Official Thread: AMT

[clenell]

Friction have you lost your mind? i wish i would have listened to these same "trolls" before i made the mistake of giving AMT $6000! if it were not for the AMT detractors who knows how many more people would be in the same damn boat as you and me. I don't get you at all. The time for being nice has passed. I'm not sure if you understand the situation you are in. I no longer believe AMT is having mere "technical" difficulties with chips and/or boards. They are going to be filing for bankruptcy soon. Josh is nothing short of a LIAR and he is the face of AMT. Can you explain this? They are flat out lying to customers.

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[FrictionlessCoin]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

I don't believe AMT and Bitmine.ch got into this business to scam the customer.  They unfortunately got in the business because they truly thought they could deliver a good product.  Unfortunately,  they were too over confident and now the entire business model appears to be in complete shambles.

Bitmine.ch is having trouble delivering and has halted all orders on their old product line.

AMT is dependent on Bitmine.ch and it is likely their revision 2.0 boards have issues and therefore they cannot ship.

Both are in deep trouble now.   Very bad business to be in.  HashFast is in deep trouble.   BFL is still having trouble.   Cointerra is shipping but not without delays,   however they will need to lower their prices to viable.  $6,000 for 2GHs can not meet ROI.    KNC may deliver,  but I doubt folks can ROI on a $12,000 3GHs machine.   Bitmain is dumping everything they have into the market. 

[clenell]

Friction have you lost your mind? i wish i would have listened to these same "trolls" before i made the mistake of giving AMT $6000! if it were not for the AMT detractors who knows how many more people would be in the same damn boat as you and me. I don't get you at all. The time for being nice has passed. I'm not sure if you understand the situation you are in. I no longer believe AMT is having mere "technical" difficulties with chips and/or boards. They are going to be filing for bankruptcy soon. Josh is nothing short of a LIAR and he is the face of AMT. Can you explain this? They are flat out lying to customers.

[clenell]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

and neither does lying to your fucking customers. AMT IS LYING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET!

you the type of guy i punch in the face and all you do is try and talk me out of whipping your ass further? i hate those guys.

diplomacy has failed.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Friction have you lost your mind? i wish i would have listened to these same "trolls" before i made the mistake of giving AMT $6000! if it were not for the AMT detractors who knows how many more people would be in the same damn boat as you and me. I don't get you at all. The time for being nice has passed. I'm not sure if you understand the situation you are in. I no longer believe AMT is having mere "technical" difficulties with chips and/or boards. They are going to be filing for bankruptcy soon. Josh is nothing short of a LIAR and he is the face of AMT. Can you explain this? They are flat out lying to customers.

I am fully aware of the situation I am in,  that is why I am going through the legal process to retrieve my $6089. 

[FrictionlessCoin]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

and neither does lying to your fucking customers. AMT IS LYING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET!

you the type of guy i punch in the face and all you do is try and talk me out of whipping your ass further? i hate those guys.

diplomacy has failed.

Your only recourse is to handle this in a diplomatic manner.

[clenell]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

and neither does lying to your fucking customers. AMT IS LYING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET!

you the type of guy i punch in the face and all you do is try and talk me out of whipping your ass further? i hate those guys.

diplomacy has failed.

Your only recourse is to handle this in a diplomatic manner.

yeah, what did that get Neville Chamberlain? the aggressor always sets the stage. Hence, WWII and Josh with your money.

[rik_khaos]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

and neither does lying to your fucking customers. AMT IS LYING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET!

you the type of guy i punch in the face and all you do is try and talk me out of whipping your ass further? i hate those guys.

diplomacy has failed.

Ah see, you are the type of guy to come to blows. That's just not in some of our's nature.

There is never a time for diplomacy to end. Up until the end of the legal process getting unruly and hurling insults does not help your case. In fact it hurts it. It especially hurts it if you act that way in court.

If you approach this is a calm civil manner you may get what you want out of this. But now josh can say that you've hunted down his personal phone number, called him and texted him on it. He could claim fear for himself and his family because people here have posted information that doesn't have anything to do with conducting business as AMT.

Every single thing that is posted that could be seen as threatening can be used against you or me or anyone of us who is attempting to get our money back. This is the time when diplomacy is of the most importance.

[rik_khaos]

Friction have you lost your mind?

Maybe you need to take a class on negotiation?

Insulting the other party does not further your agenda.   That is a basic rule.

and neither does lying to your fucking customers. AMT IS LYING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET!

you the type of guy i punch in the face and all you do is try and talk me out of whipping your ass further? i hate those guys.

diplomacy has failed.

Your only recourse is to handle this in a diplomatic manner.

yeah, what did that get Neville Chamberlain? the aggressor always sets the stage. Hence, WWII and Josh with your money.

Did you just compare this to world war 2? Really? Did I just read that? And in this scenario that makes josh, hitler. Godwin's law strikes in just under 200 pages.


What a terrible comparison.

[clenell]

bah, it was just an analogy. im trying to get the point across meekness will only get you so far. Josh is counting on people to by into the bull shit. It buys him time. All he is doing now is buying more and more time. The longer this plays out the harder it is to get your money back.

side note: the USA used to understand this.

[rik_khaos]

bah, it was just an analogy. im trying to get the point across meekness will only get you so far. Josh is counting on people to by into the bull shit. It buys him time. All he is doing now is buying more and more time. The longer this plays out the harder it is to get your money back.

side note: the USA used to understand this.

Just a curiosity, have you ever been in the service?


Why do you think he is trying to buy more time? If he's going to flee with his millions wouldn't he be out of here already? If he has millions sitting in his personal bank account but AMTs coffers are empty won't that look suspicious? If they file for bankruptcy and we can't prove fraud money isn't accessible to us. If we can prove fraud and they have nothing then we can't collect on the judgement. If we get judgment in our favor they will likely appeal.

If we get a judgement and they don't want to appeal, and they have money we should all get together and have someone from the sheriff's office take us to get our money from them all at once and then have a pizza party in their parking lot.

Bt they could also ask to make smaller payments to us overtime which doesn't help us really any (if we are assuming we are putting the money back into mining)

But if they really want to keep their business going it would be best to settle with us and have part of the settlement be a gag order.

I'd be willing to settle, just depends for how much, when, and a few of the conditions.

[RBCastro]

I would like to buy a 320GHs with PayPal.

I sent e-mails, but no return!


Thanks.

[rik_khaos]

I would like to buy a 320GHs with PayPal.

I sent e-mails, but no return!


Thanks.

lol

[opieum2]

I agree with Friction here. Its one thing to oppose a business and have a problem with how they do business. Its a whole other thing to go and insult anyone and make derogatory personal attacks (not to mention stalk them in their personal lives). What Tim says about Tom says more about Tim than it does about Tom.

Bottom line HOW you say something matters just as much as WHAT you say. So far I figure I have gotten a fair amount of insults for "supporting" them. I only know based on replies as I have chosen to put those people on ignore as they are not even relevant any more and just trolling past their original point. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But fact is now I have reason to doubt as I am not getting replies any more and like many others now getting sent to voicemail. Emails are going unreplied.

That all being said there is some merit to theirs and others anger here (the insults and personal stalking tho are excessive not to mention opening ones self up to lawsuits). AMT has not:
-Posted their promised Tuesday update anywhere (website, twitter, facebook, smoke signals even)
-Have not shipped any 1.2THs miners according to their promised schedule
-No engineering updates for the 1.2 beyond a few photos. (this is not proof)

What we want as customers I think most of not all of us can agree are updates and honest updates on what is actually going on. The trolls are not going to care either way. They do what they do. But AMT needs to stop responding to trolls and taking that same time to respond to its likely rapidly declining customer base. At least that's my opinion on the matter.

Again this is a level headed response avoiding the anti-semetic and personal attacks. Those achieve nothing. But the actual facts regarding what AMT is doing will lead to a better assessment of what needs to be done. I agree that they are poorly running things by avoiding communication. I don't think they are scamming (this would be the shittiest scam ever if it was) They might be furiously assembling miners, but fact is they cant be found anywhere to contact. This is distressing. It would be nice to hear back on whats going on and when our orders REALLY will ship. Hell if they said we don't know because we are waiting on X, would be much more acceptable than no reply at all at this point. That being said time is money. And if they cant deliver they don't deserve the business. Not gonna go into the personal attacks because someone disagrees with me. You either do or you don't that's all there is to it. The trolls are what they are because they feel the internet gives them that.

I think there is enough info on this thread now for any prospective buyer to make an informed decision if they cut past the Alex Jones crap.

Recap on what we do know:
-No deliveries (that we know of) have been made of 1.2THs miners according to their published schedule in this forum
-Public updates in this forum have been sporadic and counter attacking trolls and detractors instead of properly updating customers via their official channels (twitter, blog, facebook, etc)
-No email or phone replies in recent days (at least as of the 17th in my case)
-Apparent delays on refunds (not sure if clenell got his refund yet I presume not) (huge red flag here. if this is the case overall anyone else care to comment with facts if its happening to you as well?)

As I was a supporter in the beginning, hoping they just had some engineering issues they have not done a whole lot to restore everyones general confidence. Since they are not transparent then it goes to reason we have to make assumptions in our best interests whatever those may be.  Last login for AMT was the 11th of March this is telling in their intent to not communicate. I would like to say they are just forgetting this forum (to a degree I cant say I blame them), but they also started this post so they have some responsibility to respond to it and at get thicker skin against the trolls. IF AMT is reading this....get something concrete and detailed on your official channels so we can at least see where things are at....from this point on I think you will just start bleeding customers and the worst part, repeat business which is the hallmark of any resellers business model.  My opinions on the matter. Unless they drastically do a turn around on their communications personally cannot recommend them to anyone. I was willing to wait until the end of the month, but this is a consistent pattern which raises far to many flags at this point. More than anything this is what I was waiting to see.

I think dogies recommendations on vendors is a good one. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691

[clenell]

I would like to buy a 320GHs with PayPal.

I sent e-mails, but no return!


Thanks.

rofl! welcome to the AMT thread! please man, in all seriousness... do NOT buy a thing from AMT.

[RoadStress]

I would like to buy a 320GHs with PayPal.

I sent e-mails, but no return!


Thanks.

rofl! welcome to the AMT thread! please man, in all seriousness... do NOT buy a thing from AMT.

And also don't take any discounts from AMT!

[sirminesalot]

Reality check: People are pissed!

Friction, Opiem and Rik want to be all calm and collected about having lost several thousand dollars, that's fine. Just don't expect others to follow suit... and PLEASE for the love of god, I'm sick of hearing how 'you think' AMT has had the customers' best interest in mind. At no point were we ever given REAL updates and progress reports with substance. Now the shit has hit the fan and they are nowhere to be found. If they really were legit and cared about their customers, AMT_Miners wouldn't of disappeared; they would of updated the community somehow, someway. Last I checked it wasn't here, phone, emails, or their website.

Josh is probably stalling so he can continue collecting money for 'April' orders. I don't think we'll be seeing him again.

If they do decide to claim bankruptcy, I doubt they will let anyone know either.

My guess is that AMT is banking on the fact that most people on the internet, take losses like this and move on without telling anybody (due to embarrassment or thinking the justice system won't work for them).

Hey Joshy boy, I hope you look good in an orange jumpsuit!

[rik_khaos]

Reality check: People are pissed!

Friction, Opiem and Rik want to be all calm and collected about having lost several thousand dollars, that's fine. Just don't expect others to follow suit... and PLEASE for the love of god, I'm sick of hearing how 'you think' AMT has had the customers' best interest in mind. At no point were we ever given REAL updates and progress reports with substance. Now the shit has hit the fan and they are nowhere to be found. If they really were legit and cared about their customers, AMT_Miners wouldn't of disappeared; they would of updated the community somehow, someway. Last I checked it wasn't here, phone, emails, or their website.

Josh is probably stalling so he can continue collecting money for 'April' orders. I don't think we'll be seeing him again.

If they do decide to claim bankruptcy, I doubt they will let anyone know either.

My guess is that AMT is banking on the fact that most people on the internet, take losses like this and move on without telling anybody (due to embarrassment or thinking the justice system won't work for them).

Hey Joshy boy, I hope you look good in an orange jumpsuit!

You can be pissed and collected. Do I care for what is happening? No. Do we have proof of a scam? No, despite what everyone thinks I've yet to see real proof. Would I suggest anyone else ever do business with them? Absolutely not.

The problem is that when people lose their cool, even if angry and believe me I'm angry (maybe not for the exact same reason as others), they start to make crucial mistakes on how to handle things. They put their own cases in Jeopardy because they don't know how to hold their tongue, or prefer to cock a fist back rather than thinking everything through. My question to you is, how does this help them?

What favor did clenell do himself by getting a hold of Josh's personal number and calling him on it? Maybe he got under Josh's skin, maybe he feels like he finally stuck one to him. But wouldn't the better option have been to conceal that he had the number, waited for when he needed the Consumer Affairs office or some agency to to contact him via that line and blind sided him? So far as clenell has said calling Josh hasn't done anything in the way of getting a refund secured.

It's about being composed enough to wait for the right time to play the cards in your hand. I've not seen much of that here.

So let me be clear, I expect anyone who has money tied up with AMT to be upset, angry, pissed, enraged, but I also expect them to be smarter about things than how I've seem them handled on the forums up until this point.

Personal attacks and the like re not going to help you when you go to court. It is just more for them to use against you.

[opieum2]

Reality check: People are pissed!

Friction, Opiem and Rik want to be all calm and collected about having lost several thousand dollars, that's fine. Just don't expect others to follow suit... and PLEASE for the love of god, I'm sick of hearing how 'you think' AMT has had the customers' best interest in mind. At no point were we ever given REAL updates and progress reports with substance. Now the shit has hit the fan and they are nowhere to be found. If they really were legit and cared about their customers, AMT_Miners wouldn't of disappeared; they would of updated the community somehow, someway. Last I checked it wasn't here, phone, emails, or their website.

Josh is probably stalling so he can continue collecting money for 'April' orders. I don't think we'll be seeing him again.

If they do decide to claim bankruptcy, I doubt they will let anyone know either.

My guess is that AMT is banking on the fact that most people on the internet, take losses like this and move on without telling anybody (due to embarrassment or thinking the justice system won't work for them).

Hey Joshy boy, I hope you look good in an orange jumpsuit!

You can be pissed and collected. Do I care for what is happening? No. Do we have proof of a scam? No, despite what everyone thinks I've yet to see real proof. Would I suggest anyone else ever do business with them? Absolutely not.

The problem is that when people lose their cool, even if angry and believe me I'm angry (maybe not for the exact same reason as others), they start to make crucial mistakes on how to handle things. They put their own cases in Jeopardy because they don't know how to hold their tongue, or prefer to cock a fist back rather than thinking everything through. My question to you is, how does this help them?

What favor did clenell do himself by getting a hold of Josh's personal number and calling him on it? Maybe he got under Josh's skin, maybe he feels like he finally stuck one to him. But wouldn't the better option have been to conceal that he had the number, waited for when he needed the Consumer Affairs office or some agency to to contact him via that line and blind sided him? So far as clenell has said calling Josh hasn't done anything in the way of getting a refund secured.

It's about being composed enough to wait for the right time to play the cards in your hand. I've not seen much of that here.

So let me be clear, I expect anyone who has money tied up with AMT to be upset, angry, pissed, enraged, but I also expect them to be smarter about things than how I've seem them handled on the forums up until this point.

Personal attacks and the like re not going to help you when you go to court. It is just more for them to use against you.

+10

Bottom line how does it look to a court? Perception matters. ALOT. Law plays a role of course. But if their lawyer in your proceedings sees that your correspondence was hostile and threatening and whatever else, you start to lose credibility and that is the first thing that gets called into question. Your premise for going at them. If you go into it with a good faith effort (which is a legal term as well) trying to get information all according to the law and your consumer protection in a calm (even if you are pissed) and collected manner you will get results. Might take a while but you will get them.

Problem is going in with racial slurs and telling people to eat "bowls of dicks" does not really hold up real well in a court of law. Going at anyone with any kind of threat does nothing but put them on a bigger defensive and lessens your offensive position. This is all strategy. Fact is even coming on here and broadcast intent to sue just prepares them and clams them up. Its strategically stupid. At shit point I am working on getting a refund if I get no reply to my current inquiry (which based on current patterns I can expect none and am just creating a papertrail).  I am looking to just get a refund or my miners at this point. If I get assurances I will get them by March 31st hell I will take pictures and post them here for all to see. I think that's worth something. But if I get a refund well, I will just use the money to take my business elsewhere as is my right. At least once this is put to bed I can move on and go elsewhere with my money. Getting irrational gets you nowhere.

Note that the people who get shit done in life are usually pretty collected and cool. They get the facts and play it cool. It is rare to seem them lose their cool. Those are succesful people. You seldom if ever see anyone who is running around calling people names and all that on the fortune 500 or even 1000.

[dave111223]

I would like to buy a 320GHs with PayPal.

I sent e-mails, but no return!


Thanks.

rofl! welcome to the AMT thread! please man, in all seriousness... do NOT buy a thing from AMT.

Haven't been around here in a while; what happened; I thought you were the resident AMT shill?