[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool

[zvs]

...
well, you probably have more connections than the avg bitcoin user.

many will only have 8

9 on my main one and 8 on my secondary one

what about this one:


09/10/12 02:54:36 received block 0000000000000305d54f
09/10/12 02:54:37 SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000305d54f  height=198085  work=471019712921273781188  date=09/10/12 02:54:16


09/10/12 02:55:41 received block 0000000000000600c45a (from p2pool 'peer' share)
09/10/12 02:55:41 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : already have block 198085 0000000000000600c45a

yet blockchain.info shows

https://blockchain.info/block-index/286598/0000000000000600c45a2c0eab5e72939a45160c941d5658937a75f048dcef15

it received at 2:53:28 (afaik, the 'received' times reported on there are accurate'

https://blockchain.info/block-index/286596/0000000000000305d54fd22241482f7d8dae6a7ac947483a9e37249176e37632

the eclipseMC one was received at 2:54:34, i got it at 2:54:36, and passed it out to about 30 people


what other explanation is there, then someone that should be using addnode, or open up more connections?  there are a decent amt of nodes that actually received this block, even though i got it a full minute late

more stuff:

http://nogleg.com:9332/static/share.html#0000000000000600c45a2c0eab5e72939a45160c941d5658937a75f048dcef15

the parent share was seen like 2 1/2 minutes earlier

upstream bandwidth limitation?  that's all i can think of

another edit.. yeah, ok, so opening up more connections wouldn't help.  addnode might.

but  blockmaxsize=10000  in bitcoin.conf would be even better!

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[kano]

Eh?

I'm suggesting a change to bitcoind that would speed things up.

My comment included the fact that most bitcoind's have most of the transactions that they receive each time they receive a new block.
The problem is that when a node receives a new block, it gets a copy of every transaction in the block and verifies every transaction in the block.
It, however, already has most if not all but one of the transactions in the block, and I'm not sure why the transactions in the memory pool are not verified enough to match the verification applied to the txns in the block.

The network latency of sending around a block is the exact reason I've suggested this before and again here.

[spiccioli]

It seems block 198663

http://blockchain.info/block-index/00000000000001323ff001fd62e171e6066886841fb67b7792db3ab8bc2897a4

has been added to p2pool list of solved blocks but it was not a p2pool block.

spiccioli

[rav3n_pl]

It seems block 198663

http://blockchain.info/block-index/00000000000001323ff001fd62e171e6066886841fb67b7792db3ab8bc2897a4

has been added to p2pool list of solved blocks but it was not a p2pool block.

spiccioli

ahhh.... not again... :/

[streblo]

It seems block 198663 has been added to p2pool list of solved blocks but it was not a p2pool block.

BCI simply reports which IP (and then maps it to a list of pools) relays the block to them in the "Relayed By" field. There's no real way of knowing who mined a block. This just means someone solved a block, sent it to a P2Pool miner (among other miners), and a P2Pool miner sent it to BCI. BCI connects to as many Bitcoin nodes as it can, but it can't always get the block directly from the solver of the block 

[BR0KK]

It runs great here

Im thinking of switching completely next month

[zvs]

Eh?

I'm suggesting a change to bitcoind that would speed things up.

My comment included the fact that most bitcoind's have most of the transactions that they receive each time they receive a new block.
The problem is that when a node receives a new block, it gets a copy of every transaction in the block and verifies every transaction in the block.
It, however, already has most if not all but one of the transactions in the block, and I'm not sure why the transactions in the memory pool are not verified enough to match the verification applied to the txns in the block.

The network latency of sending around a block is the exact reason I've suggested this before and again here.

none of that changes the fact that it's going to be at an inherent disadvantage vs most pools, that'll have 100's of open connections.    

http://blockchain.info/inv/00000000000004522cf2395cfdb85d268a393b781cba2217ce25a29e2f3921c9

09/14/12 18:35:47 ThreadRPCServer method=submitblock
09/14/12 18:35:48 SetBestChain: new best=00000000000004522cf2  height=198785  work=479119430009406564588  date=09/14/12 18:35:28
09/14/12 18:35:48 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED

my US IP then received and processed it at 18:35:48, my kimsufi received it at 18:35:49, but didnt finish processing it until 18:35:53

my p2pool server reports

http://nogleg.com:9332/static/share.html#00000000000004522cf2395cfdb85d268a393b781cba2217ce25a29e2f3921c9

this was solved by someone in russia.  it was relayed to me by a node in slovenia.  i have 60ms ping time to this russian domain, 40ms to slovenia.  

hence 'addnode'

(ed: i never messed with addnodes myself until i started using p2pool, pretty easy to recognize that things would propagate slower when most ppl are running bitcoind with probably 8 connections, seems to me like faster processing time would benefit the person with 500 open connections even moreso..   btcguild has weird propagation,  seems slow to me.  i dont think that would have had a chance vs a slush, deepbit, emc, etc block)

[kano]

It seems block 198663 has been added to p2pool list of solved blocks but it was not a p2pool block.

BCI simply reports which IP (and then maps it to a list of pools) relays the block to them in the "Relayed By" field. There's no real way of knowing who mined a block. This just means someone solved a block, sent it to a P2Pool miner (among other miners), and a P2Pool miner sent it to BCI. BCI connects to as many Bitcoin nodes as it can, but it can't always get the block directly from the solver of the block 

about 50% of blocks tell you who mined them ...

P2Pool is easy to identify due to the coinbase transaction having the payouts, forrestv's donation and other unusual stuff in there

The confusion comes from there being one (or more?) p2pool clones.

[Rassah]

So, I'm in the process of ordering one of those $30k ASIC rigs. Once i get it, how bad would it be to drop that amount of power (1,000GH/s) on P2Pool? Would I have to massively increase my own difficulty? (Would need help with that). Would the combination of the arrival of ASICs and the block reward dropping to 25BTC make mining with GPUs pointless anyway? Will P2Pool and bitcoind even be able to keep up with the hashing onslaught?

[Shadow383]

So, I'm in the process of ordering one of those $30k ASIC rigs. Once i get it, how bad would it be to drop that amount of power (1,000GH/s) on P2Pool? Would I have to massively increase my own difficulty? (Would need help with that). Would the combination of the arrival of ASICs and the block reward dropping to 25BTC make mining with GPUs pointless anyway? Will P2Pool and bitcoind even be able to keep up with the hashing onslaught?

If you're "in the process" of ordering it, there are literally thousands of orders ahead of you and so the question won't matter for a while anyway 

[twmz]

It seems block 198663

http://blockchain.info/block-index/00000000000001323ff001fd62e171e6066886841fb67b7792db3ab8bc2897a4

has been added to p2pool list of solved blocks but it was not a p2pool block.

spiccioli

Fixed this one manually.  Also I added some rudimentary filtering code to the p2pool block detection logic to ignore any blocks that look like p2pool blocks but happen to have < 10 outputs (the real p2pool currently has approx 200 on each found block).  That should prevent this particular p2pool clone from appearing in our block list unless they grow to have more miners.

On a side note, if you are the owner of this p2pool clone or if you are someone who is thinking of making a p2pool clone, please do us a favor and edit the source code to change the donation address from 1Kz5QaUPDtKrj5SqW5tFkn7WZh8LmQaQi4 to something else

(hint: look for 04ffd03de44a6e11b9917f3a29f9443283d9871c9d743ef30d5eddcd37094b64d1b3d8090496b53 256786bf5c82932ec23c3b74d9f05a6f95a8b5529352656664b in the source code) 

You can always send forrestv donations directly (and in this particular p2pool clone, they aren't donating at all anyway, so changing the address won't deprive forrestv of anything).

[Rassah]

So, I'm in the process of ordering one of those $30k ASIC rigs. Once i get it, how bad would it be to drop that amount of power (1,000GH/s) on P2Pool? Would I have to massively increase my own difficulty? (Would need help with that). Would the combination of the arrival of ASICs and the block reward dropping to 25BTC make mining with GPUs pointless anyway? Will P2Pool and bitcoind even be able to keep up with the hashing onslaught?

If you're "in the process" of ordering it, there are literally thousands of orders ahead of you and so the question won't matter for a while anyway 

20-some of the rigs. They said they will release all there product lines at the same time. And they did say that all the orders that were placed before the end of August should be shipped before Christmas. But yeah, it will be a few months.

[BR0KK]

20-some of the rigs. They said they will release all there product lines at the same time. And they did say that all the orders that were placed before the end of August should be shipped before Christmas. But yeah, it will be a few months.

THey told that to the fpga single customers too..... i wouldn't count on them delivering before 2013 !

[Rassah]

20-some of the rigs. They said they will release all there product lines at the same time. And they did say that all the orders that were placed before the end of August should be shipped before Christmas. But yeah, it will be a few months.

THey told that to the fpga single customers too..... i wouldn't count on them delivering before 2013 !

OK
Back to the question, can P2Pool and Bitcoin handle that?

[rav3n_pl]

20-some of the rigs. They said they will release all there product lines at the same time. And they did say that all the orders that were placed before the end of August should be shipped before Christmas. But yeah, it will be a few months.

THey told that to the fpga single customers too..... i wouldn't count on them delivering before 2013 !

OK
Back to the question, can P2Pool and Bitcoin handle that?

P2pool will just adjust share diff to pool hash power in minute. We see that already when pyramining join and we hit 500GH.
Bitcoin network will also adjust but much slower ;]
But witch that power is not better to mine solo?

[SuperHakka]

I is a noob but forgive me I don't have time to read through this long thread, I have a simple question. I want to mine just for fun and to get that warm feeling inside that I'm contributing. My computer is over 10 years old, Pentium IV 2.4 Ghz. I have an old ATI Radeon X800Pro graphics card too. Would I be giving any benefit at all to the p2pool if I was to mine? Would my efforts even be registered? Can't bear to ask how much btc I would make.

[BR0KK]

nope. if i were you i wouldn't start mining with that.. get a decent video card or a used fpga and start with this.

Your "stone-age" (sorry to be hard ) PC will not mine efficient .... you wont make any profit. you even might not break even if considering electricity as a factor.

[Gabi]

I is a noob but forgive me I don't have time to read through this long thread, I have a simple question. I want to mine just for fun and to get that warm feeling inside that I'm contributing. My computer is over 10 years old, Pentium IV 2.4 Ghz. I have an old ATI Radeon X800Pro graphics card too. Would I be giving any benefit at all to the p2pool if I was to mine? Would my efforts even be registered? Can't bear to ask how much btc I would make.

It would be just wasted time and energy. No matter the pool.

Can't bear to ask how much btc I would make.

Probably 0 or something like that. As i said, no matter the pool.
Your "graphic card" support nothing. It can't mine. Your CPU is stone-age and anyway, CPU mining today is useless, no matter the CPU. And soon GPU mining will be useless with the ASIC, so don't worry 

[Gabi]

So it seems p2pool will be natively supported by the bitcoin client

http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/2012/state-of-the-coin-2012.pdf

i didn't know that and it's an awesome news for me!

[rav3n_pl]

So it seems p2pool will be natively supported by the bitcoin client

http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/2012/state-of-the-coin-2012.pdf

i didn't know that and it's an awesome news for me!

They mean to include p2pool code into bitcoin client? Solo mining = build-in p2pool? Not getting it.