Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[koob]

All those 103 BTC transactions look like Batch 3.

Yeh, those are batch#3 refunds.

[kibblesnbits]

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right.  GPUs were the great equalizer.  Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment.  Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies.  The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship.  Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need.  Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped.  With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again.  I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC.   Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI.  The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price.  AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days.  AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

True, it's business as usual in the bitcoin mining world. With the exception of a few folks in the DIY community on this site, everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. It's actually pretty sad.

BFL, Avalon, and ASICMiner are some of the worst ripoff offenders, and don't even get me started on folks who auction off ASICs on ebay and this site.

I'll reiterate.  ASICMINER, so far, has always delivered product on-hand and on-time.  Don't lump them in with BFL and Avalon.  Also, just as long as bid-shilling isn't happening, auctions are the best way to find the true value/price of anything.  If someone wants to spend $1,000 for a Beanie Baby or $1,000,000 for a Picasso, that's the value.  The BTC community set the high prices on AM devices, not friedcat.

[lemonte]

[bitcoiner49er]

Bunch of new tx's coming through

https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

All those 103 BTC transactions look like Batch 3.

That is good! YiFu is following through. I know we've all been clamoring to see something happen, so let's give him the moment to make it better.

[kendog77]

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right.  GPUs were the great equalizer.  Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment.  Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies.  The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship.  Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need.  Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped.  With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again.  I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC.   Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI.  The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price.  AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days.  AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

True, it's business as usual in the bitcoin mining world. With the exception of a few folks in the DIY community on this site, everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. It's actually pretty sad.

BFL, Avalon, and ASICMiner are some of the worst ripoff offenders, and don't even get me started on folks who auction off ASICs on ebay and this site.

I'll reiterate.  ASICMINER, so far, has always delivered product on-hand and on-time.  Don't lump them in with BFL and Avalon.  Also, just as long as bid-shilling isn't happening, auctions are the best way to find the true value/price of anything.  If someone wants to spend $1,000 for a Beanie Baby or $1,000,000 for a Picasso, that's the value.  The BTC community set the high prices on AM devices, not friedcat.

The main reason that monopolies are illegal is because buyers get screwed and sellers can essentially charge whatever they want. ASICMiner essentially had a monopoly on in hand ASIC mining hardware that ships immediately for the last six months, so they could rip buyers off.

I still don't believe a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware at ASICMiner prices and mined with it made their investment in bitcoin back. Can you point to a single example of where a buyer of ASICMiner hardware got a good deal and achieved ROI by mining? I can't.

The only reason they lowered their prices of blades and USB miners to more reasonable levels recently (but they are still bitcoin losers in my opinion) is because of exploding difficulty and increased competition.

[jspielberg]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

[kibblesnbits]

The main reason that monopolies are illegal is because buyers get screwed and sellers can essentially charge whatever they want. ASICMiner essentially had a monopoly on in hand ASIC mining hardware that ships immediately for the last six months, so they could rip buyers off.

I still don't believe a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware at ASICMiner prices and mined with it made their investment in bitcoin back. Can you point to a single example of where a buyer of ASICMiner hardware got a good deal and achieved ROI by mining? I can't.

The only reason they lowered their prices of blades and USB miners to more reasonable levels recently (but they are still bitcoin losers in my opinion) is because of exploding difficulty and increased competition.

You're completely wrong, maybe you don't understand how auctions work.  AM had in-hand equipment for immediate sale.  Friedcat stated that a small number of blades would be placed for auction to determine the price.  People in that initial purchase paid I believe between 70-75 BTC for the privilege for being first.  Another set of auctions for larger amounts of blades, people paid around 50 BTC (me included).  I believed that was a fair price for the difficulty, device hash rate, power, size, etc.  AM did not set the high price.  AM did not essentially "charge what they want".  

[dnaleor]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

What you gonna do with useless chips with no possible ROI ?

[guitar82]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

What you gonna do with useless chips with no possible ROI ?

Some of us are out a lot of money with no chips. At least the option of getting most of it back is better than half of our money.

[Min€r]

Yifu should look after the hardware builders - they have now massive troubles with their clients finally. They ordered a lot of parts, worked a lot, build their own miners and now all damage is unloaded to them. This are maximum 10 people/companies at all I think here in this community, so hope they get a nice deal as otherwise nobody would build next generation miners with your chips. I am sure talking with them can get some solutions out and maybe most parts could be reused later.

[eve]

Full Refund Now!

[macpoker79]

Full Refund Now!

+1 and please promptly to Sebastians Group Buy

[Pompobit]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

Do you have a 10k order for yourself or you joined some group buy? In the second case, I don't think it is possible to split orders and ask for a refund only for a part of them

[dnaleor]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

Do you have a 10k order for yourself or you joined some group buy? In the second case, I don't think it is possible to split orders and ask for a refund only for a part of them

unless, what some group buys seems to do:
they will just offer refunds on a first come first served base; the reversed process of ordering chips:
once 10000 chips total are asked for a refund, they will ask for a refund and so one.

[rebelrat]

Anyone want to sell their group buy chips at .06 per chip?  If they do refund I get a little profit for my risk, if they don't then you came out better than you would have.  Let me know if any interest?

here come the buzzards

[wrenchmonkey]

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

"Malformed by greed" is indeed a correct assessment. Whose greed? To call upon the childhood rhyme; "The one who smelt it, dealt it." It's not the miners/buyers who have toxified the environment, Yifu. It's sellers like you who don't know the first thing about running a legitimate business and maintaining a solid reputation, by doing the things they say they'll do.

This isn't Alibaba, where you bullshit your way through a deal, deliver something only marginally similar to what you agreed to, and then disappear to do it again under a different username. I know that's what your culture is accustomed to, but you're trying to play in an arena where that model just isn't gonna cut it.

Want to play in the arena where professionalism counts? Start by learning the definition. "Professionalism: Results, on demand, for pay." Nobody gives a fuck about your 'chi' or your hair, or your emotional needs. If you want somebody to tend to your emotions and 'chi', get a girlfriend.

The only thing that the world cares about about are results. Somebody provides you money, you provide results. If you can't provide results, you don't have what it takes to be a professional.

You already got the pay, you've got the demand. Turn over some fucking results, because that part (YOUR part) is the part that's missing from the equation here.

Maybe you thought this community made you a millionaire because they liked your personality? Sorry, but that's not the case. This community made you a millionaire because they actually expect your to deliver on your promises.

'Coffee is for closers'.

If you can't hack it, go be a barista at some hipster-run coffee joint, and serve coffee to the 'closers' who do have what it takes. That ought to give you PLENTY of time to focus on your 'chi'. 

[eroxors]

Anyone want to sell their group buy chips at .06 per chip?  If they do refund I get a little profit for my risk, if they don't then you came out better than you would have.  Let me know if any interest?

here come the buzzards

Hardly, more like an investment firm buying risky mortgages.  No one is forcing anyone, if you want a guaranteed payout instead of a chance, take the service, if you want to wait for one of Yifu's oh so famous soon to come refunds, then sit tight.  Makes no difference to me, and hardly buzzard like.  I am not offering next to nothing for the chips, in fact, if they ship I would lose a lot of money, so it is quite a gamble for me as well, and taking a small profit from that gamble, in my opinion is totally justified.

Take your opinion/ad elsewhere. This thread is for ranting about how much money Yifu has cost us, not how you can profit off of the situation. 

[Adelex]

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

"Malformed by greed" is indeed a correct assessment. Whose greed? To call upon the childhood rhyme; "The one who smelt it, dealt it." It's not the miners/buyers who have toxified the environment, Yifu. It's sellers like you who don't know the first thing about running a legitimate business and maintaining a solid reputation, by doing the things they say they'll do.

This isn't Alibaba, where you bullshit your way through a deal, deliver something only marginally similar to what you agreed to, and then disappear to do it again under a different username. I know that's what your culture is accustomed to, but you're trying to play in an arena where that model just isn't gonna cut it.

Want to play in the arena where professionalism counts? Start by learning the definition. "Professionalism: Results, on demand, for pay." Nobody gives a fuck about your 'chi' or your hair, or your emotional needs. If you want somebody to tend to your emotions and 'chi', get a girlfriend.

The only thing that the world cares about about are results. Somebody provides you money, you provide results. If you can't provide results, you don't have what it takes to be a professional.

You already got the pay, you've got the demand. Turn over some fucking results, because that part (YOUR part) is the part that's missing from the equation here.

Maybe you thought this community made you a millionaire because they liked your personality? Sorry, but that's not the case. This community made you a millionaire because they actually expect your to deliver on your promises.

'Coffee is for closers'.

If you can't hack it, go be a barista at some hipster-run coffee joint, and serve coffee to the 'closers' who do have what it takes. That ought to give you PLENTY of time to focus on your 'chi'. 

+5

[Dunkelheit667]

Yifu, to exercise professionalism fill out this form:

I will deliver all April chip orders until...
I will deliver all May chip orders until...
I will deliver all June chip orders until...
I will deliver all July chip orders until...