Official Thread: AMT

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Interesting. What they call the SIP substrate is what we call an interposer and again, if you want to move heat, make it ceramic. Either ZTA or AlN and the thermal resistance drops to about 1/3-1/2 what an organic substrate gives. Also allows for an even finer pitch for the flip chip bumps that's another story. Putting coms & memory on top may seem bad but they no doubt based the decision on thermal modeling to 'see' where the heat actually goes. Seems they miscalculated a tad.

Also have to wonder how said com and memory circuits appreciate all that EMI coming from directly underneath them..Lots of possible/probable coupling mode there...

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[ISAWHIM]

Putting coms & memory on top may seem bad but they no doubt based the decision on thermal modeling to 'see' where the heat actually goes. Seems they miscalculated a tad.

Also have to wonder how said com and memory circuits appreciate all that EMI coming from directly underneath them..Lots of possible/probable coupling mode there...

Like I said, 92% That might explain the high error-rate, when operating at higher turbo-frequency and voltage. (Higher heat resistance, exhausting through the sensitive CPU and memory, as well as the associated "RF noise", screwing with the data-bits.)

I will be playing with RF-Chokes when I do my review also. (In addition to the thermal review, and the overall design review.) Anything that gets me slightly more valid work, for less effort or the same effort, I am going to try. Also building my own DIY heat-pipes at the moment. Trying Water, Alcohol, Lighter-fluid, and Butane. Not all in one heat-pipe. That is four variations. Not for the faint of heart!)

[NotFuzzyWarm]

heh heh heh... too bad the old Freon liquid heat xfr fluids aren't allowed any more. Could just plunk the whole boards in small tanks of it circulating around like the old Cray computers did. God they were beautiful sitting in their clear sealed temples with their Freon fountains running...

Then again, there HAS to be similar fluids available today. Hmmm...

Oh, and if you happen to have a dead chip around and can decap it, we have an in-house SEM  and high power optical video inspection scope available to see what they did...   If needed under full NDA of couse.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

And folks - check out the Official Bitmine Coincraft miner thread here as well. (you go find it like I did). We are not alone and 'roid rage abounds there as well...

[rik_khaos]

I'd be happy with an S2 and 3 S1 with a power supply that can power them. It would cost about what I paid give me added hashing power. Even if they just bought an S2 and 3 S1 with out the power supply then I get the hashing power and they'd make a bit of money.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I'd be happy with an S2 and 3 S1 with a power supply that can power them. It would cost about what I paid give me added hashing power. Even if they just bought an S2 and 3 S1 with out the power supply then I get the hashing power and they'd make a bit of money.

I've already a while ago sent an email to Jim at ATM with pretty much that exact offer regarding my 520 unit. More than happy to call it even with 3 (and given their current cost 4 would be better) S1's to match the hashing rate I paid for. I get my hashing, they even still get to pocket ~1.5k$ profit from it. Case closed.

[Syke]

AMT has been very clear on the delays, and it's not problems with the chips, etc. Read:

Again, we are shipping, ..., right now we're only getting 10-25 units out a day, we can build/assemble and ship faster if we get some help. Compensation will be given of course.

Delays are due to labor issues and lack of staff.

See, delays are just lack of staff. All you tech-savy people just need to get yourselves to Philly and lend a hand!

[NotFuzzyWarm]

They want to pay my going field rate of $2k US or Bitcoinn-eqiv per-day and we'll talk. Cash or verified BC xfr of course. Paid per-day, 1/2 at noon 1/2 at end of max 14hr day.

Ain't a-gonna help the root problem though: BitMine and their Coincraft A1 rev-1 (I say rev-0.92) chip. My personal and only my personal opinion on the chip based soley on what I have been able to find out and was verified a little earlier on is that the A1 was oversold based solely on unverified - in the real world - design expectations. Being rather familiar with the semi biz I know all too well, unexpected things come up in the 1st revs. Sometimes out and out fatal, others, well call them problematic enough to force a respin based on things learned.

That is, learned from pre-production chips released only to testers...
Not ones sold with the full knowledge that they would be expected to work more or less as spec'd and intended along with the vendor (BitMine) atleast providing proven reference boards to use with them. With the full knowledge that were (are) pre-paid orders expected to be filled with those chips and boards, they have not done this.

Again, just my humble observation on this.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Name:   AMT_miners
Posts:   221
Activity:   168
Position:   Full Member
Date Registered:   September 29, 2013, 03:48:09 AM
Last Active:   March 11, 2014, 12:13:51 PM

"AMT's a silly Twat!"

[Phinnaeus Gage]

i just spoke with Josh Zipkin on the phone. I found his personal cell phone number. We had a nice chat on the phone and he is not happy with me (to say the least how i got his personal cell phone #). I told him to issue me a refund and we will call it a day. No regrets.

Josh are you reading this? Did you get my text?

You have 24hrs. to send me a tracking number.

You want his cousin's phone number? His cousin in the US, that is.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Fact is if you are calling someones personal cell without their permission (or them having given it to you) then you can be nailed for harassment.

I'll take some of that action. Seriously, I will! Let him sue (ha, ha, I speelled it wright) me, whereupon I'll request a jury trial, whereupon further he will have to be present in the courtroom because I'll demand to witness the person that's suing me, otherwise it'll just be some lawyer representing some moniker used on the internet.

Here's the rub. If Joshua Zipkin shows up in court because of the lawsuit he has against me, he'll be met with an angry mob demanding their millions back, whereupon he may not be able to fly back outta the country. Ergo, he won't be suing anybody for harassment.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Rik: You're grasping at straws. Read back, you'll see they threw Clennel under the bus for inquiring about his order.

I'll give it another week before you come to your senses and stop defending AMT at every turn.

Now I get it, everyone in this business is going to freak out about a shifting time tables because profitability is directly linked to when you start operations. But you've seen many companies at this point who are not getting things out on time. We are at stage where we are prefunding the tech with our pre orders. Because that is what they are pre-orders. We made conscious decisions to send money to a company who did not even have the materials in hand to create the product we were purchasing.  

So I'm not going to blow up for no reason when I don't have the machine in my hand the second I want it. I'm not going to blow up when my miner is inevitably delayed by forces beyond the control of the company that I pre-ordered the product from. I don't care for the dishonesty and poor customer service I've seen them give others. But I'm not going to start calling them names and accusing their family members and starting conspiracy theories because none of that helps the situation. If that is defending them at every turn then we have a different definition of defending.

First off no "conscious" decision was made to give money to folks who did not have material in hand. At no time last November did AMT inform me they were waiting on chips. They told me delivery would be first week of January - done. They reassured me miners were shipping currently and everything was under control.

Secondly do you even understand the meaning of the word "inevitable"? I hear you making sense at times but then you make some really retarded comments. Nothing here was "inevitable". All AMT had to do was be up front with some simple facts and not make unrealistic promises. They have only made matters worse with their abysmal customer service or lack there of.

inevitable: as is certain to happen; unavoidably. Because there was a delay in getting the chips from the manufacturer it was "certain to happen" that miners were going to be delayed, and if they are starting from the beginning of the list then my miner would also be "unavoidably" late. They likely gave information that was based on information from their distribution partner. Thier distribution partner got information from the manufacturer. The manufacturer was unable to meet their time frame  (which mind you, has nothing to do with bitmine or amt).

you act as if a delay in the chips was inevitable. This is definitely not the case. NOTHING was inevitable so stop making excuses for AMT. You could try to make the argument the chips arriving are out of their control and you would be correct. However, that means you don't promise people delivery dates the week of chips arriving. Secondly, you don't make delivery promises on chips arriving you dont even have fucking boards for!

As far as doing some research i spoke with AMT at length and they assured me everything was just peachy. Again, stop trying to make excuses for AMT. I don't know what your angle is here but trust me it's not going to get you your miner faster.

I don't act like the delay of chips is inevitable, but I do realize the effect of not getting the materials on time and how that will greatly change the best laid plans. Would it have been smart to build a buffer into their and then delivered early if everything went swimmingly? Of course it would have. When you are shopping for a miner one of the number one things you are going to be looking for is when it ships and the companies know that. So they advertise the earliest possible date that they think that can ship based on getting their materials. If they had built in one or two months of buffertime and advertised with those as the shipping dates would you have even looked at ordering from them? Because that's not just an AMT practice

And why is it you assume I have an angle? It's not like AMT is the only company who has taken pre-orders and did not hit their delivery dates.

Nothing I can do will change what happens with AMT so why would I think I'd get my miner any faster? And hell aren't you making the accusation that they won't ship at all because they are scammers? Shouldn't you have said I don't know what your angle is here but you won't be getting a miner anyway?

I'm not making excuses for amt, stop making excuses for not more thoroughly looking into if they had the chips when you ordered. I asked and was told they'd be in any day, low and behold I put my order in on january 31st and on 2/1 they had received the chips. Still didn't know that as they didn't post the pictures until the end of february for some reason.

If they said they had the chips and were shipping 1.2 th miners then they lied to you, but the burden of proof is going to be on you that they lied over the phone to entice you to make an order. If you are seeking legal action anyway.

Since the post quoted below was never edited, clearly AMT posted the pics on the Feb. 1, 2014 at 4 AM CST, or on the Jan. 31, 2014, at 10 PM, Bulgarian time. Either way, he's claiming the chips arrived on a Friday.

 

If they said they had the chips and were shipping 1.2 th miners then they lied to you, but the burden of proof is going to be on you that they lied over the phone to entice you to make an order.

Pretending Josh Zipkin didn't own a phone, would posting on the internet suffice?

Hey Guys,

Quick update, chips arrived today and will go to full surface mount and assembly on Tuesday. Hoping to get the first AMT1.2's shipped by Friday.

More to come...

[Puppet]

AMT has been very clear on the delays, and it's not problems with the chips, etc. Read:

Yep. Lets also not forget their board has been running fine since January 18th:

We received sample chips in a few weeks ago. Testing is positive and the board is running fine.

[DrGamma]

Googled advancedminers today and got

http://www.advancedminers-clients.com

as the second hit on the first page!

This will truly help future potential customers, the rest of us who sent them money have lost.

[DrGamma]

Here is the thing. There are those that have a right to be angry. But be very careful. While I have Craig on ignore (mostly because he comes off as a huge asshole with anyone that disagrees with him I can see why AMT would not do business with him) I have seen some of his replies quoted. Fact is if you are calling someones personal cell without their permission (or them having given it to you) then you can be nailed for harassment. Considering the amount of information Craig has already posted on Amazon with negative reviews, and various other things in this forum they will nail him to the wall in retaliation whatever the state of their business might be. And if it turns out that they are shipping a product (as there is more evidence in that with the 80GHS and other miners they actually have shipped) then they have a HUGE leg to stand on.

Just sayin harassment of that nature usually draws the attention of the FBI if a business decides they want to pursue that. Especially if it happened across state lines. Otherwise it will be a police raid. But hey take it however you want. If you don't care, then that's on you. Personally I don't think harassment and libel are worth the jailtime (or record) and fines. If you FEEL so strongly they are a scam you need to be able to prove it and so far no one has been able to PROVE anything other than that these people actually exist and are a company. Least nothing substantial that a court would consider as actual proof. They have been shipping products, have laid out terms for preorders. They can show they are not the only ones in the industry in the same boat because of manufacturing and supply. The only thing that anyone here has is conjecture and circumstantial evidence. Not sure what the deal is that you still haven't gotten a refund. But while you get that refund back, its gonna bite you in the ass in a huge way. Honestly sometimes you gotta learn to pick your battles.

In regard that they have a product, I do believe they have something and will be shipping at some point. The question in my mind isn't if but when. But that's just me. Hopefully some people get some of their devices soon and start posting pics, reviews whatever to prove it. I figure for the sake of this thread and others I will do the same. I originally had intended on not but I will post some pics if I get mine early (doubtful as I am pretty much at the ass end of the queue). But in the event it happens, figure contribute. At that point the haters got nothing. Then they truly look like trolls.

If I and others lose my investment over this, because the haters were correct? well they get their ego's stroked and get nothing for it besides the self satisfaction that they were right. Nothing gained nothing lost on their end. Some of the guys here are batshit insane with the stuff they are saying. Some are luckily out of the legal reach of the US court system, but those who aren't? If they deliver you are well and truly fucked. Just sayin. I know if I were Josh I would be coming at you with all barrels once my personal safety gets compromised (because some nutcase customer got my personal cell and called me on it). But its also batshit stuff like that, that might drive them out of the industry altogether as it might not be worth the hassle. Fact is also the silence could be the calm before the shitstorm (for those who have been blatantly libeling them. Fact is they have a HUGE leg to stand on in that front.  Lawyers might have told them stay quiet for their own protection hence the reason why to interact directly with customers. Well It will be interesting to see where this goes once the dust settles. I'm somewhat patient and can understand the manufacturing delays (if that's the case) is not entirely on them. But it would be nice to have some disclosure on it. I have said all this stuff before but it fell on deaf ears. Well not deaf. Just troll ears. I guess in that regard I am trolling the trollers who don't want to hear the truth. Truth isn't what you want it to be, its what is. Oh well.

All said tho if they did communicate a bit better or made some effort to provide general shipping and or engineering updates its likley this stuff would not happen (or happen alot less).

STFU... someone please quote me so douche bag will get the message

I am very concerned that your refund check never came. I was really waiting to see if you'd be the first person to get refunded.

Besides Grumpysgirl; who had their order bought/facilitated transfer through AMT; no one has yet to receive an ACTUAL refund from AMT.

Very worrying.

Anyone who believes they will receive a check or 1.2+ TH miner from AMT is delusional at this point. When we sent them money we gambled and lost. If you have the time and patience, your only recourse is legal, and only on the criminal side. Civil proceedings to try to get your money back will be fruitless. I've seen this with other scammers like AMT.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Anyone who believes they will receive a check or 1.2+ TH miner from AMT is delusional at this point. When we sent them money we gambled and lost. If you have the time and patience, your only recourse is legal, and only on the criminal side. Civil proceedings to try to get your money back will be fruitless. I've seen this with other scammers like AMT.

Civil proceedings have their merit.

I think most folks can't see the big picture here.  There are much bigger customers who have purchased from AMT,  these folks have a lot more legal muscle to ensure that they protect their investments. 

I have no interest in seeing anyone going to jail.  My only interest is a return on my investment.

That is the target, and I suggest everyone stick on topic.  Making the jump to a criminal accusation does not serve anyone's interest at this point.

[opieum2]

@Clenell and Phin and all the Alex Jones types
Here is some other advice as this "douchebag" is not above helping even the biggest asshole from potentially going to jail or getting his ass sued off over his own stupidity (as big of a dick as you are you don't deserve that though nothing you have said or done here based on what happened to you warrants that). If you want results or at least communication then the best thing I would recommend (which seems to work great in NYC area for similar type of things and I have personally gotten results from this method as well) Is contact the press. They can have a field day with this especially with bitcoin being such a big deal in the news these days. Bad news always draws in press. It will put the PA Attorney General on the spot and due to the publicity behind this action will have to be taken by someone. Now that being said if you are wrong guess what. That comes back on you in a really bad way. But the press angle will work if they are indeed the scam you claim they are. Give it a go. I really truly dare you on this. You do have a leg to stand on here tho documentation wise so it could work in getting results for yourself at least and maybe others waiting on refunds. But honestly if they run with this it could actually work in everyones favor including AMT as they get some publicity that helps their legitimacy or at least lights a fire under their ass to communicate with customers (which needs to happen). BFL had to do this because of a lawsuit. So now they post weekly updates.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/channel?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=7104840

Recommended framing of contact with them if you want to get their attention:

ABC News,

I have been working with a local Haverford Business Advanced Mining Technologies http://advancedminers.com
They are a business that focuses on mining bitcoin. They are a bitcoin hardware company. Due to the amount of scams on the internet it appears they may be one as well. I had requested a refund from them for non-delivery of product (1.2Ths miner or whatever you got) and they have not delivered. I requested a refund on (date of refund) and have not gotten it back despite repeated communications with them. While this matter is my own I also noticed there are others (point them to this forum) in a similar situation. Because of the nature of bitcoin and such I think it would be of great interest to many viewers to know more both about this hardware industry but also the nature of some of these businesses so anyone else looking to do this can be spared my experience. I think its important that people don't get caught up in the hype and wind up losing lots of money.

Sincerly
<NAME>

Of course you could write it in your typical redneck asshat way if your writing here has been any indication and get no results. They wont want to deal with you the same way AMT appears to want to avoid you like the plague.

They will look at this thread and see what is going on. Maybe some flags will be raised and it might bring some attention to this subject of preorders in this industry and how to handle it. And hey maybe because of this some legislation comes about that manages how these things are handled in the future. Not all legislation is bad. Most of all I want to see how this plays out and how much of what you have said has been true and what has been omitted by both sides.

I would be most interested in seeing what they turn up. For those who have been wronged by them send your info to the news outlet. But I do agree if they did not give you your refund when they said they would they are now in the wrong. OR a miner when they specifically told you they would then AMT is certainly in the wrong here. But if you want to get some press around this ABC is a good way to go. The affiliate will pick this story up locally and with all likelihood it will take off from there on a national level and expose BFL and others too. I will keep an eye on the news. And you know what? If you turn out to be dead wrong I will be loling hilariously (like the douchebag I am) at what comes next with you. I dare you and all the other Alex Jones types to contact ABC with this story. See if they run it. They love exposing scams and stuff like this. If its legit you look like the douchebags. For the moment I am inclined to believe they are legit but are running behind because of bitmines issues which are pretty clearly documented elsewhere in this forum. But you are totally entitled to your refund as well. For all your asshattery I won't knock that. Noone should screw around with your money.

PS Note one thing. They were clear on their delivery being By the end of March. Least with my own communications with them and what they had on their website. There are a few days left. So they do have to deliver by then or give a well documented reason why it's late they owe paying customers that much. But it is worth checking it out. Our getto investigations arent going anywhere but a press pass and a camera crew with investigative reporters might get some more results. But give the info you guys got and let the press vet it and run with it. Might actually get some results. OR you get loled as insane conspiracy theorists. Either way its worth a shot to see where it goes and what comes of it. I posted just ABC. however there are a ton of other newspapers and affiliates in philly. Give it a go. This douchebag DARES YOU. Hell I DOUBLE DARE YOU lol.

I do think tho the press route will get results if it gets their attention. Might not hurt for those who are having order issues to contact them. Chances are you will not need an attorney as a rep from the AG's office will contact you if it makes the news. Despite the asshattery Craig displays towards me and others, I think he is still in the right to request and get his money back. OR get a miner from them. But neither has happened so I am giving him an option because its not likely at this point the legal road will work without substantial assistance. Me I want the truth of the matter. If they have delays I want to know why. We all do. We who invested money deserve answers that we are not getting by any means of communication at this point. I have been keeping objective for the most part. But I think the fact is they need to communicate because even those on their side are getting a bit itchy on why they went silent. This is a fact not an opinion. But I think the news route will get the results we need as noone wants that kind of negative attention. And if they don't open their doors to the press its a HUGE problem for them when its the AG or a marshall, or the FBI showing up at their door for wire fraud. The bankcrupcy thing likley will not work out well for many of them especially if now the banks have to get involved (and considering their hostility to bitcoin they likely will want to)

[adobe_photoshop]

We should do a betting pool.

200 Page thread before anyone gets a 1.2TH miner.

I remember this post.

We are almost there!!!!
Let's do another betting pool! 300 threads before anyone received the mysterious 1.2TH miner.

[Syke]

We'll give you an update on where we are at every Tuesday, how about that?

It's Tuesday again! Think AMT will bless us with another non-update?

[opieum2]

We'll give you an update on where we are at every Tuesday, how about that?

It's Tuesday again! Think AMT will bless us with another non-update?

Hmm missed that post. If they do that at least thats good. Its something. If it at least highlights what they are currently working on. Some communication is better than none. And they have been at least posting up pics of what they have been doing. Hopefully we hear more about what is going on and particularly how the bitmine issue is affecting them (or if they worked around it some how)