Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[Boxman90]

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.


I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:

• A. sit and wait
  That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum
• B. demand full refund
  The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
• C. negotiate for compensation
  While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
• D. legal action
  Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

Hey STEAMBOAT, take an example to this guy. Ffs.

I suggest you get in contact with him ASAP, to rally for option D.

Nobody wants these chips anymore.

Sit-and-wait time is over steamboat. The chips have become worthless before they were even shipped. Time to take some action. Get off your ass. Yes, I have my pitchforks god damn ready this time, to whomever is taking the profits on this botched deal nobody else is profiting from.

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[nightengale]

A little too much vitriol in that last post. But we do need some action and it looks like zefir is moving forward in a reasonable manner. Will you coordinate with him Steamboat?

[Lollaskates]

A little too much vitriol in that last post. But we do need some action and it looks like zefir is moving forward in a reasonable manner. Will you coordinate with him Steamboat?

I too think Steamboat needs to work with Zefir to get the best results

[eroxors]

A little too much vitriol in that last post. But we do need some action and it looks like zefir is moving forward in a reasonable manner. Will you coordinate with him Steamboat?

I would also like to see some cooperation between groupbuy organizers. My guess is SB will post an update tomorrow or Friday. Some compensation from Yifu should be discussed. Personally, I still want my K16s, even if ROI is as low as ~70%. Let's not forget that SB bears no responsibility for Avalon's inability to provide the chips in a timely manner, we would all do well to revisit the first few posts in the thread.

[ionstorm]

Agree with Zefir - refund or compensation. Compensation from some one such as Yifu doesn't mean much though.

Its go time guys, the time has passed and Avalon has knowingly screwed us into oblivion.  I vote for compensation or refund, if they do not comply, fuck it use my fees or profits to sue them into the ground.

[ibminer]

Let's here what you have to say for yourself, Yifu.  

Last Active:   Today at 06:36:26 PM


EDIT:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3030660#msg3030660

[ionstorm]

A little too much vitriol in that last post. But we do need some action and it looks like zefir is moving forward in a reasonable manner. Will you coordinate with him Steamboat?

I would also like to see some cooperation between groupbuy organizers. My guess is SB will post an update tomorrow or Friday. Some compensation from Yifu should be discussed. Personally, I still want my K16s, even if ROI is as low as ~70%. Let's not forget that SB bears no responsibility for Avalon's inability to provide the chips in a timely manner, we would all do well to revisit the first few posts in the thread.

I have to agree with this, I'd still like assembled boards even if roi is 70% because it would still be more than possible compensation or just a chip refund since we already paid for assembly.  But if the best calculations say we won't meet 50% roi then maybe we should consider alternative measures.

[ibminer]

In case anyone is missing this horrow show
He speaks:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3030660#msg3030660

And is going to now make a 'refund form'...

[ionstorm]

My thinking is that if we keep calling him, leaving him voicemails and pressuring him to address the issues he will step up.

How long before he changes phone number?

spiccioli

that number stopped forwarding a while ago, since people are so hell bend on thinking we are selling chips to somebody in china first I'll address that.

there is a lot of people who bought chips purely for reselling, however the stock is 10k or so at most like all the other orders. I hope people did not think only people outside of china bought Avalon chips. ( out of the 800k chips, more than 50% are chinese orders.)

In addition, these resellers only have small quantity of chips ( since we didn't ship that many yet.) whether is alibaba or the chinese forums, I'd love to see anyone make a large purchase from these "resellers", because they simply do not have the chips, despise what they may advertise.

In other news, we are shipping as per usual like our last update and are doing the best we could but probably simply going to offer full refund soon, I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

BTW this yifus piss poor status update.

[sprint347]

Steamboat now that Yifu is offering chip refunds, and you've previously said you haven't got stock to fulfil all of the miner orders, can you make arrangements for refunds?

I'm happy for you to keep the reseller profit on the chips themselves as compensation.

[BitCsByBit]

I will accept a full refund!

[Boxman90]

... are doing the best we could but probably simply going to offer full refund soon, I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

Steamboat, go for the full refund on Batch 4, please.

Everyone from batch 4, quote this message with +1 and add the number of chips in your order.

Code:

Current Batch 4 chip-orders opting for full refund:

- Boxman90 - 219 chips

Total refund request on Batch 4: 219 chips

[ionstorm]

I want my chips and compensation, steamboat cannot refund us everything,so it would be best to request compensation and have miners recoup some percentage of roi

[Boxman90]

I want my chips and compensation, steamboat cannot refund us everything,so it would be best to request compensation and have miners recoup some percentage of roi

Maybe the quote was not clear enough. Yifu just stated he's going to offer full refunds on chip batch orders. So needless to say, I'm opting for steamboat to get a full refund on batch 4  from Yifu, so he can refund us.

[rocks]

Steamboat,

Yifu's sudden reappearance and comments point to the fact that it is slowly dawning on Yifu that if Zefir moves ahead with legal action, he is in significant trouble. The FBI took pirate down and will easily take Yifu down over this $15M "business".

This shows he only responds to pressure at this point. I strongly recommend you join Zefir and take proactive action to either get a better deal than late no-ROI chips, or a full refund. Without pressure he will not do anything for us and we are left closer and closer to a full loss.

I understand the hesitation and desire to hold back so that he does not put you on a 'black list' of last to deliver, but at this point holding back just let's him screw you more and more.

[ajk]

Agree with everyone agreeing on refunds, since Yifu is offering this it is obviously a good choice for all involved to take advantage of it,

[powpow]

If the group buy doesn't accept the refund, the chances of actually getting chips are exponentially lower.  I doubt he will submit any orders to have any produced..

[jimrome]

Agree with everyone agreeing on refunds, since Yifu is offering this it is obviously a good choice for all involved to take advantage of it,

What makes you think he'll actually refund anything?

[BitCsByBit]

Having 6 batches makes it easier for the refunds.

People that wan't refunds get moved to the later batches and then refund the later batches.

People that still want to proceed with the assembly get upgraded to the earlier batches.

People that paid for the assembly but want a refund would loose ~$35 that was spent on the PCB + parts. It could be even less than $35 as some parts could potentially be refunded/resold or used for later projects.

Edit: Batch 4. Yes to a refund.

[Boxman90]

Having 6 batches makes it easier for the refunds.

People that wan't refunds get moved to the later batches and then refund the later batches.

People that still want to proceed with the assembly get upgraded to the earlier batches.

People that paid for the assembly but want a refund would loose ~$35 that was spent on the PCB + parts. It could be even less than $35 as some parts could potentially be refunded/resold or used for later projects.

Sensible idea. Make it a group-refund. Refund batch 6, everyone who wants out gives their spot in earlier batches to people from batch 6 who wanted to stay in.

Either way, steamboat, with all this action you better clarify what you're about to do ASAP. I'd say big update with what you will and won't do within at most the next 24 hours.