Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[Galli]

Yifu has responded to zefir that he would prefer to refund the BTC for the chips rather than any other option.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

I think we should refund all chips and steamboat should organize a suit to cover damages, parts, steamboats time... etc.  This little turd should not be let off this easy

[1714771939]

1714771939

[1714771939]

1714771939

[cardcomm]

Thank you for the update Steamboat,

Please do update us on the refund aspect for assembly costs. Burnin stated in his thread at least 50% recovery is likely, more if you reuse components with him for the Bitfury project. Everyone understands there are sunk costs that are not recoverable, but other unperformed services should be recoverable.

I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

For those that received a refund i could give a discount on a new bitfury order of about 70% of the not-returned funds.
But we all have to ask ourselves: is bitfury going to deliver?

Executive summary:
50% refund guaranteed.
70% money recovered when ordering a BitFury product.

Understanding what recovery is possible on assembly services has a large impact on deciding whether or not to go ahead with a refund IMHO.

This all may be mute though. In Yifu's latest communication to Zefir he said he much prefers refunds over anything else. His comments also made it sound as if he is having difficulty receiving ASICs at all (shock), which makes me think these batches may all just end up getting canceled refunded regardless what we decide...

Thanks again for the hard work on this steamboat, it is too bad for everyone it has gone this way

Yeah, I agree with this. We need more information from Steamboat regarding possible partial refunds on assembly. I'd like to see that addressed by him personally as soon as possible (yes, I know he's busy).

I also inferred from Yifuk's communication that he has significant doubts as to his ability to ship the chips. I personally feel like that was his back-handed way of telling us no chips would be forthcoming anytime soon. I unfortunately believe he was trying to tell us that further waiting will be fruitless.

In summary, I'd like a refund on my batch 4 chips (let us know how to request this officially, please Steamboat), and I'd like to see further information/discussion on partial assembly refund options.

It's too bad that this has all unraveled - thanks for all the hard work on this Steamboat. I'm sure we are all looking forward to any additional information you have to share.

[Lollaskates]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

BUT if the chips arent coming, i'd like a full refund for 256 chips as well and see what we can do about refunding some of the assembly. I'd rather eat a ~1k loss than a 2k one.

[eroxors]

Clearly we need more information from Yifu and SB to make an informed decision.

[wrenchmonkey]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

[eroxors]

Who says those options ARE available? Just because Yifu mentions that he prefers something, doesn't mean he will follow through. Not meaning to FUD here, but nothing guarantees us that he will deliver chips OR a refund. We aren't waiting The situation is unresolved not because we're "picking unrealistic options" but because we have no information.

[Lollaskates]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

[cp1]

Partial refund would be nice.

[Lollaskates]

If I read the initial OP correctly, ~$30 for parts and $60 for assembly. Assembly hasn't happened yet, and I'm sure willing to eat the parts to get a refund on my chips.

256 chip refund in Batch #4 please. That would also be a (16 x $60) $960 refund from steamboat for something that hasn't taken place yet, which isn't much to ask. He can keep my $30 BOM parts for each board since they are already purchased, I don't care.

Also Steamboat, telling us no we can't have refunds on something that CAN be refunded such as an assembly that hasn't taken place yet is bad form. You've been better than that. We all understand those parts can't be refunded, but that assembly house we paid with BitPay sure as hell can refund us for something it hasn't done. I'm sorry you have to deal with this fallout (again, feel free to keep the parts and resell them to recoup loss).

EDIT:

251 Chips TXID: 52e32f568bcb489f21957acd20fc77b4a730a4ec8773f094313e76ceb485a3c2
5 Chip TXID: c68e0eb3eace8a3e868cc3ce12a2076c0371e38fc67c73f6e2b9207f67922f3d

256 Chips

[wrenchmonkey]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

No, YOU need to re-read what he said:

"b) [partial refund] I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)"

What about this indicates that he's offering partial refund?

[Lollaskates]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

No, YOU need to re-read what he said:

"b) [partial refund] I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)"

What about this indicates that he's offering partial refund?

ask yourself how waiting until the chips were on-hand and selling them at a discount helps the groupbuyers (the topic of discussion). How would this be relevant? He isn't talking about anyone else here, he's selling discounted chips to us. This isnt any different than a partial refund. We would net a full refund, and then buy discounted chips. He himself equates it to the same thing, he just doesnt like the term "partial refund" because its negative. he prefers "sell at a discount".

[wrenchmonkey]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

No, YOU need to re-read what he said:

"b) [partial refund] I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)"

What about this indicates that he's offering partial refund?

ask yourself how waiting until the chips were on-hand and selling them at a discount helps the groupbuyers (the topic of discussion). How would this be relevant? He isn't talking about anyone else here, he's selling discounted chips to us. This isnt any different than a partial refund. We would net a full refund, and then buy discounted chips. He himself equates it to the same thing, he just doesnt like the term "partial refund" because its negative. he prefers "sell at a discount".

That's some very interpretive creative reading you've done there... Perhaps English isn't your first language? Try reading what he wrote, not what you wish he'd written.

He said he's not interested in doing partial refunds. He'd rather do complete refunds, and then sell the chips when he has them in hand. He doesn't like the exposure he has with outstanding orders, which he has made clear, by saying time and time again that he has no interest in dealing with pre-orders anymore.

He further reinforces this sentiment when he states that he also has no interest in converting orders to 2 gen, because he still has the problem of outstanding chip orders that he hasn't got the ability to deliver, which he is trying to get away from.

Reading is fundamental. Reading-comprehension is just as important.

[Lollaskates]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

No, YOU need to re-read what he said:

"b) [partial refund] I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)"

What about this indicates that he's offering partial refund?

ask yourself how waiting until the chips were on-hand and selling them at a discount helps the groupbuyers (the topic of discussion). How would this be relevant? He isn't talking about anyone else here, he's selling discounted chips to us. This isnt any different than a partial refund. We would net a full refund, and then buy discounted chips. He himself equates it to the same thing, he just doesnt like the term "partial refund" because its negative. he prefers "sell at a discount".

That's some very interpretive creative reading you've done there... Perhaps English isn't your first language? Try reading what he wrote, not what you wish he'd written.

He said he's not interested in doing partial refunds. He'd rather do complete refunds, and then sell the chips when he has them in hand. He doesn't like the exposure he has with outstanding orders, which he has made clear, by saying time and time again that he has no interest in dealing with pre-orders anymore.

He further reinforces this sentiment when he states that he also has no interest in converting orders to 2 gen, because he still has the problem of outstanding chip orders that he hasn't got the ability to deliver, which he is trying to get away from.

Reading is fundamental. Reading-comprehension is just as important.

You literally just echoed what I said you fucking idiot.

[cardcomm]

I know we are all under a lot of stress here, but let's try and play nice

The way I PERSONALLY read/interpreted his statement was that the full refund option was the only one he was really open to. He basically said no to every option BUT the suggestion of full refunds, to which his response was "I am very open to this, this is what I suggest."

[ionstorm]

If I read the initial OP correctly, ~$30 for parts and $60 for assembly. Assembly hasn't happened yet, and I'm sure willing to eat the parts to get a refund on my chips.

256 chip refund in Batch #4 please. That would also be a (16 x $60) $960 refund from steamboat for something that hasn't taken place yet, which isn't much to ask. He can keep my $30 BOM parts for each board since they are already purchased, I don't care.

Also Steamboat, telling us no we can't have refunds on something that CAN be refunded such as an assembly that hasn't taken place yet is bad form. You've been better than that. We all understand those parts can't be refunded, but that assembly house we paid with BitPay sure as hell can refund us for something it hasn't done. I'm sorry you have to deal with this fallout (again, feel free to keep the parts and resell them to recoup loss).

EDIT:

251 Chips TXID: 52e32f568bcb489f21957acd20fc77b4a730a4ec8773f094313e76ceb485a3c2
5 Chip TXID: c68e0eb3eace8a3e868cc3ce12a2076c0371e38fc67c73f6e2b9207f67922f3d

256 Chips

I believe assembly fees were used to fund parts through batch 4 and probably other expenses, packaging materials as well as paid people to assemble these boards and solder chips on the boards.  I do however support some type of partial refund if steamboat can make it happen, even if its 10%.  Realistically depending on how many chips you bought, it may be smarter to just mine than get a 50% refund which is just the chips.  We may not reach full roi but we would probably reach a higher percentage than what would be refunded.  It all depends on how many chips you bought though.  If you have 200 chips, you'll roi faster than 16 chips.

[bigbeninlondon]

If you have 200 chips, you'll roi faster than 16 chips.

How do you figure?  16 chips mines at proportionally the same rate as 200 chips.  The only difference is less power supplies per 16. 

[pixl8tr]

It all depends on how many chips you bought though.  If you have 200 chips, you'll roi faster than 16 chips.

LOL

[wrenchmonkey]

Thinking about it, If the chips were eventually on their way I would be okay with a partial refund for the chips that was mentioned in that Zefir post (to match what the chips are worth now). Yifu suggested it.

That is NOT going to happen. Personally, I'd be okay with getting a 100% refund, plus a little extra for my troubles, plus a blowjob from an outrageously hot blonde.

But we need to choose from the options that are AVAILABLE, not just fantasy. Yifu said he's not interested in any options other than a refund for purchase price. Take it or leave it. Those are your options.

The sooner people face reality, and start picking from the options that are actually available, the sooner things get resolved.

you need to re-read what he said to zefir. partial refund is on the table.

No, YOU need to re-read what he said:

"b) [partial refund] I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)"

What about this indicates that he's offering partial refund?

ask yourself how waiting until the chips were on-hand and selling them at a discount helps the groupbuyers (the topic of discussion). How would this be relevant? He isn't talking about anyone else here, he's selling discounted chips to us. This isnt any different than a partial refund. We would net a full refund, and then buy discounted chips. He himself equates it to the same thing, he just doesnt like the term "partial refund" because its negative. he prefers "sell at a discount".

That's some very interpretive creative reading you've done there... Perhaps English isn't your first language? Try reading what he wrote, not what you wish he'd written.

He said he's not interested in doing partial refunds. He'd rather do complete refunds, and then sell the chips when he has them in hand. He doesn't like the exposure he has with outstanding orders, which he has made clear, by saying time and time again that he has no interest in dealing with pre-orders anymore.

He further reinforces this sentiment when he states that he also has no interest in converting orders to 2 gen, because he still has the problem of outstanding chip orders that he hasn't got the ability to deliver, which he is trying to get away from.

Reading is fundamental. Reading-comprehension is just as important.

You literally just echoed what I said you fucking idiot.

You're the one claiming he's offering a partial refund. He's not. Period. What he's offering is a refund NOW, with the possibility to re-order at a discount LATER. He's not offering to give you a partial refund, no matter how dense you try to be.

[kostagr33k]

I like your signature pixl8tr .


I'll be holding onto my boards / chips. As long as price keeps going up, even slightly every week or two, we may sneak something out.


kosta

[chsados]

I like your signature pixl8tr .


I'll be holding onto my boards / chips. As long as price keeps going up, even slightly every week or two, we may sneak something out.


kosta

With that same logic - you would be far better off getting a refund and holding on to the coins.