Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[Unacceptable]

Well,we can do nothing but wait.I don't see a refund from Avalon in any way shape or form & I will NOT buy or want anything else,2nd 3rd 4th gen crap from Avalon either  

Unless that is the ONLY option to recoup our investment....................

I know Steamboat is doing all he can to get us going & I thank him for all that effort  

So we now have two shit companies Avalon & BFL,I wonder who else we can add to this list,only time will tell  

Thanks again for all your hard work Steamboat !!!!!!!!!!!  

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[cardcomm]

I have tried not to put too much thought into the ongoings.

My only concern now is setting up a tip jar for Steamboat; for handling the group buys, being patient, giving excellent service, and obtaining the materials to build high-quality "shovels" and "pick axes" that us crazy miners need to have our crazy fun.

Steamboat, will you please provide a BTCitcoin address where we can send you gratuities?

Seriously? Your only concern now is giving Steamboat money? WTF.

I guess some people really DO have more money than sense.

Half of the people on these forums are absolutely insane.

I STRONGLY resent your implication here.

Have a nice day to you to.

[brishtiteveja]

I have tried not to put too much thought into the ongoings.

My only concern now is setting up a tip jar for Steamboat; for handling the group buys, being patient, giving excellent service, and obtaining the materials to build high-quality "shovels" and "pick axes" that us crazy miners need to have our crazy fun.

Steamboat, will you please provide a BTCitcoin address where we can send you gratuities?

Seriously? Your only concern now is giving Steamboat money? WTF.

I guess some people really DO have more money than sense.

Half of the people on these forums are absolutely insane. They swing from hero worshipers to reddit/slashdot-level trolls to scam artists of all varieties. The other half are regular folks, trying to make some money with a hobby.

There will be no refunds, people. You will not get more than you paid. Steamboat will live up to his end of the deal. Yifu will likely ship the chips within a few weeks or whenever he gets around to it. Avalon's disdain for their forum customers is clearly evident and I hope it hurts them in the future.

Legal action is a joke, discussion around it is useless. There was talk of legal action surrounding BFL... nothing. Legal action surrounding Pirate... nothing. Bitconica... nothing. By all means, express your anger at Avalon, but as for "doing something," be it taking up collections for steamboat to starting lawsuits against Avalon, at this point are ludicrous.

WTF

[powpow]

Half of the people on these forums are absolutely insane. They swing from hero worshipers to reddit/slashdot-level trolls to scam artists of all varieties. The other half are regular folks, trying to make some money with a hobby.

There will be no refunds, people. You will not get more than you paid. Steamboat will live up to his end of the deal. Yifu will likely ship the chips within a few weeks or whenever he gets around to it. Avalon's disdain for their forum customers is clearly evident and I hope it hurts them in the future.

Legal action is a joke, discussion around it is useless. There was talk of legal action surrounding BFL... nothing. Legal action surrounding Pirate... nothing. Bitconica... nothing. By all means, express your anger at Avalon, but as for "doing something," be it taking up collections for steamboat to starting lawsuits against Avalon, at this point are ludicrous.

It would actually be a very strong court case.  The "no bullshit" terms of sale that Avalon did not meet.  They were selling time sensitive hardware.  They are an American registered company.  This isn't a "bitcoin" lawsuit, it's a purchase of time sensitive hardware that they failed to deliver according to their own "no bullshit" terms.

[Nagle]

Legal action is a joke, discussion around it is useless. There was talk of legal action surrounding BFL... nothing. Legal action surrounding Pirate... nothing. Bitconica... nothing. By all means, express your anger at Avalon, but as for "doing something," be it taking up collections for steamboat to starting lawsuits against Avalon, at this point are ludicrous.

Reality check: Bitcoinica is being sued in San Francisco. "Pirate" has been charged with fraud by the SEC and his case is not looking good for him.

[KS]

Legal action is a joke, discussion around it is useless. There was talk of legal action surrounding BFL... nothing. Legal action surrounding Pirate... nothing. Bitconica... nothing. By all means, express your anger at Avalon, but as for "doing something," be it taking up collections for steamboat to starting lawsuits against Avalon, at this point are ludicrous.

Reality check: Bitcoinica is being sued in San Francisco. "Pirate" has been charged with fraud by the SEC and his case is not looking good for him.

Is this 2012 again?

[Kapz786]

Steamboat - once you do finally receive Batch #1 chips what do you expect the turn around time will be from when you receive to when they are fully assembled and mining for people that have chosen the hosting option?

[cardcomm]

Has anyone seen the latest project next difficulty level? The situation is looking quite bleak. This delay has already killed our ROI.

The only profits left at this point are for the assemblers / group buy leaders. The chips will probably ship eventually, the assemblers will build and ship out then worthless products. Everyone will have "fulfilled their obligations". The assemblers and group buy leaders will have their profits, and the end users will be the proud new owners of equipment worth far less than they paid for it.

Rinse and repeat, and that's the Bitcoin mining hardware business in a nutshell.

I'm a small buyer in one of the later batches. I know my opinion counts for zip in this matter. Yet I'd like to go on record and state that I strongly disagree with Steamboat's "wait and see attitude". Yes, if we wait long enough, we'll probably get the chips. But what's the point by then?

Steamboat has stated he will continue to monitor the situation. I'm not even sure what that means. If that means he's exploring civil and law enforcement intervention, then fine. If it means he's monitoring his email for news on when Avalon may decide to ship, that's not good enough!

The excuses in Avalon's latest statement are hard to believe at best. Frankly, IMO It's one of the most absurd official company lies I've ever seen. It's clearly a ploy to get us off his back for a couple more weeks. AND WE ARE DOING JUST WHAT HE WANTS! Yifu is acting like a spoiled child trying to get his way, and we are letting him get away with it.

Ideally, I'd like to see all the group buy leaders get together and take a united stance. I feel that is our best chance at a timely resolution. Combined, they should have enough leverage to get things moving.

Barring that happening, I'd like to see Steamboat step up and say just a little bit more than "Let's just keep waiting". If nothing else, set a deadline for chip shipments, and outline potential next steps should that shipping window not be met. The group buy individual purchasers don't have a contract with Avalon. Steamboat does. It's time he actively advocate for our rights under that contract!

Some sort of action must be taken soon, or we may as well all just pack it up! Simply continuing to wait will have EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this group buy lose their ass. But hey, it's bitcoin mining - nothing new there, right?

I know I've said things in this post that will be unpopular. Flame away if you must. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just stating things as I see them. Something must be done here guys!

PS: I'll try and respond kindly to the inevitable flames to my post. But please excuse me if my responses are delayed. As a customer in a later batch, my profits are gone at this point no matter what happens. I'll probably take a break from here and go lick my wounds. Someone wake me up if my miners ever ship...

[jasinlee]

Cardcomm, even if you are right, it just wont happen.

[driksson]

Has anyone seen the latest project next difficulty level? The situation is looking quite bleak. This delay has already killed our ROI.

The only profits left at this point are for the assemblers / group buy leaders. The chips will probably ship eventually, the assemblers will build and ship out then worthless products. Everyone will have "fulfilled their obligations". The assemblers and group buy leaders will have their profits, and the end users will be the proud new owners of equipment worth far less than they paid for it.

Rinse and repeat, and that's the Bitcoin mining hardware business in a nutshell.

I'm a small buyer in one of the later batches. I know my opinion counts for zip in this matter. Yet I'd like to go on record and state that I strongly disagree with Steamboat's "wait and see attitude". Yes, if we wait long enough, we'll probably get the chips. But what's the point by then?

Steamboat has stated he will continue to monitor the situation. I'm not even sure what that means. If that means he's exploring civil and law enforcement intervention, then fine. If it means he's monitoring his email for news on when Avalon may decide to ship, that's not good enough!

The excuses in Avalon's latest statement are hard to believe at best. Frankly, IMO It's one of the most absurd official company lies I've ever seen. It's clearly a ploy to get us off his back for a couple more weeks. AND WE ARE DOING JUST WHAT HE WANTS! Yifu is acting like a spoiled child trying to get his way, and we are letting him get away with it.

Ideally, I'd like to see all the group buy leaders get together and take a united stance. I feel that is our best chance at a timely resolution. Combined, they should have enough leverage to get things moving.

Barring that happening, I'd like to see Steamboat step up and say just a little bit more than "Let's just keep waiting". If nothing else, set a deadline for chip shipments, and outline potential next steps should that shipping window not be met. The group buy individual purchasers don't have a contract with Avalon. Steamboat does. It's time he actively advocate for our rights under that contract!

Some sort of action must be taken soon, or we may as well all just pack it up! Simply continuing to wait will have EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this group buy lose their ass. But hey, it's bitcoin mining - nothing new there, right?

I know I've said things in this post that will be unpopular. Flame away if you must. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just stating things as I see them. Something must be done here guys!

PS: I'll try and respond kindly to the inevitable flames to my post. But please excuse me if my responses are delayed. As a customer in a later batch, my profits are gone at this point no matter what happens. I'll probably take a break from here and go lick my wounds. Someone wake me up if my miners ever ship...

Absolutely agree.. Only if we speak up, we can expect refunds or compensation.
It doesnt matter if you lost $10 or $10,000. Each group buy was for 700BTC. It should be the voice of everyone, in the same boat.

[driksson]

Cardcomm, even if you are right, it just wont happen.

And you are basing this on? Personal relations with Avalon? They have a refund ticket in their ordering system. Are you saying its not valid any longer?
Any specific reason why you are speaking for Avalon in this case?

[jasinlee]

If we were to all request refunds, do you think Yifu would give them? Or would it cause a bank run? Would he just disappear and pocket all the money he got so far? That is the general method of operation with btc businesses when the going gets tough. I would rather have the miners than chance any of that.

[driksson]

If we were to all request refunds, do you think Yifu would give them? Or would it cause a bank run? Would he just disappear and pocket all the money he got so far? That is the general method of operation with btc businesses when the going gets tough. I would rather have the miners than chance any of that.

There are risks in running businesses, And Avalon should take their part in the risk here. So instead of making millions, he will make less on this deal. And then potentially redeem himself when delivering Gen 2. By sticking his head in the sand, he wont sell any Gen 2 chips..
And if rumors are true, with backing of big big operators, they wont allow him to "disappear and pocket the money", they'd rather take the fault, to redeem themselves in gen 2.
We are all allowed to have our opinions. Just dont get why someone speaks for someone else for no particular reason.
And yes, we also took a risk. But those risks were based on 9-10 weeks delivery. not 20, 30 or 40 weeks.
Refund, give new price when in stock. Give all GroupBuyers priority if they want to get back in.

[jasinlee]

And what happens to the people that bought parts already and are sitting on non refundable parts? Should they have their chips refunded (most of the people in the group buy) to satisfy  a few users in the group buy? Lets be realistic here.

[cp1]

What's the point in getting chip refunds when we've already paid for assembly etc?  I'd rather have a miner with chips in it than a miner without chips sitting on my desk.

[driksson]

And what happens to the people that bought parts already and are sitting on non refundable parts? Should they have their chips refunded (most of the people in the group buy) to satisfy  a few users in the group buy? Lets be realistic here.

If Avalon is right about gen2 coming out in october. Those past groupbuys should get priority (for example those with refund).
Old hardware designs shall support gen 2 chips.
Would that then not be best? get refund now, wait for gen 2 when you might actually get some of your investment back. And then they only offer gen 2 based on in stock ordering so we will know that the delivery time will be correct.

[driksson]

What's the point in getting chip refunds when we've already paid for assembly etc?  I'd rather have a miner with chips in it than a miner without chips sitting on my desk.

So you don't want any compensation for delays?
What if the refund gave you priority of gen2 delivered in october, and your board would support it?
I'm speechless of how friendly some people are for getting screwed like this..

[cp1]

And what happens to the people that bought parts already and are sitting on non refundable parts? Should they have their chips refunded (most of the people in the group buy) to satisfy  a few users in the group buy? Lets be realistic here.

If Avalon is right about gen2 coming out in october. Those past groupbuys should get priority (for example those with refund).
Old hardware designs shall support gen 2 chips.
Would that then not be best? get refund now, wait for gen 2 when you might actually get some of your investment back. And then they only offer gen 2 based on in stock ordering so we will know that the delivery time will be correct.

From what I read the gen2 will be the same size, but different pinout and I'm sure other small differences would need a complete redesign. You can't expect to just drop it in.

[cp1]

So you don't want any compensation for delays?
What if the refund gave you priority of gen2 delivered in october, and your board would support it?
I'm speechless of how friendly some people are for getting screwed like this..

Of course I would.  I'd love a 50% rebate on the chips I purchased from Avalon.

[jasinlee]

And what happens to the people that bought parts already and are sitting on non refundable parts? Should they have their chips refunded (most of the people in the group buy) to satisfy  a few users in the group buy? Lets be realistic here.

If Avalon is right about gen2 coming out in october. Those past groupbuys should get priority (for example those with refund).
Old hardware designs shall support gen 2 chips.
Would that then not be best? get refund now, wait for gen 2 when you might actually get some of your investment back. And then they only offer gen 2 based on in stock ordering so we will know that the delivery time will be correct.

How do you know those chips would function on the old boards that were already bought and paid for by the group buy members? Do they have the same pin out? Voltage? Watts? Amps? Grounds? There are so many factors to consider that could make the entire investment a waste in your scenario that I would rather just wait.