Official Thread: AMT

[ISAWHIM]

You can represent yourselves, without a lawyer...

There is also settlements "out of court", which usually have a "hush order" or "choke/gag order" stipulation along with it. (Breaking that would violate the terms, and put you back on the defense.)

But, you better have all your "evidence" collected and in order, before presenting it to a judge, for potential prosecution. (Posts, emails, dates, locations, claims, invoices.)

I'll just wait. I have a few more weeks of grace. The only thing keeping me holding-on is the release of bitmine.ch miners themselves, and the production I have confirmed with PNC. That, and they said my order isn't due to be shipped until the end of this month. (I believe that was my expected ship-estimate.)

I'd rather have that MPP/CPP adjusted miner, than have a return at this point. But... The money would be nice to get BTC directly... I am in the air on that one... (Knowing that all these 1.2THs miners are about to be unleashed, driving up the value of BTC again... It is a tight choice. Then I could sell my new thermal imager too! I'll live with my old one. lol.)

P.S. There is also the "local sheriff" you could call... For starting a "concerned complaint", with all the other members who could add to that list. (It all starts local. That would also give you the peace of mind or further information you need for going forward.)

P.P.S. You guys should have joined our skype session...

[athgaurd]

I called Gentle Dental and they said Long and Foster is the name of the company that is right across the street and they have never heard of AMT or Advanced Miners.

Eagle National Bank Branch however has heard of them and told me that AMT is a customer of theirs, I asked if she has seen a sign out front and she has told me that she has not.
This is the first time I have hear that someone local has actually heard of AMT.

Saxby coffee has never heard of them either with the exception that there was a kid about a week ago that was frantically looking for AMT and couldn't find them and told them he was trying to get his money back from the company, after they told him they didn't know anything about it, the kid left and never came back so they didn't know the end result. I asked the same question on if they had seen an AMT sign out front and he told me that it was just an apartment complex, but he would ask around and see if there was any additional info they could give me.

It is strange that the people that have said they have visited the place have not shown pictures/taken pictures, I would assume if you got to meet the mythical Jim you would take a picture with him in his natural habitat surrounded by several computers and not have the ability to send off mass emails to all your customers with status updates.

I am against calling the neighbors but when someone has thousands of my money, regardless of whether I can afford it or not, I will take almost any step necessary to either get my money back or my promised product.

[ISAWHIM]

It is strange that the people that have said they have visited the place have not shown pictures/taken pictures, I would assume if you got to meet the mythical Jim you would take a picture with him in his natural habitat surrounded by several computers and not have the ability to send off mass emails to all your customers with status updates.

There is a video a few posts back, a visit to the office used for orders and contact stage area. However, it ended at the door to the office.

Apparently, the entire staff, except one individual, is all working on assembly, at an undisclosed assembly plant. (Apparently, the one guy not working, who should be answering knocks at that door, is not where they think he is.)

[FrictionlessCoin]

and the production I have confirmed with PNC. That, and they said my order isn't due to be shipped until the end of this month. (I believe that was my expected ship-estimate.)

How did you get this confirmation from PNC?

Is there a contact number?   Can you confirm that PNC is actually manufacturing AMT boards?

[ISAWHIM]

and the production I have confirmed with PNC. That, and they said my order isn't due to be shipped until the end of this month. (I believe that was my expected ship-estimate.)

How did you get this confirmation from PNC?

Is there a contact number?   Can you confirm that PNC is actually manufacturing AMT boards?

I did, and I have... The number is on the website, but they don't need hundreds of calls. You can just look at the logo on the boards they stamped on. But if you must, then call. (Gotta be a little deceitful about how you "obtain that information." That is all I will say about that. )

I posted the information you need to know, two or three posts back. Last night.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.msg5540857#msg5540857

That was my contribution to the detective-work.

Nice solid company by the way... "PNC INC." (Not sure if they are doing just the PCB design or all the actual SMT assembly for them. But they do have that extra ability. Wasn't going to blow my cover. I got what I wanted to hear, and ran.)

P.S. They are not in Bulgaria.

[FrictionlessCoin]

and the production I have confirmed with PNC. That, and they said my order isn't due to be shipped until the end of this month. (I believe that was my expected ship-estimate.)

How did you get this confirmation from PNC?

Is there a contact number?   Can you confirm that PNC is actually manufacturing AMT boards?

I did, and I have... The number is on the website, but they don't need hundreds of calls. You can just look at the logo on the boards they stamped on. But if you must, then call. (Gotta be a little deceitful about how you "obtain that information." That is all I will say about that. )

I posted the information you need to know, two or three posts back. Last night.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.msg5540857#msg5540857

That was my contribution to the detective-work.

Nice solid company by the way... "PNC INC." (Not sure if they are doing just the PCB design or all the actual SMT assembly for them. But they do have that extra ability. Wasn't going to blow my cover. I got what I wanted to hear, and ran.)

P.S. They are not in Bulgaria.

That is quite good detective work!  Much better than a lot of clowns in this thread.

Just to be clear,  you had some confirmation that they indeed did the PCB design for AMT?   

Years ago I used to build digital logic boards, back then it was quite simple to do.  So I'm not really sure what the complication would be with these Coincraft A1 chips.  I know the signalling outside the chip isn't that fast so I'm not sure why the PCB would be difficult to manufacture.

[ISAWHIM]

Just to be clear,  you had some confirmation that they indeed did the PCB design for AMT?    

Years ago I used to build digital logic boards, back then it was quite simple to do.  So I'm not really sure what the complication would be with these Coincraft A1 chips.  I know the signalling outside the chip isn't that fast so I'm not sure why the PCB would be difficult to manufacture.

I'll admit that I am satisfied with my findings. (One stranger to another, in public.)

Not sure, but these might be 3/4-layer boards. I would have to see them through a light-source to tell. (or at-least see the other side of the board, looking at the through-hole positions, to see if they connect to something in another layer that is not the top or bottom.)

It is not that they are difficult, I imagine, but volume and limitations to the machines needed to do all the additional work... Is expensive... Silk-screening, solder-bath, SMT-screening, SMT-reflowing, then QC and QA...

Still seems they have some manual soldering to do, after the reflow-process... Connectors, Leds, Wires... Those are all missing on the photo they show, of the boards they have "in hand".

Not to mention the PSU change and shortages.

Ok, off to work now... Going to try and locate some other stuff I saw of interest in the photo's. (I trust photo's over statements. )

P.S. I am not the only one doing this research. I have two minions by my side, who are not members here. lol. They are not that brave.

[sirminesalot]

Just to be clear,  you had some confirmation that they indeed did the PCB design for AMT?    

Years ago I used to build digital logic boards, back then it was quite simple to do.  So I'm not really sure what the complication would be with these Coincraft A1 chips.  I know the signalling outside the chip isn't that fast so I'm not sure why the PCB would be difficult to manufacture.

I'll admit that I am satisfied with my findings. (One stranger to another, in public.)

Not sure, but these might be 3/4-layer boards. I would have to see them through a light-source to tell. (or at-least see the other side of the board, looking at the through-hole positions, to see if they connect to something in another layer that is not the top or bottom.)

It is not that they are difficult, I imagine, but volume and limitations to the machines needed to do all the additional work... Is expensive... Silk-screening, solder-bath, SMT-screening, SMT-reflowing, then QC and QA...

Still seems they have some manual soldering to do, after the reflow-process... Connectors, Leds, Wires... Those are all missing on the photo they show, of the boards they have "in hand".

Not to mention the PSU change and shortages.

Ok, off to work now... Going to try and locate some other stuff I saw of interest in the photo's. (I trust photo's over statements. )

P.S. I am not the only one doing this research. I have two minions by my side, who are not members here. lol. They are not that brave.

I'm surprised you'd pay AMT for a miner, when you have some fairly decent technical know-how. You should of bought the chips yourself and assembled, especially since based on the photos: AMT apparently sucks at the manufacturing process and QC/QA.

Also the fact that you're going to tear your device down to 'MAKE IT RIGHT'.

That said, we shouldn't have to do any of that: these Miners should be ready to go.

Just as we predicted, whats the whole point of wrapping it all in a case if at the end of the day, the boards need to be pulled out because the case hinders proper cooling? Decisions like these made me realize that AMT isn't as technical as people hoped.

[sirminesalot]

Here is a table of small claims court monetary limits.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html

Anyone that bought 1 miner is covered (under $10,000) - anyone who bought more, might not be able to take this to small claims.

I would imagine class action is the way to go, but I might be wrong: I'm not an attorney!

[sirminesalot]

How do u join the legal proceedings?

If no one else has already done so and filed already.. I gave them 48 hours. In the meantime I'll do the ground work to get something together, I'm not a lawyer by any means though so if there is someone that has a little more legal sense it would be great if they stepped up, but I will start the process up today and move forward with it if I/we don't hear about a definite resolution within 48 hours.

Could we go to a small claims court as a group?

Not sure if this qualifies as SMALL CLAIMS. Cumulatively,  AMT has over $250,000 of our money.

True, but each of your claims is under the limit (most likely). You ordered something, they haven't shipped it and they lied about shipping times. They will lose. Also file the actual complaints with all the relevant organizations, state AG, FTC.
They won't show up to your lawsuit so you will automatically win. Then you hire a collections agency to get it for you.

Even if it goes EXACTLY that way, there is no guarantee that we'll get the money back. They could claim bankruptcy or just 'disappear'.

I think we'd also have to prove it was a deliberate scam: They could argue that they TRIED but had various 'hardware issues' that caused AMT to go out of business. I've seen it before with other pre-order companies.

This is what I was worried about from the beginning.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Here is a table of small claims court monetary limits.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html

Anyone that bought 1 miner is covered (under $10,000) - anyone who bought more, might not be able to take this to small claims.

I would imagine class action is the way to go, but I might be wrong: I'm not an attorney!

PA $12,000 limit... so if you bought 2 miners... you can go to small claims court!!

This looks like where you file:

Magisterial District Court 32-1-25
525 West Chester Pike, Suites 103 & 105
Havertown, PA, 19083
Phone: (610)449-8250

Look here for more details:  http://www.co.delaware.pa.us/consumeraffairs/faqconsumer.html

May I make a complaint against a business?

Letter from Director regarding complaints

Generally, a person may file a complaint with Consumer Affairs against a particular business. To file a complaint, a person must fill out a complaint form* and include with that form copies of all documentation relating to the complaint. The complaint form complete with documentation must be sent to the Consumer Affairs Office at:

County of Delaware
Office of Consumer Affairs
Government Center Building
201 West Front Street
Media, PA 19063

Do Not send the complaint (or a copy of the complaint) directly to the business. Our office will arrange for the business to be provided a copy of the complaint.

Also, it is Strongly Recommended that before you fill out the complaint form and send it to Consumer Affairs, you contact us at (610) 891-4865 to register your complaint. There are some types of cases Consumer Affairs is not responsible for (e.g. cases already in court), and others might need to be referenced to other agencies. By calling Consumer Affairs, our staff can verify that you indeed have a complaint that can be mediated through our office or, if you do not have such a complaint, a staff member may be able to reference you to another agency that can help you. If you do not call before registering your complaint, and if our office cannot provide you with assistance, you may lose valuable time completing inappropriate forms, which could delay final resolution of your complaint.

How long does a complaint take to be resolved?

Unfortunately, we cannot provide a time frame in which your complaint will be settled. Generally, after the initial complaint has been filed, a business has ten days (including weekends but excluding holidays) to respond. After the initial response, our office attempts to mediate an amicable solution. However, how quickly a complaint gets resolved depends upon many factors including how complete documentation of the complaint is, the cooperation of the business, and the amount of complaints filed in our office. Please be assured we will handle your complaint as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What happens if a business refuses to cooperate or what happens if a business does not offer an agreeable settlement?

If a business refuses to cooperate or if an amicable solution is not reached, generally the person who files the complaint must pursue the matter in court (usually Small Claims Court). One of the purposes of Consumer Affairs is to reduce the burden on the Courts through non-binding mediation, and therefore, Consumer Affairs treats lawsuits as a last resort for the consumer. If a case goes to court,  Consumer Affairs provides both the consumer and the business with copies of records relating to our attempts at mediation, upon request.

In addition to the consumer pursuing a claim in court, if our office feels that consumer fraud may be involved, we will forward the file to the Delaware County District Attorney's Office and/or to the Attorney General of Pennsylvania. The District Attorney and/or Attorney General’s office will review the claim to see if it merits further investigation and prosecution.

I am not a resident of Delaware County. May I make a complaint against a business with your office?

In order to file a complaint with the Delaware County Office of Consumer Affairs, one of the two following conditions MUST be met:
The person filing the complaint resides in Delaware County; or
The business against which the complaint is filed must be located in Delaware County.

I represent a business, and I recently had a consumer who failed to uphold his part of the contract (or pay for services rendered, etc). May a business file a complaint against a consumer?

No. Consumer Affairs only processes consumer complaints against businesses. Businesses need to pursue their claims either in court or, if criminal activity is involved (e.g. theft of services), they should contact the appropriate local, state, or federal law enforcement agency.

If you don't get your refund,  send them to small claims court!


How to Sue:  http://www.co.delaware.pa.us/consumeraffairs/HOWTOSUEnew.PDF

[sirminesalot]

do you know what got their attention? my ripoffreport post. when you google amt miners for some reason that website pops up first page. they do not want the bad publicity. here is the thing... josh is trying to make me sound like im being unreasonable. all i wanted was an update! i just wanted Josh to tell me when my miner would be coming and why it was so damn late. he would NOT do it. I have exchanged a LOT of emails with AMT today. They also did not like the idea of me filing a complaint with the FTC.

Let me tell you what AMT thinks. AMT believes we are dumb consumers who made purchases and now find ourselves in some predicament where we need the cash. Josh thinks I need the money because I have some kind of emergency. This could not be farther from the truth. At no point has it ever crossed AMT's mind that someone who gave them $6000 and never heard back from them might be concerned. No No... the dumb people out there made purchases they couldn't afford. AMT is doing nothing wrong. They are working their butts off only to please us. We should be thankful for all the hard work AMT is bestowing on us. I asked Josh if he looked down on everyone or just the people he takes money from.

These guys are so far detached from reality its disturbing. Alyssa sent me an email saying they have issued me a refund.

You know what pissed me off the most today? Josh told me i should "have a heart" when it comes to the reputation of his company. You know what that tells me? He has learned nothing from the months of begging for information I have done. It means nothing to AMT how much stress he has created for others. All he can think about is himself and/or his reputation. Did it ever cross that mind of his that "GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE ALWAYS PAYS OUT IN THE END". he didnt issue (supposedly) me a refund because he felt it was the right thing to do. He is giving me a refund to shut me up. what is wrong with AMT? How could someone so fucking stupid be running this company? How could there be more than 1 idiot responsible for the financial well being of AMT miners? These guys will not make it to the end of the year. This attitude of theirs will show itself in the quality of product they put out. Im just glad I am not getting a miner because I'm afraid of all the trouble i would have trying to get it to run. these guys do not care about you at all - not one bit. i'm done man... put a fork in me.

You might be done, but I assure you: if the members here aren't taken care of, then we will make sure AMT goes under.

As for Joshua Zipkin: we need to make sure he's discredited on the internet completely. HE IS AMT; as much as he'd love you to believe there are all these other 'founders'.

I am going to make sure that JOSHUA ZIPKIN results SCAM when it comes to GOOGLE SEARCH.

[FrictionlessCoin]

do you know what got their attention? my ripoffreport post. when you google amt miners for some reason that website pops up first page. they do not want the bad publicity. here is the thing... josh is trying to make me sound like im being unreasonable. all i wanted was an update! i just wanted Josh to tell me when my miner would be coming and why it was so damn late. he would NOT do it. I have exchanged a LOT of emails with AMT today. They also did not like the idea of me filing a complaint with the FTC.

Let me tell you what AMT thinks. AMT believes we are dumb consumers who made purchases and now find ourselves in some predicament where we need the cash. Josh thinks I need the money because I have some kind of emergency. This could not be farther from the truth. At no point has it ever crossed AMT's mind that someone who gave them $6000 and never heard back from them might be concerned. No No... the dumb people out there made purchases they couldn't afford. AMT is doing nothing wrong. They are working their butts off only to please us. We should be thankful for all the hard work AMT is bestowing on us. I asked Josh if he looked down on everyone or just the people he takes money from.

These guys are so far detached from reality its disturbing. Alyssa sent me an email saying they have issued me a refund.

You know what pissed me off the most today? Josh told me i should "have a heart" when it comes to the reputation of his company. You know what that tells me? He has learned nothing from the months of begging for information I have done. It means nothing to AMT how much stress he has created for others. All he can think about is himself and/or his reputation. Did it ever cross that mind of his that "GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE ALWAYS PAYS OUT IN THE END". he didnt issue (supposedly) me a refund because he felt it was the right thing to do. He is giving me a refund to shut me up. what is wrong with AMT? How could someone so fucking stupid be running this company? How could there be more than 1 idiot responsible for the financial well being of AMT miners? These guys will not make it to the end of the year. This attitude of theirs will show itself in the quality of product they put out. Im just glad I am not getting a miner because I'm afraid of all the trouble i would have trying to get it to run. these guys do not care about you at all - not one bit. i'm done man... put a fork in me.

You might be done, but I assure you: if the members here aren't taken care of, then we will make sure AMT goes under.

As for Joshua Zipkin: we need to make sure he's discredited on the internet completely. HE IS AMT; as much as he'd love you to believe there are all these other 'founders'.

I am going to make sure that JOSHUA ZIPKIN results SCAM when it comes to GOOGLE SEARCH.

I am tired of your unconstructive B.S.   If they don't ship, take them to court... that simple.   A lot of the stuff you talk about isn't actionable information.   

[sirminesalot]

Very curious: if you bought with BTC and a refund is issued via BTC: will it be for the same amount?

Basically: If you bought for 5 BTC in November/December: and in April, you get your 5 BTC refund: you've basically lost money based on the value of BTC.

As I recall, people bought in while BTC value was high: it's dropped quite a bit since then.

Anyone else have some insight on this possibility?

[sirminesalot]

I am tired of your unconstructive B.S.   If they don't ship, take them to court... that simple.   A lot of the stuff you talk about isn't actionable information.  

Yeah, it's called looking out for future investors that might get ripped off like the people in this thread. I doubt you even care about others though. It's funny, this: coming from you. You've been supporting AMT the whole time, and now look where we are.

You're just sour grapes because they didn't come through and therefore support you're fucked up logic of trusting EVERYONE on the internet without good reason.

Besides: all you've been doing is trying to hawk your pre-orders since 50 pages back. I don't feel bad for you one bit. You're self interest has been very apparent this whole thread.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Very curious: if you bought with BTC and a refund is issued via BTC: will it be for the same amount?

Basically: If you bought for 5 BTC in November/December: and in April, you get your 5 BTC refund: you've basically lost money based on the value of BTC.

As I recall, people bought in while BTC value was high: it's dropped quite a bit since then.

Anyone else have some insight on this possibility?

The invoice is quotes in USD.   BTC just happens to be the wire mechanism and has got nothing to do with the actual amount.

How old are you anyway?

[FrictionlessCoin]

I am tired of your unconstructive B.S.   If they don't ship, take them to court... that simple.   A lot of the stuff you talk about isn't actionable information.   

Yeah, it's called looking out for future investors that might get ripped off like the people in this thread. I doubt you even care about others though. It's funny, this: coming from you. You've been supporting AMT the whole time, and now look where we are.

You're just sour grapes because they didn't come through and support you're fucked up logic of trusting EVERYONE on the internet without good reason.

All you've been doing is trying to hawk your pre-orders since 50 pages back. I don't feel bad for you one bit. You're self interest has been very apparent this whole thread.

All the garbage that you've been talking about has been entirely useless.   I don't recall one post of yours that was helpful in any manner.

[athgaurd]

Very curious: if you bought with BTC and a refund is issued via BTC: will it be for the same amount?

Basically: If you bought for 5 BTC in November/December: and in April, you get your 5 BTC refund: you've basically lost money based on the value of BTC.

As I recall, people bought in while BTC value was high: it's dropped quite a bit since then.

Anyone else have some insight on this possibility?

It would be the actual value at the time of the btc because on the receipt they provide you it actually shows the dollar amount, not the btc amount. I have a receipt that shows $6,089 and that is how much I am expecting to get refunded.

[sirminesalot]

I am tired of your unconstructive B.S.   If they don't ship, take them to court... that simple.   A lot of the stuff you talk about isn't actionable information.   

Yeah, it's called looking out for future investors that might get ripped off like the people in this thread. I doubt you even care about others though. It's funny, this: coming from you. You've been supporting AMT the whole time, and now look where we are.

You're just sour grapes because they didn't come through and support you're fucked up logic of trusting EVERYONE on the internet without good reason.

All you've been doing is trying to hawk your pre-orders since 50 pages back. I don't feel bad for you one bit. You're self interest has been very apparent this whole thread.

All the garbage that you've been talking about has been entirely useless.   I don't recall one post of yours that was helpful in any manner.

And where is your helpful information? "Take it to small claims court?" Gee thanks. We would've never figured that one out. You must have a law degree.

We'll see. At the end of the day we'll know whether you've actually helped anyone here, other than AMT: since you've already done your part to rouse up more orders for them and convince everyone they are coming through.

So far (and unfortunately) you've been wrong about everything: Accept it.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Ok... here are the instructions on taking AMT to court:

You may file with a District Justice if you
have a complaint against a person or a store
and wish to recover money totaling less than
$8,000. This limit excludes the cost of the suit
itself; if you win you are entitled to
reimbursement for court cost.

SELECTING DISTRICT COURT
For assistance in finding the correct court, you
can call (610) 565-6990 or (610) 891-4865.

file a complaint on a form, which
you can obtain at the District Court office.
Your name and address.
 Business name and address.
 Amount for which you are suing.
 A short statement of why you believe you
are entitled to the money. Be sure to
provide enough information so that the
person you are suing knows why they are
being sued.

Suits from $4001.00 to $8000.00 – $117.50
Once you have filed the complaint you will
receive a hearing date in the mail. The date
must be between 10 and 60 days from the
date you filed. The law requires that before
the hearing, the other party must receive a
copy of your complaint. This can be done in
two ways:
1. Request that the complaint be sent by
certified mail.
2. Request that a Constable hand deliver
the complaint. There is an additional charge,
but if you win, these costs can be reimbursed.



In short,  have the police deliver the complaint.