Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[vs3]

I'm just saying Technically that could be argued in court from Avalon, people have clearly misread what "lead time" means, it does not clearly state when they will be shipped, so its at their discretion.  The only way I see it is if we/you/us could prove they have mislead us or prove that any of their recently revealed news is false we would have a fighting chance in court. 

For anyone that has never fought a long drawn out battle in court, please listen to ionstorm.  Yes, you feel you've been wronged by Avalon, but proving it in court is different matter entirely.
 

So to sit and wait is preferred? 

IF chips get delivered as you hope by waiting and by the time the manufacturers get them to us, they produce basically nothing; how is that better than a drawn out legal battle that recoups my chip investment? YiFu gets nothing and we get back some/all of what we invested. Waiting is for losers, that's why we all got in as soon as we could for "open source" chips from the friendly Avalon corp.  You can't "wait" in the world of Bitcoin. (That does mean you throw caution aside though.)

Look, it means you've made a bad investment and your money is lost. Going the legal way is just going to make it worse for you and everyone else.

You can try and "apply pressure", but that's not going to happen in a tribunal. It could last for years, cost a bunch and they could still decide to bankrupt the company (good luck getting your BTC back).

So, keep your cool, find alternative solutions. If Avalon doesn't come up with a way to make nice with its customers, they're history. Take what consolation you can from that.

If you feel you must cut your losses, do so. Invest in something that will bring you a safe, decent return.

+1

This has always been a very risky adventure and everyone knew that.  Invest only as much as you're willing to lose.

As for the court stuff - forget about it. It's next to impossible (like suing YiFu in HK according to US laws?) and will be a waste of your money (unless you're a lawyer in which case you will be making money from the other losers and still not making BTCs).

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[Rakessh]

+1

This has always been a very risky adventure and everyone knew that.  Invest only as much as you're willing to lose.

As for the court stuff - forget about it. It's next to impossible (like suing YiFu in HK according to US laws?) and will be a waste of your money (unless you're a lawyer in which case you will be making money from the other losers and still not making BTCs).

BitSynCom is a US company, and YiFi/BitSynCom would be sued in the US, not in China or HK, or Taiwan or whatever.

But I agree, it would be a bloody waste. Maybe after the dust settles some civil class action for damages can be done. But doing anything right now will most likely be futile.

[cpengr]

You can try and "apply pressure", but that's not going to happen in a tribunal. It could last for years, cost a bunch and they could still decide to bankrupt the company (good luck getting your BTC back).

If Yifu is really full of shit as it appears, then this would be a better outcome than letting them continue to do business.

If you feel you must cut your losses, do so. Invest in something that will bring you a safe, decent return.

That is not cutting my losses--unless you want to buy my chips and assembly back from me at cost, so I can go invest those funds elsewhere.

[cpengr]

if the chips are proven to be with customs there really is no breach of contract and its out of yifu's hands

Except, his update said: "there is currently ~200k chips stuck in custom right at this moment for about 2 weeks now".

How many chips have been ordered? Isn't this a small portion of the number of chips ordered, like 20%?

Even if 200k accounted for all of the chips that have been delayed to date, 2 weeks doesn't account for the whole time. Steamboat's batch 1 is what, 6 weeks late and counting?

Also, as others have said, when you run a business, it's your responsibility to know (or learn how) to deal with these things, and get your products to your customers in a timely fashion. For example, maybe Yifu didn't file some paperwork properly--in which case, even the customs delay could be his fault.

[Xian01]

Reading reports of other group buys getting their sample chips. Here's being cautiously optimistic Steamboat sees something arrive soon.

[driksson]

+1
This has always been a very risky adventure and everyone knew that.  Invest only as much as you're willing to lose.
As for the court stuff - forget about it. It's next to impossible (like suing YiFu in HK according to US laws?) and will be a waste of your money (unless you're a lawyer in which case you will be making money from the other losers and still not making BTCs).

Thank you for the motherly lesson, very well received. For me, i'm never interested in investing anything that I am willing to loose. If I invest, I do so based on trust most of the times, and trust is created due to past experience or past business that I was informed about, but never took part of (avalon batch 1-2). This agreement was based on 9-10 weeks delivery time, with sample chips after 4 weeks. They are in breach of contract and should pay for it.
And to inform you. Bitsyncom LLC is an american company, abiding by American Laws and regulations.

[driksson]

Reading reports of other group buys getting their sample chips. Here's being cautiously optimistic Steamboat sees something arrive soon.

Optimistic? If he gets samples, its for batch 1. Past due six weeks. This would then render any other batch 100% useless for anyone receiving them.

[KS]

That is not cutting my losses--unless you want to buy my chips and assembly back from me at cost, so I can go invest those funds elsewhere.

That would not be cutting your losses, that would mean neutral ROI for you and negative ROI for me.  

Your chips + assembly are/will be worth between 25 and 50% what you paid for them. The closer we get to September, the lower the value (assuming KNCMINER et al. ship en masse by then).

It's almost pennies to the dollar time.

[KS]

Reading reports of other group buys getting their sample chips. Here's being cautiously optimistic Steamboat sees something arrive soon.

Samples are 6 weeks in, no? That would mean only two times "two more weeks". Unless everything was stuck in customs at the same time.

[iCEBREAKER]

Reading reports of other group buys getting their sample chips. Here's being cautiously optimistic Steamboat sees something arrive soon.

Good news everyone, some of our lost chips have been recovered and are en route to Mogadishu!   

[Boxman90]

Is nobody noticing that steamboat is just full-on REFUSING to post in here, answer questions and keep us up-to-date? Look at his profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15737. He's online all the god damn time.

He doesn't reply here
He doesn't reply to PM's
He doesn't reply to mails.

Now where have we seen this before, huh, i wonder... 

[bigbeninlondon]

Is nobody noticing that steamboat is just full-on REFUSING to post in here, answer questions and keep us up-to-date? Look at his profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15737. He's online all the god damn time.

He doesn't reply here
He doesn't reply to PM's
He doesn't reply to mails.

Now where have we seen this before, huh, i wonder... 

What do you want him to say?  He's already said that the course of action is to wait and see.  There is nothing new to report from 4 days ago.

[BitCsByBit]

A bunch of different group buys have received some sample chips today.

[sprint347]

What order # is the assembly website up to now?

[bitcoiner49er]

I'm just saying Technically that could be argued in court from Avalon, people have clearly misread what "lead time" means, it does not clearly state when they will be shipped, so its at their discretion.  The only way I see it is if we/you/us could prove they have mislead us or prove that any of their recently revealed news is false we would have a fighting chance in court. 

For anyone that has never fought a long drawn out battle in court, please listen to ionstorm.  Yes, you feel you've been wronged by Avalon, but proving it in court is different matter entirely.
 

So to sit and wait is preferred? 

IF chips get delivered as you hope by waiting and by the time the manufacturers get them to us, they produce basically nothing; how is that better than a drawn out legal battle that recoups my chip investment? YiFu gets nothing and we get back some/all of what we invested. Waiting is for losers, that's why we all got in as soon as we could for "open source" chips from the friendly Avalon corp.  You can't "wait" in the world of Bitcoin. (That does mean you throw caution aside though.)

Look, it means you've made a bad investment and your money is lost. Going the legal way is just going to make it worse for you and everyone else.

You can try and "apply pressure", but that's not going to happen in a tribunal. It could last for years, cost a bunch and they could still decide to bankrupt the company (good luck getting your BTC back).

So, keep your cool, find alternative solutions. If Avalon doesn't come up with a way to make nice with its customers, they're history. Take what consolation you can from that.

If you feel you must cut your losses, do so. Invest in something that will bring you a safe, decent return.

I love this line of thinking.  "I made a bad investment." ROFL, wut? A proven technology, with thousands of chips already produced, open source documentation for the DIY builds and community support. Look, I did only invest as much as I was willing to lose; that is not the point here though. EVERYONE came through with their end of the deal from BKK, to burnin, to Bricknelski, to Sensei, to steamboat, to zefir, to on and on and on. No one here dropped the ball (maybe Terrhash was a little anxious, but...). The simple fact that our chips did not get shipped to us in the "No BS" lead time IS the issue.
"Oh, I just made a bad investment. Oh well." Is complete BS! "I'll just sit and wait." Really? Can I borrow 10 BTC? Your demeanor is so passive that I really won't worry about paying you back. That is exactly what you/we are telling YiFu. "You didn't live up to your end of the agreement? Oh *pats YiFu's back* it's OK. I only invested what I was willing to lose. Better luck next time, hey?" 
Legal action is something that WILL get people's attention. Why should YiFu be allowed to get off with no consequences? Sure, future business may be affected. Although IF there is a legit, proven Avalon 2 Gen that is not a pre-order; don't you think that people will flock to it?
Many times, companies settle out of court as well. Personally I think that BitSyncom/YiFu would need to quickly reconsider under strong legal action.

[KS]

You're right, it sucks.

I've been to court and guess what, you mostly lose money and time, on the oft chance that once you get what you lost back. But mostly, you just lose time and money.

A class action would be something different, but that would only be for revenge's sake as you will probably not see a penny/satoshi.

[Xian01]

Fuck me for trying to be a bit optimistic, huh ?

Please, resume your stewing and smoldering then.

Toodaloo !

Steamboat, hang in there bro.

[ionstorm]

Well a ups cargo jet crashed today, hopefully our chips were not on it.

[bitcoiner49er]

Well a ups cargo jet crashed today, hopefully our chips were not on it.

FTFY. Instant refund if they were. Does DHL use UPS freight?

[ik2013]

Well a ups cargo jet crashed today, hopefully our chips were not on it.

FTFY. Instant refund if they were. Does DHL use UPS freight?

DHL has their own planes...