That's correct, but you need to use this option with cgminer to use it:
--bfl-range         Use nonce range on bitforce devices if supported
It only works on minirigs, and in fact the first few minirigs didn't support it properly.

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Krak
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August 09, 2012, 04:53:02 PM
 #3167

I didn't follow the BFL-p2pool thingie..
Would maybe one of the "public" p2pool "pool" node work?
Those where your diff1 shares are used for calculating payout?

Would there be a loss? If yes, would the miner or the nodeoperator suck it?

Ente
There aren't any pools like this anymore; P2PMining got hacked and is no longer running.

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mdude77
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August 09, 2012, 11:26:10 PM
 #3168

I didn't follow the BFL-p2pool thingie..
Would maybe one of the "public" p2pool "pool" node work?
Those where your diff1 shares are used for calculating payout?

Would there be a loss? If yes, would the miner or the nodeoperator suck it?

Ente
There aren't any pools like this anymore; P2PMining got hacked and is no longer running.

Aren't there other public nodes?

Also, would changing the difficulty from p2pool help?

M

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Krak
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August 09, 2012, 11:49:16 PM
 #3169

Aren't there other public nodes?

Also, would changing the difficulty from p2pool help?

M
There's other public nodes, but they pay you the same as if you were running your own node (based on how many higher difficulty shares you find). I don't think changing the difficulty would do anything to help the BFL issue.

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twmz
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August 09, 2012, 11:50:45 PM
 #3170

Aren't there other public nodes?

Yes

Also, would changing the difficulty from p2pool help?

No.  The issue is the frequency of LPs.  The pseudo share difficulty and the share difficulty (i.e. when people with lots of hash power volunteer for higher difficulty shares) is irrelevant since all that matters is that LPs come every 10 seconds and so BFL Singles will spend a significant amount of time working on stale work.

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August 09, 2012, 11:55:41 PM
 #3171

I still don't understand what is a nonce

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August 10, 2012, 12:09:32 AM
 #3172

DAMN, too bad we didn't get this block...



http://blockchain.info/block-index/259429/00000000000004b58ac8327006d3076cb4c200fffb899b4a710af542dc826b03

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zvs
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August 10, 2012, 12:20:01 AM
 #3173

yah, it looked like someone made a mistake.  29.7 transaction fee on 30 bitcoin transfer or something

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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August 10, 2012, 12:24:32 AM
 #3174

yah, it looked like someone made a mistake.  29.7 transaction fee on 30 bitcoin transfer or something

maybe someone purposefully donated to the next block reward finder

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tiberiandusk
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August 10, 2012, 12:30:23 AM
 #3175

When merged mining will it say anything about it in the P2Pool window? I think I have it working but I don't see anything telling me.

Edit

Nevermind, I see it's getting new merged work. Was going by too fast for me to see it before.

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Ente
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August 10, 2012, 08:25:55 AM
 #3176

When merged mining will it say anything about it in the P2Pool window? I think I have it working but I don't see anything telling me.

Edit

Nevermind, I see it's getting new merged work. Was going by too fast for me to see it before.

When you tell p2pool to merge-mine with the according flag, and you see no messages in the p2pool window, everything should be fine. At least thats how I remember how it was when I mergemined.
I checked back often with the other clients with "~/nmc/bitcoind -info" or the like to see if coins were added and the alt chain was up-to-date, but actually it all was working all the time.
Except geistgeld was slowing down everything, but thats an entirely different, now outdated story.

Ente
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August 10, 2012, 10:14:12 AM
 #3177

Someone, or a bunch of someones, threw on a bunch of hash power.  We're at the highest we've been in ages.. 443g/h atm.

Now if we can just get by this 30 hour block.  I'm curious if the extra power will help or if we still have scaling issues.

M

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August 10, 2012, 12:08:23 PM
 #3178

Someone, or a bunch of someones, threw on a bunch of hash power.  We're at the highest we've been in ages.. 443g/h atm.

Now if we can just get by this 30 hour block.  I'm curious if the extra power will help or if we still have scaling issues.

M

That someone it's me, with 120GH/s, and I have 120GH/s more to add, if everythings works well.
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August 10, 2012, 12:39:32 PM
 #3179

Someone, or a bunch of someones, threw on a bunch of hash power.  We're at the highest we've been in ages.. 443g/h atm.

Now if we can just get by this 30 hour block.  I'm curious if the extra power will help or if we still have scaling issues.

M

That someone it's me, with 120GH/s, and I have 120GH/s more to add, if everythings works well.


Nice!  What type of setup do you have?   And why'd you leave whatever you were in before?  Just curious..

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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August 10, 2012, 12:47:40 PM
 #3180

That someone it's me, with 120GH/s, and I have 120GH/s more to add, if everythings works well.
Feel free to put it on my public p2pool node Cheesy

-- Smoov
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