Bitcoin Forum
March 19, 2024, 11:05:41 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 [168] 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 412862 times)
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 05:59:27 AM
 #3341

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED? LOL

CAPS MAKE ME LOOK COOL, EVERYBODY USE CAPS. ABUSE DEM CAPS.

no word from our leader
1710846341
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710846341

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710846341
Reply with quote  #2

1710846341
Report to moderator
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1710846341
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710846341

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710846341
Reply with quote  #2

1710846341
Report to moderator
1710846341
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710846341

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710846341
Reply with quote  #2

1710846341
Report to moderator
1710846341
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710846341

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710846341
Reply with quote  #2

1710846341
Report to moderator
acs26
Guest

June 12, 2013, 06:03:03 AM
 #3342

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED? LOL

CAPS MAKE ME LOOK COOL, EVERYBODY USE CAPS. ABUSE DEM CAPS.

no word from our leader

---- The following message is by the leader of the Internet Clan - 2scred4Newbs ----

dude I request you take off ur posts cuz they makes no sense caps are awesome I want to speak to letter I hve u knew idea hw to spellz? cume own letz trullz ech otherz.

----                          End of Message                                                         -----

Ps dahes r weshum
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:07:08 AM
 #3343

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED? LOL

CAPS MAKE ME LOOK COOL, EVERYBODY USE CAPS. ABUSE DEM CAPS.

no word from our leader

---- The following message is by the leader of the Internet Clan - 2scred4Newbs ----

dude I request you take off ur posts cuz they makes no sense caps are awesome I want to speak to letter I hve u knew idea hw to spellz? cume own letz trullz ech otherz.

----                          End of Message                                                         -----

Ps dahes r weshum

SHAKERZZZ SPEAK!!!! :LOL
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:08:17 AM
 #3344

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



come on i'll bet you how much u got?
worldinacoin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 12, 2013, 06:12:30 AM
 #3345

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



come on i'll bet you how much u got?

This is a free forum, not a forum from Orwell's 1984, anyone has the right to speak up or keep silent, isn't it?
acs26
Guest

June 12, 2013, 06:28:12 AM
 #3346

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED? LOL

CAPS MAKE ME LOOK COOL, EVERYBODY USE CAPS. ABUSE DEM CAPS.

no word from our leader

---- The following message is by the leader of the Internet Clan - 2scred4Newbs ----

dude I request you take off ur posts cuz they makes no sense caps are awesome I want to speak to letter I hve u knew idea hw to spellz? cume own letz trullz ech otherz.

----                          End of Message                                                         -----

Ps dahes r weshum

SHAKERZZZ SPEAK!!!! :LOL

with u bro lets troll each other loner, kay? - 2scred4Newbs Leader
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:35:53 AM
 #3347

From the Bitcoin Education Project:
Quote
We'd like for someone from the Devcoin community to record a video lecture on Devcoin for our free community built course on Bitcoin:

https://www.udemy.com/bitcoin-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-crypto/

We have nearly 2,000 subscribers in about six weeks and we are on target for 10,000 by the end of the Summer thus this would be an excellent opportunity for you guys to share devcoin with a much broader audience.

Here is our project's website:

http://btcedproject.org/

I'm looking for an introductory 15-30 minute lecture that answers the following questions:

What is Devcoin?
What does Devcoin seek to accomplish?
How can I acquire and use devcoins?
Where are the Devcoin communities?
How can I help the Devcoin community?

Ok, I got this PM, and was discussing possible animation or other options to avoid one of our ugly mugs being permanently attached to devcoin. Perhaps a script even if it does end up being one person just talking on screen. But this should be done with proper lighting, makeup, etc lets get this done professionally. I have no idea what a bounty for this would be worth, but I would suggest one be issued for the hard work that will go into this.

Edit: Finshaggy, are you in contact with that mon corpus or whatever, a pretty face never hurts with gaining public attention.

I received this PM also, and was sitting here with an OpenSimulator viewer open on another desktop, reading this forum directly in a browser so far rather than having my avatar in OpenSim read it on a simulated computer in the avatar's home...

...So your suggestion of using an animation is great! We can meet in OpenSim, on OSgrid!

Do a regions search on the map for Digitalis. You will see a bunch of regions, east of Turia's bunch of regions. I am running all those regions east of Turia's so called outer plains (that are actually now sea regions).

Not only the regions with Digitalis in the name; I have been putting Linda Kellie's free regions (from LindaKellie.com, or really now from the site her domain now redirects to) online, and used generic names for them. So the region called Conference Centre is her Conference Center archive made manifest on the grid. We can meet the interviewers or whatever in avatar form at the conference centre!

We can also rent plots of land, or entire regions, for DeVCoins... Cannot really sell gear since all the gear is free gear, tons of free gear, Linda Kellie made vast amounts of content and made it all freely available, so we have been setting it up on OSgrid to showcase it and really also just to get to walk in among it and get a good look at it all. That is where a lot of my hours of work on free open source stuff have been going this round, heck I got 48 hours in in 48 hours before i slept! Smiley

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:37:48 AM
 #3348

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED? LOL

CAPS MAKE ME LOOK COOL, EVERYBODY USE CAPS. ABUSE DEM CAPS.

no word from our leader

---- The following message is by the leader of the Internet Clan - 2scred4Newbs ----

dude I request you take off ur posts cuz they makes no sense caps are awesome I want to speak to letter I hve u knew idea hw to spellz? cume own letz trullz ech otherz.

----                          End of Message                                                         -----

Ps dahes r weshum

SHAKERZZZ SPEAK!!!! :LOL

with u bro lets troll each other loner, kay? - 2scred4Newbs Leader

no i just feel when scammers exploit your computer then cheese in your face  =  i;m going to smoke out the demons here
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:44:14 AM
 #3349

Please ignore my post. I was looking at everyones profile starting with Owlsley and with all the crap going on got myself mixed up.

I can admit I made an error and do not mean to throw any ones character in a bad light. My apologies to any one I mentioned, apart from Owlsleytroll.



come on i'll bet you how much u got?

This is a free forum, not a forum from Orwell's 1984, anyone has the right to speak up or keep silent, isn't it?

ya no worries just if you are going to post stuff like that back it up he said does any 1 wanna bet>> ya i do!~   personal attacks name calling not cool
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:49:19 AM
 #3350

How is that?  I mean, isn't this how google gets paid?  Are advertisers that dumb?  I presumed if it was good enough for google and billion dollar advertisers it would be good enough for devtome and devcoin.  Or is there something in addition which google employs to ensure there's no manipulation?  

Anybody know how google does it to keep it fair and keep bots out?  TIA.

They throw money at it.

Our best approach to measuring article usefulness would probably be to use a major huge big money advertising network such as Google AdSense so that they do the worrying about whether the views are kae or not and we just get paid by them and get stats per page from them telling how much money each page made. Then we don't care about visits or article quality we just get money we can then divvy up. (Not all of it going to the author of the page, since putting that page somewhere else it would not benefit from all the cross-links from all the devtome articles wikilinking to it, all the pagerank of the devtome and so on. Also not in fiat of course; the fiat would be used to buy devcoins on an exchange and some fraction of those devcoins would go out to the authors of the pages proportionately to how much of the advertising earnings was from that page.)

The expense of policing visits and clicks is a huge thing, all the puny little alternate advertising networks people keep creating are basically free money for clickfraud practitioners once they have been thrown out of AdSense or given up trying to make yet another sockpuppet adsense account to try again with. Good luck making a devcoin powered advertisign netowrk that works, bitcoin has some and they don't work yet, i doubt a devcoin one will really be any better.

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 06:57:10 AM
 #3351

Also, to clarify something else... ad CTR is usually based more on the advertiser themselves than anyone else. If two advertisers create their ads, they will have different CTR's, even when on the same content. There have been ads that run a 0.00% CTR because they flat out suck, and others than convert 10%+. When you bring revenue into this as part of determining how much each writer's "value" is, you're not only basing it on THEIR work, but also the advertisers', something the writer has absolutely no control over.

The author does have some control over the advertisers. For example the write can write about somethng advertisers pay $100+ per clickthrough on, or something advertisers pay $0.05 or less per clickthrough on.

Often the high paying ads will try to word themselves in a way that will discourage anyone but truly interested parties from clicking through, such as making it clear their product costs money, that they are not offering any freebies etc. Whereas topic paying low rates might well want every click they can get, so will say stuff intended to get anyone to click, since they might well be sending the traffic to a page that will from there sort out the traffic and push it into higher-paying variants of the topic or higher paying related topics.

Also once an author sees the kinds of ads their page gets assigned, they could adapt their text in ways intended to create more interest in some of the things they have seen advertised on their page.

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
killerstorm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1015



View Profile
June 12, 2013, 07:43:41 AM
 #3352

How is a hackathon any different from a writeathon or a poetry contest?

You seem to be ignoring everything what I'm saying...

A successful software project can bring a lot of users, particularly paying users. And thus revenue. Potentially millions of people will buy Devcoins and use them for payments.

If you can do same with poetry contest, go ahead. But I just don't see how poetry contest can do that. You know, for some reason venture capitalists invest into software projects, not into poetry contest. And they kinda like market caps Smiley

And higher market cap means that more people can get paid. So it makes sense to focus on high-impact projects first, and later expand the program to get more people involved.

Please understand me correctly, I'm not against writers and artists. What I'm saying is that we need to get incentives right, i.e. to optimize for a thing we are optimizing.

Let's say I go to devtome.com, what do I see? An ugly page with tonnes and tonnes of mess on it. It is hard to find anything.

Nobody is thinking about presentation because they are paid for writing words!

Now, say, if Devtome was done right, its front page would be nicely organized. It should also be aesthetically pleasing, rather than using default theme.

A visitor which gets to devtome front page should see general categories, features articles etc. Focus on content which is of high quality, is nicely organized etc. Sweep half-baked shit under the rug.

So perhaps it can work if you writers get your shit together and make presentation nice. But "getting your shit together" isn't incentivized, only writing more and more words is. So nobody even bothered to take 5 minutes and think how site can be made more appealing.

This clearly demonstrates how incentives are important. It is rare for things to get done without incentive.

Now compare Devtome to http://bitcoinmagazine.com/ What's different?

That's why I'm saying that organizational structure is the problem. It shouldn't be a flat hippie community. There should be a person who is responsible for marketing, for growth, for content organization, software development etc. And everybody should be accountable for what he is doing: if he isn't doing it right, he'll get replaced.

Even better, run several projects in parallel and let them compete with each other. Competition increases efficiency, and without competition you get fat and lazy.

Just because a lot of programmers produce a lot of code it does not mean that code will be worth any money.

Of course we are talking only about projects which increase demand for Devcoins. Simply writing code does not work

This is true, but it does not change the fact that it's easier for people to get paid writing for Devcoin because the bounty system isnt automated while Devtome is.

We should not care about what is easier for people. (The easiest thing is to do nothing, of course.) We should only care about revenue if we want to grow the market cap. And higher market cap allows more people to work on things.

You say that "math doesn't work" and you different philosophical opinion. But in reality you're missing cause and effect relationship here.

I think perhaps the problem with Devcoin is that it can only support a finite amount of writers and programmers at a time. That isn't how a market is supposed to work.

Huh, Devcoin isn't a market. Devcoin bounties are supposed to finance things which cannot be financed in traditional way.

But otherwise you can get a whole economy where people get paid in Devcoins which do not come from bounties, but are bought on market. Infinitely many workers can work if they can sell what they do.

When productivity and quality increases the profits aren't supposed to shrink.

Your profits won't shrink if what you do increases market cap.

Chromia: a better dapp platform
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 07:48:17 AM
 #3353

It's not just inflation that I'm talking about, I'm saying the idea that somehow Devcoins will become valuable when they are generating at this rate. Inflation by itself isn't an issue unless it's at a rate faster than the market can handle and then the actual purchasing power and pay of every worker shrinks. This is the opposite of what is happening with Bitcoin and Litecoin. With those coins if you write or code and get paid in either of those coins then it's reasonable to believe that a year from now your coins might be worth even more so you might save them. With Devcoin we aren't seeing that trend are we.  So if you're a mathematician explain to me why we aren't seeing the same trend with Devcoin that we see with Bitcoin and Litecoin? Are you saying it's just because of market cap?

So bitcoin is designed wrong?

Remember bitcoin too is designed to produce a constant number of coins for four years.

So until we hit four years we are no different. Since you don't think four years ahead is relevant what are you proposing, a pre-mined coin in which there is no inflation because the Tome owns all coins from block one and if anyone ever wants one they will have to get it from them?

Or You want a instamine coin maybe, half the coins minted the first month, another quarter the second month, another eighth the third month and so on so that in siz months when the problems you expect come along there is already by then no inflation?

You sound like a bit of a nutbar frankly, no different from those who insist bitcoin will die because it does NOT make the same amount of coins forever, except you take the opposite position.

The reason the coin is going down in price is because it is being given out to opportunists who are no different from the miners whose opportunism was limited in DeVCoin by only giving them 10% of the coins.

Maybe a partial solution would be to only let 10% of the coins be written-for just like only 10% can be mined.

Bitcoins have been going down too lately, have you noticed? Same reason: people dumping them. Maybe people are giving them all to asIC companies who are in turn turning them into fiat to buy parts or something, I don't know, but ultimately if the value goes down it traces back to people dumping.

i read a mention earlier that we need people to buy things with devcoin, and was tempted to point out right there that actually a lot seems to depend on WHAT people buy, or maybe on WHERE/HOW they buy it.

The what/how part is because maybe buying fiat is not the core reason the value goes down, maybe the core reason is the fiat is being bought on a certain style of market. Maybe no matter what you buy if you buy it on that format/form of market you inevitably drive price down, because the players who play those markets earn their money by trying to make sure that you need to sell more and more for less and less to sell in volume and need to buy less and less for more and more in order to buy in any volume.

In a lot of ways those markets seem ass-backwards from normal markets. In normal markets if you want to buy wholesale quantities you pay a lower price, not a higher price! Open Transactions uses scales for markets in order to facilititate those kinds of things, things we see in real markets whether you buy rice or potatoes or pig-bellies or iron ingots or almost anything else. Quantity discounts!

So maybe the structure of the marketplaces is as much or more to blame than the specific commodity being bought and sold or being used as "currency" to buy and sell "with".

Even if the newer coins don't even offer much in advancement, if people think they can make more money from them they'll use it. Devcoin has a good intention, and a good idea, but implemented wrong, and designed wrong, these are my opinions.

So writers are like miners, they will jump on each new instamined / insta-written-for coin, there will be a few new coins a day for a while, hmm are there still a few more each day right now, i haven't even bothered to watch, more useless crap blah blah blah. let them, once they have a few hundred wallets maybe they will look back and see writing for a hundred tomes a month is enough, they can afford to drop a couple hundred from their daily grind...

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
owsleybeatsbigcartel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 07:59:52 AM
 #3354

It's not just inflation that I'm talking about, I'm saying the idea that somehow Devcoins will become valuable when they are generating at this rate. Inflation by itself isn't an issue unless it's at a rate faster than the market can handle and then the actual purchasing power and pay of every worker shrinks. This is the opposite of what is happening with Bitcoin and Litecoin. With those coins if you write or code and get paid in either of those coins then it's reasonable to believe that a year from now your coins might be worth even more so you might save them. With Devcoin we aren't seeing that trend are we.  So if you're a mathematician explain to me why we aren't seeing the same trend with Devcoin that we see with Bitcoin and Litecoin? Are you saying it's just because of market cap?

So bitcoin is designed wrong?

Remember bitcoin too is designed to produce a constant number of coins for four years.

So until we hit four years we are no different. Since you don't think four years ahead is relevant what are you proposing, a pre-mined coin in which there is no inflation because the Tome owns all coins from block one and if anyone ever wants one they will have to get it from them?

Or You want a instamine coin maybe, half the coins minted the first month, another quarter the second month, another eighth the third month and so on so that in siz months when the problems you expect come along there is already by then no inflation?

You sound like a bit of a nutbar frankly, no different from those who insist bitcoin will die because it does NOT make the same amount of coins forever, except you take the opposite position.

The reason the coin is going down in price is because it is being given out to opportunists who are no different from the miners whose opportunism was limited in DeVCoin by only giving them 10% of the coins.

Maybe a partial solution would be to only let 10% of the coins be written-for just like only 10% can be mined.

Bitcoins have been going down too lately, have you noticed? Same reason: people dumping them. Maybe people are giving them all to asIC companies who are in turn turning them into fiat to buy parts or something, I don't know, but ultimately if the value goes down it traces back to people dumping.

i read a mention earlier that we need people to buy things with devcoin, and was tempted to point out right there that actually a lot seems to depend on WHAT people buy, or maybe on WHERE/HOW they buy it.

The what/how part is because maybe buying fiat is not the core reason the value goes down, maybe the core reason is the fiat is being bought on a certain style of market. Maybe no matter what you buy if you buy it on that format/form of market you inevitably drive price down, because the players who play those markets earn their money by trying to make sure that you need to sell more and more for less and less to sell in volume and need to buy less and less for more and more in order to buy in any volume.

In a lot of ways those markets seem ass-backwards from normal markets. In normal markets if you want to buy wholesale quantities you pay a lower price, not a higher price! Open Transactions uses scales for markets in order to facilititate those kinds of things, things we see in real markets whether you buy rice or potatoes or pig-bellies or iron ingots or almost anything else. Quantity discounts!

So maybe the structure of the marketplaces is as much or more to blame than the specific commodity being bought and sold or being used as "currency" to buy and sell "with".

Even if the newer coins don't even offer much in advancement, if people think they can make more money from them they'll use it. Devcoin has a good intention, and a good idea, but implemented wrong, and designed wrong, these are my opinions.

So writers are like miners, they will jump on each new instamined / insta-written-for coin, there will be a few new coins a day for a while, hmm are there still a few more each day right now, i haven't even bothered to watch, more useless crap blah blah blah. let them, once they have a few hundred wallets maybe they will look back and see writing for a hundred tomes a month is enough, they can afford to drop a couple hundred from their daily grind...

-MarkM-


Confirmed > DEVCOIN SCAM BEWARE RED FLAGS ALL OVER THIS POS
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 08:10:12 AM
Last edit: June 12, 2013, 05:31:11 PM by markm
 #3355

Imagine if Satoshi were paid in Devcoins instead. If Satoshi had millions of Devcoins, or even billions, it just would not work because there is no reason to mine Devcoins when 90% of profits go to the developers. Ethicoin has the advantage here in that it's fairly distributed 50/50 which to me makes a lot of sense.

Actually i suspect it makes less sense.

I think it might make more sense to limit each group/category to 10%, not just the miners.

Like maybe 10% for miners, 10% for writers, 10% for coders, 10% for businesses, 10% for media presences (e.g. websites), 10% for hardware (the chips and circuit boards and 3d printers and spaceships and so on), etc. not sure of 10 good categories offhand so maybe a few floating tithes, used to add focus to one or more of the categories at times when a specific category is temporarily needing more work than the others?

Half for merged-mining, half for everyone else seems way too miner-centric, but I guess that is why they don't plan to merged-mine: they are struggling to come up with the next major pump and dump coin so obviously need the miners to get lots of money fast and to get the lion's share, and merged mining would too clearly undercut the "importance" of the pump and dumpers er I mean miners...

-MarkM-


Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
marticps
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 102
Merit: 10



View Profile WWW
June 12, 2013, 08:10:38 AM
 #3356

everything he said

Absolutely agree.

BTC: 1D8PbvnLDrfEC78Q7fbiqxvdm7kML4hiqT | DVC: 1GftqKkDcjAQzQT9544vzyPBYBY8FL6qQy
Share and grow: Creative Commons, Copyleft | Earn Devcoins by Writing
killerstorm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1015



View Profile
June 12, 2013, 08:18:44 AM
 #3357

i read a mention earlier that we need people to buy things with devcoin, and was tempted to point out right there that actually a lot seems to depend on WHAT people buy, or maybe on WHERE/HOW they buy it.

I don't see how it is relevant. What matters is supply and demand, and for trading it means how much time coins spend in wallets of merchants and their customers. Higher velocity means lower demand.

So if you want a boost to market cap, you need a kind of a project which freezes coins it gets... A perfect example would be a kind of forum which requires you to destroy some amount of Devcoins to prove that you aren't a scammer.

It is possible to approach this on cryptocurrency design level: since permainflationary alt-coins like Devcoin do not depend on fees, you can make it so fees are destroyed when transaction is made.

Higher number of transaction means that that more devcoins are destroyed... And if there is some trade, in the long term you get a situation where amount of coins which are mined approximately equals to amount which is destroyed.

Then, say, if you make transaction fee equal to 1% of transaction, you get 1% of total trading volume in economy for bounties and miners.

Freicoin's demurrage does something similar, but they got it backwards: currently they starve miners through obligatory donations to foundation, but in a long run miners will get 5% of total trade volume, which is just insane if total trading volume is high. (And foundation gets nothing.) It shouldn't be called Freicoin, it should be called MinerCoin.

Chromia: a better dapp platform
killerstorm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1015



View Profile
June 12, 2013, 08:42:29 AM
 #3358

I think it might make more sense to limit each group/category to 10%, not just the miners.

Yes. Perhaps like this:

1. Number of shares for each category is limited.
2. Each category has its own person (or several) responsible for bounty allocation.
3. That person should periodically report what bounties were allocated and what tangible results were achieved. Preferably with statistics.
4. If category eats through all shares allocated to it, bounties should be made smaller, or request can be made to increase limit of shares. But in that case request should provide some justification (e.g. explain how it helps to grow market cap) and maybe people (other category managers?) should vote on it.

Chromia: a better dapp platform
weisoq
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 720
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 12, 2013, 09:11:17 AM
 #3359

One of the writers on devtome, Wiser, posted this article outlining their experience and ideas for the project. I think it's definitely worth a read and some thinking through:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=on_writing_and_market_forces
weisoq
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 720
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 12, 2013, 09:52:33 AM
Last edit: June 12, 2013, 10:22:33 AM by weisoq
 #3360

If it isn't working now, why should I believe it can work 5 years from now when there will be better alternatives for sure? This is the Devcoin moment where it either finds a way to get everyone working for it, or next year the infrastructure to work for Bitcoin will be set up and no one will care about Devcoin.

Ethicoin has a chance to fill the void and possibly fill the niche so I'm waiting to see what they do and Litecoin isn't exactly Bitcoin so they have a couple years and then they too will be in the same position of Devcoin. Bitcoin is about to go mainstream in 2014 and if Devcoin isn't being used by all of us by that time then I would say it may be too late.

And when I say used by all of us, I mean anyone who wants a job on this forum should be able to find a job which pays in a significant amount of Devcoin if they are willing to do the job. I know people will say Devcoin was set up to pay developers, but most people on this forum are developers and how many of us are paid in Devcoin right now?

Bounties are not a very good way to do things. Subscription models like what Coinbase is offering could kill Devcoin once enough podcasters and bloggers switch over. Writers just starting out will use Devcoin but once they become successful they'll sell their works for Bitcoin. Journalists may have to go with a Bitcoin subscription model because Devcoin just wont pay them enough in $. I can't believe I'm the only one who can see this coming.

The deflationary model is right. You don't agree for philosophical reasons but to anyone who owns Bitcoins which are worth $100 each, and who owns ASICminer shares worth 2.5 BTC each, or who is mining with an ASIC right now, why would these people have a problem with the 21 million Bitcoin limit?
My disagreements are on economic, financial and rationality grounds and not for philiosophical reasons (although I suppose every and any view could be defined as philiosophical). I have bitcoins, like you and most here and sure I'd love bitcoin to work. But it won't. The primary reasons for this are that of replication and deflation.

I won't reiterate my thoughts there again ad nauseum, but I do think you need to flip your points around to the perspective of somebody who doesn't own Bitcoins worth $100 or ASICminer shares worth 2.5 BTC and ask why such an individual or group would purchase Bitcoin rather than an alternative, when Bitcoin does not satisfy most basic criteria of a currency. Bitcoin is not about to go mainstream, it can't go mainstream as is. The issue is similar to the debates on this forum about fractional reserve lending, credit etc - the question is not whether these things are possible with bitcoin, it's why applying rationality and choice anybody would utilise bitcoin for such purposes. They wouldn't. It would make no sense to do so.

I appreciate we don't agree and I welcome your perspective as it's structured and thought through, but if Bitcoin does not address some very straightforward problems any objective observer has to conclude it's either an outright scam, or a slightly less scammy pyramid scheme, or suffers such inherent flaws that it's rendered useless for the purposes claimed, or at best a Bitcoin 2.0 will be along to correct the flaws. Either way, each of those options means there is a significant probability of Bitcoin 1.0 having a future value of 0 beyond a niche group or facilitation mechanism.

The reason I persist with these points is because it bothers me to view a group that could be affecting real change in societal empowerment and subversion of state dictates (which are not all bad, but as we have little choice I have a problem with them) instead prefering to remain in their own bubble.

Remaining blinkered to the reality that just waiting for change and for society's economic, demographic and financial structures to mould themselves to Bitcoin's economics will not happen. Rather will result in the forces that saw the promise of Bitcoin gain some initial credence over broad monetary failings and inequities doing the same to Bitcoin's monetary failings and inequities and finding a better alternative. This is not a philosophical point, it's just the way the world works.

Ethicoin has the same problem. Devcoin is also not perfect, but the unlimited blockchain actually fascilitates much more than Bitcoin. I'm not sure if this was technically ever intended as such beyond the payout equity element, but it is what it is. If it persists Devcoin should over time settle to a price that gives me the ability to buy some, pay a plumber, who pays his window cleaner, who pays to have his computer repaired ...etc... over the long-term with some certainty of forward value until somebody in that chain needs and transfers to fiat. Constant exchange. This will never be possible with Bitcoin as is.

So you are probably correct that Bitcoin works very well for those who already have some, provided they realise their gains before they become losses. Alternatively yes a Bitcoin could be worth anything in the future as a commodity traded between a niche group, but that's a significant gamble and waste of resources in the meantime. I attribute far greater value to a medium of exchange that could in the future increasingly eliminate the requirement for fiat transactions in the fee-based private and state financial system. So yes that's my gamble but I work on probability not prayers, and I think the probability that at some point there is better broad appreciation of workable economic reality > probability that an economically flawed and skewed system will subvert reality. I don't know whether that will be devcoin but it will be a similar 'inflationary' concept, because it has to be to compensate for world realities.
Pages: « 1 ... 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 [168] 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!