Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[-Redacted-]

Thank god I'm not the only one.  I thought we were being overrun by mobs with pitchforks.  

No - that's happening over on the Terrahash thread - where people have some problem understanding exactly what "two weeks after receiving chips" means.

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[Boxman90]

I'm not okay with any of your assertions.  I just find it better to have some kind of evidence that "fuckall is being done" before jumping to conclusions.  Do you have any idea what is going on?  Then why assume the worst?  You have NO CLUE what Steamboat is doing, so you automatically assume he's doing nothing?  Poor form, my friend.  How do you know he's not so busy trying to figure out a solution that he doesn't have time to address every person's concerns?  Most people's concerns right now are a direct result of Yifu not supplying enough information.  Transferring the questions Yifu is not answering to Steamboat, and then getting upset when Steamboat doesn't answer them is deflection.  Stop it.

Eh, clearly the ballast of providing the evidence that anything is being done, lies with steamboat. Telling me I need to provide evidence of something nonexistant is ridiculous. I can't prove there's no giant flying spaghettimonster either - so should we just blindly assume there is one then?

I can tell, however, that he has plenty of time to answer us, as he's online on this forum practically all day.

In the end I'm not Yifu's customer. I'm steamboats customer, and I paid him for services which in all honesty include providing his customers with information, which he's clearly not doing right now. I have every reason to be upset.

Clearly, you need to stop glorifying steamboat as some saint who can't be blamed for any of this. He clearly can, as he's just not answering anyone right now. On top of that, I want to sell my order on to someone else, but as long as steamboat refuses to reply to my attempts to contact him, I can't even do that.

[rammy2k2]

what the hell do u want steamboat to tell u ? he's waiting for chips and thats it .. wtf is so hard to understand ?

[Boxman90]

what the hell do u want steamboat to tell u ? he's waiting for chips and thats it .. wtf is so hard to understand ?

For one i want to know the procedure of how to transfer my order to someone else. That the chips are not here yet doesn't mean he doesn't have to sit on his ass and do nothing. He needs to respond to my messages, is that so hard to get through your skull? It's his god damn duty, for he is PAID to provide these services.

[villex]

Actually both of you are right, steamboat needs to answer the emails and PM's because even if the chips are not even shipped some people need support, like Boxman here, who want to sell his chips. I get the idea of answer all and every message when most are "where are my chips?", is tedious but not all the messages are for that. If the people with real support request have waited at least 48 hours, giving steamboat some time to review all his inboxes, then I will say the complaint is sustained.

[rocks]

You guys need to stop blaming steamboat seriously.

The group buy was very clear, it is simply an organized pool to purchase and divide larger batch orders of 10K chips, so that you did not have to shell out ~$100K for a minimum order but could order chips in much smaller quantities.

All of the risk of non-delivery or late delivery by Avalon falls to individual purchasers and is shared by all. You should view this if as you purchased chips directly from Avalon (not steamboat) and it is Yifu and Avalon who screwed you. There is nothing steamboat can do until they deliver.

I have several thousand dollars riding on this, knew the risks and am pissed too, but steamboat is not the issue and has run the group buy well so far.

[villex]

You guys need to stop blaming steamboat seriously.

The group buy was very clear, it is simply an organized pool to purchase and divide larger batch orders of 10K chips, so that you did not have to shell out ~$100K for a minimum order but could order chips in much smaller quantities.

All of the risk of non-delivery or late delivery by Avalon falls to individual purchasers and is shared by all. You should view this if as you purchased chips directly from Avalon (not steamboat) and it is Yifu and Avalon who screwed you. There is nothing steamboat can do until they deliver.

I have several thousand dollars riding on this, knew the risks and am pissed too, but steamboat is not the issue and has run the group buy well so far.

But that's not the issue, the issue is steamboat not answering support requests and changes for assembly and chips orders. That's what I understand.

[s40ward]

I'm not looking to add blame but I have been waiting about a week for a response to a support ticket...

[ibminer]

I think some others in the thread have it correct that people (including myself) are not happy with Yifu/Avalon and are passing some of aggravation onto steamboat... because there isn't really anything substantial  we/I can do. I am not an Avalon customer. I am a customer of Steamboat / LiquidSynergyDesigns.

If I were SB, personally, I would be updating every other day (just to let people know I am alive... and haven't been abducted by Yifu's mobsters that are threatening him & his team.     the 'last active' stat isn't really an indication that steamboat is reading anything or that he is even following the situation, which I personally believe he is).  That being said, once a week is probably a more reasonable request for some type of update... which he has somewhat stuck to at this point:

August 10th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2905814#msg2905814
August 6th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2880583#msg2880583
August 6th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2879416#msg2879416
July 27th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2815997#msg2815997
July 25th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2804234#msg2804234

continued... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15737;sa=showPosts

I would expect an update from SB soon (this week), if he follows his same pattern. He has also recently stated that they are operating with a 'skeleton crew' until the chips arrive, so again, not sure what resources he has - what his workload is - how many messages/tickets he is getting right now... etc.

Steamboat has not given any reason up until now for me to doubt him or distrust him... the amount of positive updates he had been doing in the past is keeping me happy that he does care what is going on.

It is odd that he hasn't responded to a PM related to how to make contact with Yifu, based on another forum members ability to actually contact Yifu and have a conversation with him (out of respect, I will not post the number or the user I am talking about, but he has stated in other threads he spoke to Yifu, and I don't really see any reason for this person to lie about it)    I am assuming SB is just backlogged with stuff to do... none of us know what he does on a daily basis, so its hard to speculate what he is doing with his time. He could have over 100 messages in his inbox(es) that he just can't take the time to go through and read.

I completely realize the 'hold up' right now is with Avalon... my concerns are the patterns that steamboat was following during the collection of money phase, his responsiveness/updates/etc... which all seemed to slow down... but maybe this is related to the 'skeleton crew' comment, and just a lack of resources/time. Prior to my recent PM about Yifu, it took SB 4 days to respond to an email - which was unusual to me, because I am used to a 24-48 hour response, but I was happy to get a response eventually.

In the end, I am criticizing something I don't have many facts about, and do not have enough knowledge to have any type of accurate speculation... but any level of disdain with LSD's customers would likely be rectified by SB soon. It is concerning to see other users stating they haven't gotten responses to support tickets for over a week... but not sure this is a reason to drop all of the trust that has been built up so far with SB.

[ryepdx]

Hey guys, chill out. I'm vouching for Steamboat on this. My assembly service needed heatsinks and PICs. He was able to send both. In all my interactions with him via PM, he's never been anything but professional and polite. If he's being quiet, it most likely has to do with the volume of business he's doing and how few people he has to do it with.

Just my 20 mBTC. I'm tired of seeing page after page of fruitless hand-wringing on this thread.

[bigbeninlondon]

what the hell do u want steamboat to tell u ? he's waiting for chips and thats it .. wtf is so hard to understand ?

For one i want to know the procedure of how to transfer my order to someone else. That the chips are not here yet doesn't mean he doesn't have to sit on his ass and do nothing. He needs to respond to my messages, is that so hard to get through your skull? It's his god damn duty, for he is PAID to provide these services.

Steamboat made it clear he would not be providing mechanisms for transferring your order to someone else.  Did you even fucking read the OP?  Jesus.  You need to read what has ALREADY been posted before asking for updates.  


Edit, just for your convenience:

Can orders be split and/or transferred?
We are not responsible for any splits or transfers negotiated after purchase of the chips, nor will we facilitate any trades.

[Rakessh]

Hey guys, chill out. I'm vouching for Steamboat on this. My assembly service needed heatsinks and PICs. He was able to send both. In all my interactions with him via PM, he's never been anything but professional and polite. If he's being quiet, it most likely has to do with the volume of business he's doing and how few people he has to do it with.

Just my 20 mBTC. I'm tired of seeing page after page of fruitless hand-wringing on this thread.

+1 I too follow this thread for actual news and information, but all I find are angry people with pitchforks. I think people need to calm down.

Maybe some are angry they made a bad investment (that is probably obvious by now) and want someone to direct that anger at, but spewing anger like that instead of drawing experience from what has happened, will be pointless. It seems for some, violent or legal 'revenge' is the only solution for them. ( just remembered someone who had to do with chips said someone had threatened that someones family etc etc. )

If you feel like, that if you were in control of your countrys army, you would use it to exact revenge for your bad investment, you need to sit down and take a deep good look into your inner self, because there are problems, you are wayy too angry.


Edit (And I hear it's even worse in other threads)

[cardcomm]

I was just looking over Avalon's "The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale" again in an effort to determine specifically which terms were breached. It states "30 sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering per 10,000 chips".

I seem to recall that Avalon changed this after the fact to be thirty sample chips total for all orders placed by a single entity. Does anyone know definitively if this group buy received sample chips FOR EACH BATCH of chips ordered, as specified by the terms of sale?

Just curious...

[bigbeninlondon]

I think the 30 sample chips issue was addressed and the original terms applied, but there had been a mixup in shipping to some group buyers.  I don't remember where I saw it addressed though.

[cpengr]

I was just looking over Avalon's "The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale" again in an effort to determine specifically which terms were breached.

9 to 10 weeks lead time.

[ionstorm]

what the hell do u want steamboat to tell u ? he's waiting for chips and thats it .. wtf is so hard to understand ?

For one i want to know the procedure of how to transfer my order to someone else. That the chips are not here yet doesn't mean he doesn't have to sit on his ass and do nothing. He needs to respond to my messages, is that so hard to get through your skull? It's his god damn duty, for he is PAID to provide these services.

Steamboat made it clear he would not be providing mechanisms for transferring your order to someone else.  Did you even fucking read the OP?  Jesus.  You need to read what has ALREADY been posted before asking for updates.  


Edit, just for your convenience:

Can orders be split and/or transferred?
We are not responsible for any splits or transfers negotiated after purchase of the chips, nor will we facilitate any trades.

You beat me to it :-). Yes steamboat has said repetitively he will not transfer ownership, that's your responsibility, so if you'd like to sell your chips and assembly by all means do it and once steamboat ships you the products reship them to whom you sold them to.  Simple.  There is absolutely no reason for steamboat to update us, like I said before.. There are other group buys before us, when we see them get shipping confirmations we can have a better guess when steamboat will receive the same.  Right now do to Yifu and some customs bullshit everything is at a halt.  He also said we would be the first to know any new news.  You'd must be crazy to think he isn't on top of this and trying to get ahold of yifu.  He has far more risk and a bigger stake in this than anyone, so who is hurting more?  Probably steamboat, BTW he is doing us all a favor with his services, so I would be an understanding customer and give him some respect.  I have over 5000 invested in this between family and I but I'm not going to let impatience get the best of me like some people here that cannot read.  Steamboat has answered every one of your questions and there will not be any new information until we get news from Avalon.  Stop being dicks and letting greed and impatience get the best of you. 

[driksson]

That 48k number keeps getting thrown around, but I'm fairly certain that much of that is reinvested into board parts, assembly, staffing, etc. He specifically mentioned batch 1 assembly will be produced at a loss. Yes, we paid a premium for Steamboat's reliability and expertise, but the holdup is at Yifu. Yes, another update would be nice, but if the past in any indication of the present, Steamboat is probably tying up loose ends for assembly and trying to contact Yifu.

Stop being ridiculous. You know what you have with Steamboat, you don't need an obligatory "i'm alive" post. I paid the premium because I didn't want to have to worry about the group buy organizer, a la Ragin.

You cannot be serious. Just because we chose a group buy organizer who does hosting for his clients, we shall all be ok with "he's busy".
It was his choice to invest in hosting and hardware, we cannot be taking additional risk just because some of us joined the group buy he arranged?
Remember, it was really fast call for those who wanted to get hosting+boards, then it was a matter of days to get on board.. And now, we are treated with dead silence.
He took his risk to invest in hardware, based on returns on electricity and share of the mining. The least he can do is hire a support agent from india for $500/m to at least answer emails.
Excuses for others, are feeble, at best.

[ionstorm]

I was just looking over Avalon's "The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale" again in an effort to determine specifically which terms were breached.

9 to 10 weeks lead time.

Lead time does not mean shipping time, that's production time that doesn't include testing and shipping time.  And there are no refunds for chips, that's what we agreed to, so get used to it.

[ionstorm]

That 48k number keeps getting thrown around, but I'm fairly certain that much of that is reinvested into board parts, assembly, staffing, etc. He specifically mentioned batch 1 assembly will be produced at a loss. Yes, we paid a premium for Steamboat's reliability and expertise, but the holdup is at Yifu. Yes, another update would be nice, but if the past in any indication of the present, Steamboat is probably tying up loose ends for assembly and trying to contact Yifu.

Stop being ridiculous. You know what you have with Steamboat, you don't need an obligatory "i'm alive" post. I paid the premium because I didn't want to have to worry about the group buy organizer, a la Ragin.

You cannot be serious. Just because we chose a group buy organizer who does hosting for his clients, we shall all be ok with "he's busy".
It was his choice to invest in hosting and hardware, we cannot be taking additional risk just because some of us joined the group buy he arranged?
Remember, it was really fast call for those who wanted to get hosting+boards, then it was a matter of days to get on board.. And now, we are treated with dead silence.
He took his risk to invest in hardware, based on returns on electricity and share of the mining. The least he can do is hire a support agent from india for $500/m to at least answer emails.
Excuses for others, are feeble, at best.

Dude there is nothing steamboat can say that will make u happy, he has answered all our questions and gave us the answers to everything and stated we would be the first to know any new news.  Shut up and deal with it, you should have known what you got into.  Your repetitive complaints make you look like an idiot.  Go auction off your chips, I'm sure someone else will be happy and understandable if you write out a no bullshit terms of sale.  You guys act like impatient little kids,  be patient.  Its one of those things you should have learned as a child.

[driksson]

That 48k number keeps getting thrown around, but I'm fairly certain that much of that is reinvested into board parts, assembly, staffing, etc. He specifically mentioned batch 1 assembly will be produced at a loss. Yes, we paid a premium for Steamboat's reliability and expertise, but the holdup is at Yifu. Yes, another update would be nice, but if the past in any indication of the present, Steamboat is probably tying up loose ends for assembly and trying to contact Yifu.

Stop being ridiculous. You know what you have with Steamboat, you don't need an obligatory "i'm alive" post. I paid the premium because I didn't want to have to worry about the group buy organizer, a la Ragin.

You cannot be serious. Just because we chose a group buy organizer who does hosting for his clients, we shall all be ok with "he's busy".
It was his choice to invest in hosting and hardware, we cannot be taking additional risk just because some of us joined the group buy he arranged?
Remember, it was really fast call for those who wanted to get hosting+boards, then it was a matter of days to get on board.. And now, we are treated with dead silence.
He took his risk to invest in hardware, based on returns on electricity and share of the mining. The least he can do is hire a support agent from india for $500/m to at least answer emails.
Excuses for others, are feeble, at best.

Dude there is nothing steamboat can say that will make u happy, he has answered all our questions and gave us the answers to everything and stated we would be the first to know any new news.  Shut up and deal with it, you should have known what you got into.  Your repetitive complaints make you look like an idiot.  Go auction off your chips, I'm sure someone else will be happy and understandable if you write out a no bullshit terms of sale.  You guys act like impatient little kids,  be patient.  Its one of those things you should have learned as a child.

Lol.
Updating a thread takes less than a minute.. Even if it is little to no updates..
But jeah, what do one get for $50K these days.
Did you as a kid ever get left without food for an entire day? did you get cranky?
I am sure we are all allowed with our different opinions in terms of what we can expect as service in a group buy.
Its clear that you are more than happy.
Some people are not. I wont say shut up. but i can say deal with it.

I saw your dream calculation by the way, if the difficulty was 175 now, and increase of 20 a month ongoing after.. What in the world would make the increase THAT low? increase last time was 13, in 11 days. You won't roi on these..