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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2591624 times)
Carlton Banks
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July 21, 2013, 08:16:17 PM
 #6181

Also, let me understand: you have cgminer running separately on a laptop with USB connection from FPGA controller connected to the laptop? openWRT controller still monitors temperature and controls fan speed?

I unpluged the USB from openWRT, this is now off. openWRT get the power from that USB cable. Then i have removed the Jumper J1, that is the jumper to provide power to the openWRT.

Now I plugged the USB cable from the avalon into the laptop und run the last cgminer on it. cgminer controlls the temps, frequency, fans etc.

Does this configuration give you the full 80Gh/s, or do you still lose ~10% of the hashrate as I have experienced?

Vires in numeris
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ebereon
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July 21, 2013, 08:28:12 PM
 #6182

Also, let me understand: you have cgminer running separately on a laptop with USB connection from FPGA controller connected to the laptop? openWRT controller still monitors temperature and controls fan speed?

I unpluged the USB from openWRT, this is now off. openWRT get the power from that USB cable. Then i have removed the Jumper J1, that is the jumper to provide power to the openWRT.

Now I plugged the USB cable from the avalon into the laptop und run the last cgminer on it. cgminer controlls the temps, frequency, fans etc.

Does this configuration give you the full 80Gh/s, or do you still lose ~10% of the hashrate as I have experienced?
avalon via laptop = ~80GH/s stable (+32)
avalon openWRT = ~80GH/s not stable (4x restarts needed today) (+16,+32 still crashes, testing +64 atm)

But you can see it at my public pool in my sig.
bitpop
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July 21, 2013, 09:26:25 PM
 #6183

Miner01/1500+1
I don't understand difference between / and +
How do I use a diff of 4

maqifrnswa
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July 21, 2013, 09:59:51 PM
 #6184

Miner01/1500+1
I don't understand difference between / and +
How do I use a diff of 4

Miner01/1500+1

right now that doesn't do anything
/1500 means only return difficulty >1500 pseudoshares to the p2pool network. Right now the default is 8480.
+1 means report all difficulty 1 shares to your miner software

so both of those will end up being the default

if you want your miner to use a diff of 4, try

Miner01+4
baloo_kiev
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July 22, 2013, 12:51:32 AM
 #6185


    Now consider the rule defined by those 3 lines I was talking about. It states "If a share (S) is based on stale block, mine on its parent (P)." (That's what "Punishing for block-stale / Jumping to ..." log message is about.) If a miner (either intentionally or because of slow bitcoind) disrespects this rule, not only he loses nothing, but may also eventually profit from it! Really, his share A (a child of block-stale share S, which is punished by the rest of the network) is 1 share ahead of "proper" miner's share B, which is P's child. As a result, A will have priority over B even if B is found earlier!

    Should I report a bug on GitHub?

    You should. But read below why I think it's not high priority.

    2 cases in your example:
    • local bitcoind lagging: miner is punished most of the time so it is prevented to benefit from worthless work as intended and is motivated to upgrade his/her configuration
    • node trying to make his share more resilient by avoiding to build on the parent share

    In the "more resilient attack" the node can only attack after one out of 20 shares (30s share interval with 10mn block interval) if and only if it is from a slow node producing a stale share

    A node does not have to be slow to produce a block-stale share. Any non-block-stale share will become block-stale after a new block.

    Quote
    (assuming we don't have nodes more than 30-60s behind the Bitcoin network able to make 2 successive stale shares).

    With high-hashrate nodes it gets even worse because any node doesn't punish own block-stales:
    [/list]
    Code:
        if (self.header['previous_block'], self.header['bits']) != (previous_block, bits) and self.header_hash != previous_block and self.peer_addr is not None:
            return True, 'Block-stale detected! %x < %x' % (self.header['previous_block'], previous_block)
      So a massive node doesn't even have to be slow to orphan other's shares.

    Quote
    • if another node finds a share before him he will automatically switch to it as building on either fork doesn't give him any benefit anymore
    With 10% global stales, which corresponds to about 3s effective latency on average, he has those 3s or even more to send his share to other peers before he receives and processes that other's share. Once sent to any, even just 1 peer, his share will definitely orphan the "proper" one.

    Quote
    • if he finds a share before the rest of the network, he won't have gained anything (he has as much chances of that happening when mining on the parent share)
    • the only gain is when he finds a share that collides with another : there he will be sure to win instead of having ~50% chances
    .

    So someone trying this attack will get benefit for less than 5% (1 in 20 at most, probably far less) of his expected DOA+Orphan rate (which seems to be ~10% since we switched to a 30s share interval) and this benefit will be ~50%.

    If he has high latency, both your estimates are wrong. Someone may have even 20% stales and sure to win instead of having ~10% chances. In this case, his expected benefit is...

    Quote
    So in the most pathological case where 100% of the network produces stale shares (built with the previous block), the expected benefit is only 50% of 10% of 5% : 0.25%.

    90% of 20% of 5% = 0.9%

    Quote
    Most nodes probably don't produce stale shares, so this is more likely a ~0.1% advantage.

    As I stated before, every node produces block-stale shares, because a good share becomes a block-stale after block switch.

    Quote
    Now what is the attacker losing? If you don't punish slow nodes you are hurting yourself as much as the rest of the network by validating wasted work. The exception is the slow node which is grateful to be paid for worthless work.
    For every gained share you are validating one worthless share. If everyone did this, everyone would lose money to worthless shares producers instead of gaining 0.1%. Now it's too late for me to try to estimate how much is lost but disabling the protection might not be a good idea, especially if many are doing it. It probably would end in a "tragedy of the commons": you can gain a bit by doing it, but when everyone does it, everyone loses.

    Again, most punished shares are good shares turned block-stale by a new block. That means with hash < block target, they would have been a valid block at the time they were found.

    Quote
    Allowing worthless work allows it to rise without limits: if there are very slow bitcoinds with very high hashrate they could make 2 or more consecutive stale shares a frequent occasion and rise the worthless hashrate to 10 or more percent of the whole pool.

    One solution might be to ignore stale shares when comparing the different sharechain forks. People disabling the protection would get no benefit at all.

    Exactly! Jumping to a fork with same height but less block-stales is right. Jumping to the parent is nonsense.

    Disabling this jumping is essential not only for slow nodes. Look, while a new bitcoin block is propagated by the network, some p2pool nodes receive it earlier, some later. At this time, it's better for anyone to be safe and work on the last share instead of its parent.

    Quote
    In the meanwhile, advocating to remove the protection is an attack on P2Pool, please stop doing it unless you want to participate in your own reduced income.

    I haven't removed the punishing itself but only disabled jumping to parent share. When comparing two forks, it's still active.
    And people here complain that they have their good shares orphaned all the time by this mechanism. Why should they have reduced income because someone else (with much higher hashrate) doesn't care about tuning his node?

    PGP: 6EC48BA7
    Welcome to my p2pool: BTC
    freshzive
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    July 23, 2013, 02:49:59 AM
     #6186

    When is this round going to end Sad

    daemondazz
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    July 23, 2013, 03:56:16 AM
     #6187

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

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    elebit
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    July 23, 2013, 10:45:33 AM
     #6188

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    That's the thing with randomness. You never know. Bad luck will follow bad luck precisely as often as good luck will.

    But one can always hope  Wink
    agath
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    July 23, 2013, 10:59:54 AM
     #6189

    But one can always hope  Wink

    Hope is useless, so relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten.
    PatMan
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    July 23, 2013, 12:03:08 PM
     #6190

    But one can always hope  Wink

    Hope is useless, so relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten.


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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    kano
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    July 23, 2013, 01:14:30 PM
     #6191

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!
    Future mining is unaffected by past mining.
    Thinking otherwise is called the Gambler's Falacy.
    I added a BFL SC Single on to p2pool today ... I wonder if that will help Smiley

    (P.S. I run /+64 but I don't put up the true share difficulty)

    Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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    Undef
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    July 23, 2013, 02:57:44 PM
     #6192

    We have a long list of blocks in the "Strange Blocks" list on blockchain: https://blockchain.info/strange-transactions.  That list goes back to late May, and a cursory glance suggests every one of p2pool's blocks appears there.

    It looks like one of us isn't getting paid  Cry

    Since this is always at the bottom of each transaction list:

    Code:
    1Kz5QaUPDtKrj5SqW5tFkn7WZh8LmQaQi4 0.0123456789 BTC
    Unable to decode input address 0 BTC

    Does that mean 1Kz5Q is the one not getting paid?  Are those coins redistributed among the miners (I'm not sure they could be), or just lost?

    Should we worry about this at all?
    kjj
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    July 23, 2013, 04:20:51 PM
     #6193

    We have a long list of blocks in the "Strange Blocks" list on blockchain: https://blockchain.info/strange-transactions.  That list goes back to late May, and a cursory glance suggests every one of p2pool's blocks appears there.

    It looks like one of us isn't getting paid  Cry

    Since this is always at the bottom of each transaction list:

    Code:
    1Kz5QaUPDtKrj5SqW5tFkn7WZh8LmQaQi4 0.0123456789 BTC
    Unable to decode input address 0 BTC

    Does that mean 1Kz5Q is the one not getting paid?  Are those coins redistributed among the miners (I'm not sure they could be), or just lost?

    Should we worry about this at all?

    No, p2pool shares are regular bitcoin blocks.  The generation transaction includes a bogus transaction to keep track of internal state (actually, a hash of the share chain).  Incidentally, the current protocol actually had a change to that bogus transaction to make it more network friendly.

    17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
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    zvs
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    July 23, 2013, 05:06:16 PM
     #6194

    oh, check out this beast:
    If you're gonna keep posting this crap, at least learn how to use a code box.

    Seriously, how difficult is this?
    Why?  I wasn't quoting anyone.  There was one or two lines posted before the log snippet?   Roll Eyes

    If you're complaining about the length, then surely something like

    this

    would be better

    Quote
    Again, most punished shares are good shares turned block-stale by a new block. That means with hash < block target, they would have been a valid block at the time they were found.

    Yeah, I didn't notice that/pick up on that myself until that one share that was 20 seconds prior to block still being 'punished'.   Undecided
    mdude77
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    July 23, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
     #6195

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    I've been on for 3 days now.  I'm still not at "ideal" payout.  Despite running at > 100% efficiency.  Everyone else seeing this?  Running around 5gh/s.

    M

    I mine at Kano's Pool because it pays the best and is completely transparent!  Come join me!
    freshzive
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    July 23, 2013, 10:33:53 PM
     #6196

    Yeah, it takes quite a while now because the difficulty shot up after the upgrade. I forget how many days it took my 15GH to reach optimal, but I felt like it was near a week.

    notme
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    July 23, 2013, 11:18:58 PM
     #6197

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    I've been on for 3 days now.  I'm still not at "ideal" payout.  Despite running at > 100% efficiency.  Everyone else seeing this?  Running around 5gh/s.

    M

    Does the reported hashrate match your mining software?  Also, on the graphs page check the "Local Rate" vs "Local Rate Reflected in Shares".  If LRRiS is lower than LR, than you have just had bad luck and it should even out with time.

    https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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    lenny_
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    July 24, 2013, 12:33:52 AM
     #6198

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in

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    notme
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    July 24, 2013, 12:51:24 AM
     #6199

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in

    It must be on the old fork

    https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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    twmz
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    July 24, 2013, 12:53:57 AM
     #6200

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in

    It must be on the old fork

    *sigh*

    My home network has been down for a couple hours and so p2pool.info switched to using one of the other public p2pool nodes to get stats.  Sadly, it happened to choose one that is on a fork.

    Edit: ironically, it was pulling stats from p2pool.org, which is on an old fork.  I'll remove that one from the list of possible backup stats nodes.

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