NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Sebastien256]

PLEASE VOTE IN THIS POLL:

What currency should be used to price and purchase Assets on the upcoming NXT Asset Exchange?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524432.msg5814924#msg5814924

Please before make pool. Let people discuss the matter! My opinion is not set yet. Probably the same with many people out there.

EDIT:
Altough the poll is flawed and missing many options.

There is what i think:

I would vote to allow the use of whatever currency the user creating the asset wish to use as a denominator! But always transaction fee in Nxt to cover blockchain cost.

I think that this is what will allowed the AE to grow with the most possibility. Think decentralized and free will! This issue is similar to the non-unique asset name. Don't limit Nxt!
AE is only one part of Nxt, Nxt is not only AE, other thing on top of NXt will also make Nxt grow in value.

[jabo38]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.  Basically what would be happening if multiple large mining pools mining for nxt were formed, they would jump into alt coins and dump, which would crash the price of said alt coin.  At the same time, they would be raising the price of nxt.  If even 2-3% of miners in the world switched to mining nxt indirectly through mining alt coins, it would be kind of like a mafia, constantly knocking out one coin at a time, and if the coin got back up, it would just get knocked out again.  Eventually...... once the nxt mining mafia go a certain percentage of mining power, most other miners would be faced with a choice, continue to mine coins that are not profitable, turn off the miners or join nxt mining pools.  Am I not right that this is the end game?

[Sebastien256]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

[jl777]

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

+ 1 Billion NXT

You are right, nobody has heard of BTC or USD. What was I thinking, giving them free PR

Seriously James, Where do you live? Can we drink a few bottles of wine sometime soon?

EDIT: Ask a guy on a date and he takes off? WTF   

?
I am a machine, I am always online, ignore the indicator light, I stayed online for too many hours in a row and it broke

[jabo38]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

Do you think BCnext saw this coming?

[Sebastien256]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

I believe that eventually, multipool will not concentrate on one coin at a time, you could even control the attack power of a multipool by distributing the power on many coins to ensure the best constant revenue. Multipool are not there yet. This is a war PoS again PoW  . PoS win in the long term because it cannot be attack in that way.

[jabo38]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

I believe that eventually, multipool will not concentrate on one coin at a time, you could even control the attack power of a multipool by distributing the power on many coins to ensure the best constant revenue. Multipool are not there yet. This is a war POS again POW  . POS win in the long term because it cannot be attack in that way.

Thanks.  I am not a miner but just told my buddy with an ASIC about this.  I have been talking nxt up for a while to him, but since he is old school he was hesitant, maybe he will jump in now. 

[jl777]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.  Basically what would be happening if multiple large mining pools mining for nxt were formed, they would jump into alt coins and dump, which would crash the price of said alt coin.  At the same time, they would be raising the price of nxt.  If even 2-3% of miners in the world switched to mining nxt indirectly through mining alt coins, it would be kind of like a mafia, constantly knocking out one coin at a time, and if the coin got back up, it would just get knocked out again.  Eventually...... once the nxt mining mafia go a certain percentage of mining power, most other miners would be faced with a choice, continue to mine coins that are not profitable, turn off the miners or join nxt mining pools.  Am I not right that this is the end game?

Well, the snowflake has started falling from the sky and it could start a small snow ball rolling down the mountain.
I think there is less than 10 GH/s in the NXT pools and a thousand times that in the other pools.

Of course, if some insidious large NXT holders wanted to ensure your scenario, all they would have to do is offer a matching donation of NXT to the mining outputs. Based on the numbers I saw, i think that will instantly move about 50% of mining power to NXT as the miners have no loyalty to any coin, just highest ROI for today.

Just announce to the mining forums that they can earn the best return from the NXT mining pools and we can lightup London with all the electricity wasted to generate garbage coins, but then we turn it to good use by converting it to NXT. It would be kind of ironic if NXT became the end result of the majority of mining power.

James

[Sebastien256]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

I believe that eventually, multipool will not concentrate on one coin at a time, you could even control the attack power of a multipool by distributing the power on many coins to ensure the best constant revenue. Multipool are not there yet. This is a war POS again POW  . POS win in the long term because it cannot be attack in that way.

Thanks.  I am not a miner but just told my buddy with an ASIC about this.  I have been talking nxt up for a while to him, but since he is old school he was hesitant, maybe he will jump in now.  

What is the funiest thing in this is that it will be the miner that will kill their mining rigs themselves! lol
It is a first come first serve to Nxt.

In the end, PoW die and crypto become green with PoS. Nice story!  

[MadCow]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.  Basically what would be happening if multiple large mining pools mining for nxt were formed, they would jump into alt coins and dump, which would crash the price of said alt coin.  At the same time, they would be raising the price of nxt.  If even 2-3% of miners in the world switched to mining nxt indirectly through mining alt coins, it would be kind of like a mafia, constantly knocking out one coin at a time, and if the coin got back up, it would just get knocked out again.  Eventually...... once the nxt mining mafia go a certain percentage of mining power, most other miners would be faced with a choice, continue to mine coins that are not profitable, turn off the miners or join nxt mining pools.  Am I not right that this is the end game?

NXT is assimilating alt coin market cap into the POS hive mind as we speak.

The NXT cube is descending on crypto land - alt coin value will be assimilated - resistance is futile!

[jl777]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

I believe that eventually, multipool will not concentrate on one coin at a time, you could even control the attack power of a multipool by distributing the power on many coins to ensure the best constant revenue. Multipool are not there yet. This is a war POS again POW  . POS win in the long term because it cannot be attack in that way.

Thanks.  I am not a miner but just told my buddy with an ASIC about this.  I have been talking nxt up for a while to him, but since he is old school he was hesitant, maybe he will jump in now.  

What is the funiest thing in this is that it will be the miner that will kill their mining rigs themselves! lol
It is a first come first serve to Nxt.

In the end, PoW die and crypto become green with PoS. Nice story!  

PoW wont die, they will live on to serve NXT

[jabo38]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.  Basically what would be happening if multiple large mining pools mining for nxt were formed, they would jump into alt coins and dump, which would crash the price of said alt coin.  At the same time, they would be raising the price of nxt.  If even 2-3% of miners in the world switched to mining nxt indirectly through mining alt coins, it would be kind of like a mafia, constantly knocking out one coin at a time, and if the coin got back up, it would just get knocked out again.  Eventually...... once the nxt mining mafia go a certain percentage of mining power, most other miners would be faced with a choice, continue to mine coins that are not profitable, turn off the miners or join nxt mining pools.  Am I not right that this is the end game?

NXT is assimilating alt coin market cap into the POS hive mind as we speak.

The NXT cube is descending on crypto land - alt coins will be assimilated - resistance is futile!

hahaha +1

[Sebastien256]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.

Yes that it is!

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

I believe that eventually, multipool will not concentrate on one coin at a time, you could even control the attack power of a multipool by distributing the power on many coins to ensure the best constant revenue. Multipool are not there yet. This is a war POS again POW  . POS win in the long term because it cannot be attack in that way.

Thanks.  I am not a miner but just told my buddy with an ASIC about this.  I have been talking nxt up for a while to him, but since he is old school he was hesitant, maybe he will jump in now.  

What is the funiest thing in this is that it will be the miner that will kill their mining rigs themselves! lol
It is a first come first serve to Nxt.

In the end, PoW die and crypto become green with PoS. Nice story!  

PoW wont die, they will live on to serve NXT

Well, only usefull PoW will survive. Crap will be dump right away with enough attack power.

[xyzzyx]

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

Do you think BCnext saw this coming?

Huh.  One group of services on top of Nxt will be automatic alt-coin pump-and-dump machines.  Interesting.

[jl777]

So basically, there is nothing any of the alt coins can do?  Because nxt can mine them, but they can't do anything back??  They are basically sitting there ready to be taken down one by one??  Eventually, nxt could even crash bitcoin doing this too then.  PoW looks really weak now!

Do you think BCnext saw this coming?

Huh.  One group of services on top of next Nxt will be automatic alt-coin pump-and-dump machines.  Interesting.

I dont see any pump action, just mine and dump. Of course the ones that are mined are the ones that have already been pumped to be the most profitable.

NXT is a platform. There will be exactly 1001 different types of NXT applications. it will be impossible to create any more than 1001 new ideas of using NXT as a platform. There are 1000 active NXT'ers and that is an average of 1 idea per person, plus the 1.0 usage. There is no way a single person can come up with more than one way of using NXT as a platform.

This means NXT future is limited to the 1001 ways it will be used.

James

[IveBeenBit]

Please listen to James.

Here is a chart I made using the top 7 Bitcoin exchanges. I pulled the data from bitcoincharts.com/markets.

"BTC Sell order move price 10%" is the amount of BTC you would have to sell to drop the price 10% on that exchange.
"BTC Buy order move price 10%" is the amount of BTC you would have to buy to raise the price 10% on that exchange.
"USD Equivalent" is the USD equivalent of making those purchases and sales, and accounts for slippage.



What this means is that with less than $10 million worth of trading action, you can immediately move the bitcoin price 10% and throw the markets into chaos.

THIS IS WITH THE 800 POUND CRYPTO GORILLA: BITCOIN

Bitcoin has a $7.3 billion market cap.

Trading 0.14% of Bitcoin's total market cap will cause havoc.

$10 million is peanuts to big financial interests.

Big money will not touch NXT for trading commodities.

Do the math!

[IveBeenBit]

Oops, not factorial.  You are correct, but divided by two (if ask/bid grouped as single market) So is: N * (N-1) / 2

Consider 6 assets A, B, C, D, E, and F:

(...)

Consider 1000 assets:
499500 markets.

This is not relevant. The market wants what the market wants. We cannot force people to trade pairs they dont want to trade. They will simply not do it, other than the occasional inventory rebalancing.

I believe most trading will go through NXT.
I just want to have the ability to satisfy the market demand. This is a marketing thing. Find a need and fill it. Not have a feature and convince people they want it. That is not easy at all

James

Agreed it is not relevant...there will be a small group of "elite" asset classes that will trade against each other -- USD, Euro, Gold, Yen, Bitcoin, NXT, maybe a few more.

They will be traded against the tier 2 commodities: wheat, agricultural stuff, oil, silver, copper, cement, lumber etc..

Then you'll have the garbage coins trading for USD / NXT / BTC (the tier 1 currencies)

Yes you can theoretically have thousands of useless trading pairs, but who cares if there is Dogecoin / gold trading pair with 5 grams of gold listed on the asset exchange? Any halfway decent NXT client would filter out those rinky dink pairs and you'll never even see it.

[IveBeenBit]

All you Bitcoin chasers need to listen to James.

PoS means earning on the back of all these others.

PoS means we're not going to mine more next week and have a bigger chunk than we did before.

PoS and TF means we can RUN all their actions for them, and take a CUT off the top. THIS will make NXT raise through the sky.

NXT is NOT for buying gum, or internet junk. It's for making huge amounts of OTHER actions happen.

This exactly. NXT will succeed because we enable others to conduct commerce more efficiently. Not because we lure them into our system and then dictate to them how to do business, and what sort of trade they are permitted to engage in. We want to make a platform free from restrictions and give them the tools to better their lives...and then we ride the coattails of their increased productivity and the whole world gains wealth!

Look again at my spreadsheet where I demonstrated that suddenly injecting 0.14% of Bitcoin's total market cap would throw the markets into chaos.

IF (BIG "if") we somehow could convince people to use our AE, and then force them to use only NXT, then this is what will happen:

If OPEC wants Crypto Gold and Barrick Mining wants Crypto Oil, then an institution like the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT) will escrow, OPEC transfers their oil to CBOT, Barrick transfers gold to CBOT, then CBOT will send the oil to Barrick and the Gold to OPEC. The assets would never trade on the exchange and would run through a centralized party to avoid the crazy volatility that would happen if they had to denominate everything in NXT.

Forcing trades in NXT & being successful is a pipe dream.

[brooklynbtc]

free market must be FREE (with a small fee for PoS)

[paradigmflux]

I have been thinking about this nxt mining pool thing.  Am I right with my ideas?  It seems to me that this could basically kill every alt coin one by one, basically anything that is not running off of PoS.  Basically what would be happening if multiple large mining pools mining for nxt were formed, they would jump into alt coins and dump, which would crash the price of said alt coin.  At the same time, they would be raising the price of nxt.  If even 2-3% of miners in the world switched to mining nxt indirectly through mining alt coins, it would be kind of like a mafia, constantly knocking out one coin at a time, and if the coin got back up, it would just get knocked out again.  Eventually...... once the nxt mining mafia go a certain percentage of mining power, most other miners would be faced with a choice, continue to mine coins that are not profitable, turn off the miners or join nxt mining pools.  Am I not right that this is the end game?

Well, the snowflake has started falling from the sky and it could start a small snow ball rolling down the mountain.
I think there is less than 10 GH/s in the NXT pools and a thousand times that in the other pools.

Of course, if some insidious large NXT holders wanted to ensure your scenario, all they would have to do is offer a matching donation of NXT to the mining outputs. Based on the numbers I saw, i think that will instantly move about 50% of mining power to NXT as the miners have no loyalty to any coin, just highest ROI for today.

Just announce to the mining forums that they can earn the best return from the NXT mining pools and we can lightup London with all the electricity wasted to generate garbage coins, but then we turn it to good use by converting it to NXT. It would be kind of ironic if NXT became the end result of the majority of mining power.

James

This is actually true! Miners on hashrate.org actually recieved a much higher payout than they would have on most of the multipools.  See my thread on nextcoin.org for punkrock's analysis.