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Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 369305 times)
Vlad2Vlad
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June 08, 2013, 04:27:09 AM
 #3181

Not sure what you're talking about with the $2 an hour thing Vlad. I got 17.2 shares last round = ~6179641dvc = ~7.6btc = ~$823 at current exchange rates. Now, I posted some stuff I had written in the past, and I also got some shares for programming work (which actually took more time than writing), but assuming I had got those shares for writing 17k words, that'd mean I had spent over 400hrs, at ~40 words an hour. I definitely write faster than that!

I think if you're writing about something you know a lot about, 400 words an hour is a reasonable pace, which would give an estimate of about $20 an hour. Not bad for freelance writing. Granted, some people might write slower than that, and the exchange rate is crashing a bit, but it seems to me writing is still worth your while. I haven't had as much time this round to write (finals week in my university right now), and it is a bit discouraging seeing how many words the top writers have contributed, while I've only written about 4000. But even if there are twice as many shares that is still about $100! And I don't know about your situation, but as a college student, an extra $100 a month is very helpful. Smiley

You're talking about yesterday.  Round 24 and soon 25 has gone down by at least a factor of 4 if not more.  First, the value of devcoins has been cut by roughly 60% and then the amount of coins per share is down by at least 60%.  That's closer to a factor of 5 or 6 than a factor of 4 so take your $20 per hour and we're closer to my $2 per hour neighborhood than your $20.

Being a student is one thing. If you were a skilled computer programmer would you work for $5 per hour, $3, $2 per hour?  That's the neighborhood we're in.

I'm not complaining, nobody is forcing anyone to contribute.  I was simply pointing out a statistic, a fact and I mentioned that it may not make any difference as there may be lots of people, like students or trained professionals in 3rd world countries who think $20 per day is a good deal.

Like I said earlier, I'm excited and curious to see what happens in round 5 because unlike round 22, I see much wider and deeper awareness for round 25.  Should be interesting.


Good luck!

Edit:  here's an easy way to figure out the change:  last round we got 359,000 per share and I actually paid .00041 cash for devcoin on vircurex.

So for last round we got 359,000 X $.00041 = $147

This round I'm guessing a share will be roughly 140,000 coins times $.00020 (the actual bid is lower than this right now) so then your total per share this round is $28.  And it keeps heading lower for some reason.

So from $147 to $28 it's pretty much what I guessed, a change by a factor of 5, which means this round and maybe even the next is worth 20% (1/5) compared to last round so last round is not a good gauge to use for time value or opportunity cost.

I think devcoin will bottom soon and eventually go up on increased global demand and and/or positive catalysts, but I doubt we'll ever see large shares like last round (359K) or especially the round prior to that (1.41 million).

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June 08, 2013, 04:38:32 AM
 #3182

On the bright side, possibly if the pay doesn't seem great people will not be as eager to write just for the sake of writing / for the sake of the money. I know I don't feel like oh gosh I have to write something else I am missing out on potential income, instead I now am more likely to only bother to write something when there is something that needs to be there. Instead of perusing my lists of pages looking for more gaps I can fill in I am now off doing other things and will probably only be posting to the devtome when something comes up that should have a devtome page about it.

For example right now I am looking into setting up an OpenSimulator server; if I get that running and some regions set up in it then maybe I will make a devtome entry about one or more of the regions.

Whereas when each share was a lot of money it constantly nagged at the back of my mind that really I should just try to think of something to write in devtome because that would pay better than whatever else I might consider doing with my time.

-MarkM-

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June 08, 2013, 04:43:41 AM
 #3183

On the bright side, possibly if the pay doesn't seem great people will not be as eager to write just for the sake of writing / for the sake of the money. I know I don't feel like oh gosh I have to write something else I am missing out on potential income, instead I now am more likely to only bother to write something when there is something that needs to be there. Instead of perusing my lists of pages looking for more gaps I can fill in I am now off doing other things and will probably only be posting to the devtome when something comes up that should have a devtome page about it.

For example right now I am looking into setting up an OpenSimulator server; if I get that running and some regions set up in it then maybe I will make a devtome entry about one or more of the regions.

Whereas when each share was a lot of money it constantly nagged at the back of my mind that really I should just try to think of something to write in devtome because that would pay better than whatever else I might consider doing with my time.

-MarkM-


This is an excellent point as well, Smiley. My only fear is quality is going to drop considerably. There really needs to be someone (or a group) there to judge that.

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Luckybit
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June 08, 2013, 04:44:08 AM
 #3184

I gotta correct myself.  I said a few days ago there were a few people with 70+K words so I asked why a winner was announced a few days early.  I looked at the distribution again and the people who show 70K or more that's actually their total.  One has to look at the last column (Payout) to see the total from this round or round 24.  And in that case there's nobody even close to the 77K "Lawyer" did in which case I see why the results were announced.  

Man, it was much harder than I thought to do a significant amount of writing without burning out.  Wish I could program, that would be a lot more fun.

Congrats to Lawyer, 77K is a crazy amount to write.  I nearly broke myself and I got significantly less than that. lol.

I have over 80k registered for this round...

Are you talking about round 24?  I didn't see anybody with 80K. If you do then give a heads up cause you're probably in first place.  I think first round ends at 93,300.  That's what I've seen on here from reputable posters.

Make sure you're reading the latest list:

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_earnings_24.csv

Also, the post just before mine has the right numbers.

Thanks for the updated list.  I remember like 3 or 4 days ago Jaisn asking for "Lawyer's" address to ship him the first place prize which was a tablet.  I'm not sure why this was done almost a week prematurely.  Perhaps cause there was nobody close to "Lawyer" with such little time left.  

I hope you didn't lose your prize.  Congrats on 80K, that's really a hard thing to do, unless you have pre-existing articles already.  It's good for devcoin to see so much more content flowing out.  I wonder how much a share will be worth in round 24?  My gut feeling is around 145,000 coins as opposed to 359,000 for round 23 and around 1.41 million for round 22.  I'm also curious to see how many people continue contributing with both, the value of devcoin and the actual coins per share, having plummeted this past round.  

Cause at this point it's like working for about $2 per hour, unless of course, you have articles which you have already written for other sites.  And I think going forward as we get more and more third wolrd country contributors from places like Asia, India and Eastern Europe, it should only get more and more competitive.  That's great for devcoin but not so good if you're trying to earn and you have to give up a more profitable opportunity cost when compared to the current payout of devcoin. I'm banking on the idea that devcoin will reach much higher levels eventually.  

Good luck!

I don't think the long term prospects of Devcoin are very bright. The more people who write, the less pie there is for writers? That means it's a zero sum game. Why are people actually trying to attract more writers if the case is that quality will go down and so will the pay? It doesn't seem to be good for Devcoin either.

Long term the quality of articles of Devcoin will begin to reflect what writers are paid to write them.
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June 08, 2013, 04:45:33 AM
 #3185

On the bright side, possibly if the pay doesn't seem great people will not be as eager to write just for the sake of writing / for the sake of the money. I know I don't feel like oh gosh I have to write something else I am missing out on potential income, instead I now am more likely to only bother to write something when there is something that needs to be there. Instead of perusing my lists of pages looking for more gaps I can fill in I am now off doing other things and will probably only be posting to the devtome when something comes up that should have a devtome page about it.

For example right now I am looking into setting up an OpenSimulator server; if I get that running and some regions set up in it then maybe I will make a devtome entry about one or more of the regions.

Whereas when each share was a lot of money it constantly nagged at the back of my mind that really I should just try to think of something to write in devtome because that would pay better than whatever else I might consider doing with my time.

-MarkM-


This is an excellent point as well, Smiley. My only fear is quality is going to drop considerably. There really needs to be someone (or a group) there to judge that.

The way to keep quality from dropping is to actually pay people enough money to care about quality. $50 an article is almost in that range, anything less and people will stop caring and of course more than $50 and people will care much more. It's a matter of the pay structure.

They need to adjust the pay structure.

On the bright side, possibly if the pay doesn't seem great people will not be as eager to write just for the sake of writing / for the sake of the money. I know I don't feel like oh gosh I have to write something else I am missing out on potential income, instead I now am more likely to only bother to write something when there is something that needs to be there. Instead of perusing my lists of pages looking for more gaps I can fill in I am now off doing other things and will probably only be posting to the devtome when something comes up that should have a devtome page about it.

For example right now I am looking into setting up an OpenSimulator server; if I get that running and some regions set up in it then maybe I will make a devtome entry about one or more of the regions.

Whereas when each share was a lot of money it constantly nagged at the back of my mind that really I should just try to think of something to write in devtome because that would pay better than whatever else I might consider doing with my time.

-MarkM-



Ideally we would live in a world where everyone does not have to work for money. Unfortunately if people don't write then they cannot pay their bills, so people must write. This is why there has to be enough pay to go around so that there is at least a minimum expected amount of money people can get. If you basically leave it up to the market and tell people their words can be worth $50 a share this month, $20 a share the next month, $500 a share the next month, this is not stable enough for people to know how much they'll get paid. Basically it will amount to a form of gambling where people gamble with their words in hopes of writing at the right time. That is about the worst way to set up a market.

Some articles will be higher quality than others, why shouldn't those articles get bonus shares? Some articles will just be crap to get a lot of words written, why not reduce shares for those articles? And why restrict share distribution to per round? If people don't get paid enough in one round why not allow them to roll over into the next around until they get some bare minimum amount?

There are a lot of areas to be improved upon but basically Devcoin got the math all wrong. The math just does not work and will not work and as soon as third world writers and spammers discover Devtome then Devtome is dead.
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June 08, 2013, 04:49:03 AM
 #3186



I don't think the long term prospects of Devcoin are very bright. The more people who write, the less pie there is for writers? That means it's a zero sum game. Why are people actually trying to attract more writers if the case is that quality will go down and so will the pay? It doesn't seem to be good for Devcoin either.

Long term the quality of articles of Devcoin will begin to reflect what writers are paid to write them.
Quote/
----------------------------------------


You may end up being correct.  This is truly a unique experiment for a business plan.  On the surface it's almost ideal but the big question is:  can it be sustained and will quality improve or worsen as time goes on and shares shrink.  

MarkM, made a good point that people won't rush out to just write anything cause the shares are large.  At the same time you're correct too, one would expect quality to worsen as talented or educated people rather spend their time where they can maximize their earnings potential.  

It remains to be seen.  I'm excited to see what happens.

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June 08, 2013, 04:49:30 AM
 #3187

On the bright side, possibly if the pay doesn't seem great people will not be as eager to write just for the sake of writing / for the sake of the money. I know I don't feel like oh gosh I have to write something else I am missing out on potential income, instead I now am more likely to only bother to write something when there is something that needs to be there. Instead of perusing my lists of pages looking for more gaps I can fill in I am now off doing other things and will probably only be posting to the devtome when something comes up that should have a devtome page about it.

For example right now I am looking into setting up an OpenSimulator server; if I get that running and some regions set up in it then maybe I will make a devtome entry about one or more of the regions.

Whereas when each share was a lot of money it constantly nagged at the back of my mind that really I should just try to think of something to write in devtome because that would pay better than whatever else I might consider doing with my time.

-MarkM-


This is an excellent point as well, Smiley. My only fear is quality is going to drop considerably. There really needs to be someone (or a group) there to judge that.

The way to keep quality from dropping is to actually pay people enough money to care about quality. $50 an article is almost in that range, anything less and people will stop caring and of course more than $50 and people will care much more. It's a matter of the pay structure.

They need to adjust the pay structure.

I agree that things seem off. As we get more writers, pay goes down. This attracts more writers that are willing to work for almost nothing, which means quality writers will avoid the system. This will keep deteriorating until the only people benefiting anymore are those who are posting their spam or other worthless stuff.

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acs26
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June 08, 2013, 04:53:04 AM
 #3188

Guys, what do I do?

My DevCoin wallet doesn't work, because I can't download the bundle correctly.

(Also, has this round ended already?)
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June 08, 2013, 04:55:03 AM
 #3189

Guys, what do I do?

My DevCoin wallet doesn't work, because I can't download the bundle correctly.

(Also, has this round ended already?)

No, it ends at 93,300, maybe 2 more days.  What OS are you using?  Why isn't working, not downloading or you're not seeing any connections to the server?  You have to give it time to synch all 92,500 blocks, then it will work.  

The download is straight forward I even had an easy time downloading it especially the new client with the green D logo.

If the zip file isn't working use the .exe link.  That's the one I ended up having to use.  32 bit works just fine on Windows 64.  Good luck.

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June 08, 2013, 05:04:03 AM
 #3190



I don't think the long term prospects of Devcoin are very bright. The more people who write, the less pie there is for writers? That means it's a zero sum game. Why are people actually trying to attract more writers if the case is that quality will go down and so will the pay? It doesn't seem to be good for Devcoin either.

Long term the quality of articles of Devcoin will begin to reflect what writers are paid to write them.
Quote/
----------------------------------------


You may end up being correct.  This is truly a unique experiment for a business plan.  On the surface it's almost ideal but the big question is:  can it be sustained and will quality improve or worsen as time goes on and shares shrink.  

MarkM, made a good point that people won't rush out to just write anything cause the shares are large.  At the same time you're correct too, one would expect quality to worsen as talented or educated people rather spend their time where they can maximize their earnings potential.  

It remains to be seen.  I'm excited to see what happens.

My opinion is, if you reduce the pay so that it's no longer worth it to truly dig deep to write something great then less great works will be created. Rewarding writers only per word is too limited. Why not allow a rating system so that highly rated works get bonus shares? Also why are works essentially set per round? Over time when the shares shrink smaller and smaller they claim a lot of people just will stop writing as if everyone is of the same class as them or has the same amount of money? The people who need money the most will write whether the shares are $10 or $500 and I think globally those people vastly outnumber those of privilege who can write as they feel like it.

I do think quality will go down but it doesn't have to. The only change necessary to keep the quality writers is to change the system so that quality is rewarded. This can be accomplished by allowing readers to link a vote to an email address and then rate each article they read. The way to allow this is to link it either by verified email, or by Bitcointalk username and let people vote and maybe even pay them in Devcoins to review/vote.
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June 08, 2013, 06:50:49 AM
 #3191

If devcoin only attracts people who are going to dump it, it's value will go. If there is an incentive to keep devcoin, or some thing that users can buy or invest in then it becomes more viable.

There are infinitely many Devcoins, finite places to spend it, and no logical reason to save it according to basic math of unlimited supply and limited demand.

Everyone who is writing for Devcoins should expect to see their shares dwindle to nothing in the coming round. You'll be lucky if you get a few hundred bucks from 20,000+ words.
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June 08, 2013, 07:07:26 AM
 #3192

I think a bigger problem is now that DVC is becoming more popular, people are earning DVC and than cashing them out, instead of holding on to them. Over time this will cause their value to keep getting lower and lower. While there may be way more articles written in round 24 than round 23, the DVC/BTC value has HALVED. The constant selling of DVC is unsustainable. Embarrassed

Also sadly, it seems that the original goal of paying for open source development is falling to the wayside as well, as the value of shares plummets. I was thinking about trying for the forum bounty (still might when I'm done with finals), but at this point, 12 shares for all that work seems like nothing compared to the hundreds of shares people are getting for writing.

I still have faith in the vision of DVC though, and I hope we can come up with some solutions to these problems as a community. Smiley

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June 08, 2013, 07:40:59 AM
 #3193

A vision is something considered unrealistic at the moment. DVC needs visionaries, we can say, able to bring this coin a spotlight. Unless it is carried to the light by something or someone within 6 months, I cannot see a bright future for DVC. DVC will remain a "bonsai" among the growing numbers of altcoins.

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June 08, 2013, 08:14:58 AM
 #3194



I don't think the long term prospects of Devcoin are very bright. The more people who write, the less pie there is for writers? That means it's a zero sum game. Why are people actually trying to attract more writers if the case is that quality will go down and so will the pay? It doesn't seem to be good for Devcoin either.

Long term the quality of articles of Devcoin will begin to reflect what writers are paid to write them.
Quote/
----------------------------------------


You may end up being correct.  This is truly a unique experiment for a business plan.  On the surface it's almost ideal but the big question is:  can it be sustained and will quality improve or worsen as time goes on and shares shrink.  

MarkM, made a good point that people won't rush out to just write anything cause the shares are large.  At the same time you're correct too, one would expect quality to worsen as talented or educated people rather spend their time where they can maximize their earnings potential.  

It remains to be seen.  I'm excited to see what happens.

My opinion is, if you reduce the pay so that it's no longer worth it to truly dig deep to write something great then less great works will be created. Rewarding writers only per word is too limited. Why not allow a rating system so that highly rated works get bonus shares? Also why are works essentially set per round? Over time when the shares shrink smaller and smaller they claim a lot of people just will stop writing as if everyone is of the same class as them or has the same amount of money? The people who need money the most will write whether the shares are $10 or $500 and I think globally those people vastly outnumber those of privilege who can write as they feel like it.

I do think quality will go down but it doesn't have to. The only change necessary to keep the quality writers is to change the system so that quality is rewarded. This can be accomplished by allowing readers to link a vote to an email address and then rate each article they read. The way to allow this is to link it either by verified email, or by Bitcointalk username and let people vote and maybe even pay them in Devcoins to review/vote.



Most revenue-sharing sites reward per visitor, not per upvote or per word (the per word thing is a hangover from print journalism).

Upvotes can be manipulated (remember how the old Digg had cliques who upvotes each other's stuff to get to the home page).

The only reliable measure of whether a piece is any good is visitors - are people reading it, is Google featuring it in their search engine, are people sharing it on reddit? If you use an analytics package like Google analytics, which filters out all the bot hits and only counts the views from a browser, you can get a pretty reliable idea of which articles are popular.

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June 08, 2013, 08:37:14 AM
 #3195

I agree 100% on it.
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June 08, 2013, 08:45:54 AM
 #3196

What about the logo contest?

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June 08, 2013, 08:50:54 AM
 #3197

AFAIK and remember, it is planned for july.
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June 08, 2013, 10:53:18 AM
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Also sadly, it seems that the original goal of paying for open source development is falling to the wayside as well, as the value of shares plummets. I was thinking about trying for the forum bounty (still might when I'm done with finals), but at this point, 12 shares for all that work seems like nothing compared to the hundreds of shares people are getting for writing.


I have totally the same feeling! I've been busy recently and planned to hold some of my developing activities on till mid-June, such as adding bitcointalk feature of the devcoin faucet, and a btc-dvc-accepting gamble site, and probably a new exchange, etc. but when I back, I checked the shares for round 24 and found there's nearly a thousand, good, I thought, we have more new developers... but holy shit, most of them are writers for devtome! Does we devcoin is DEVcoin but not WRITEcoin ? could we have more sane way to promote devtome and not destroy the developer community? I feel despire, 'cause no matter how hard of my work, I just get 2 or 6 or 12 shares, from those develop work, but those writers could easily write 12000 word at 2 or 3 nights and get the same.

I've no aggression to the writers, but just want to make our community to notice this thing, is devtome more important than open source developers? I'd suggest some way, e.g. to limit the shares on devtome not exceed the half of whole shares, or as others said, use read times or vote links, instead of just words to distribute shares. just some random thoughts, not thinking very carefully, and forgive my english for I'm not native speaker.

Earn Devcoins by Writing
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IXC: xnRKo3qSDdcPJ4pgTLER3orkquUVQXeLwf
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June 08, 2013, 11:09:31 AM
 #3199


Also sadly, it seems that the original goal of paying for open source development is falling to the wayside as well, as the value of shares plummets. I was thinking about trying for the forum bounty (still might when I'm done with finals), but at this point, 12 shares for all that work seems like nothing compared to the hundreds of shares people are getting for writing.


I have totally the same feeling! I've been busy recently and planned to hold some of my developing activities on till mid-June, such as adding bitcointalk feature of the devcoin faucet, and a btc-dvc-accepting gamble site, and probably a new exchange, etc. but when I back, I checked the shares for round 24 and found there's nearly a thousand, good, I thought, we have more new developers... but holy shit, most of them are writers for devtome! Does we devcoin is DEVcoin but not WRITEcoin ? could we have more sane way to promote devtome and not destroy the developer community? I feel despire, 'cause no matter how hard of my work, I just get 2 or 6 or 12 shares, from those develop work, but those writers could easily write 12000 word at 2 or 3 nights and get the same.

I've no aggression to the writers, but just want to make our community to notice this thing, is devtome more important than open source developers? I'd suggest some way, e.g. to limit the shares on devtome not exceed the half of whole shares, or as others said, use read times or vote links, instead of just words to distribute shares. just some random thoughts, not thinking very carefully, and forgive my english for I'm not native speaker.


+1

BTC: 1D8PbvnLDrfEC78Q7fbiqxvdm7kML4hiqT | DVC: 1GftqKkDcjAQzQT9544vzyPBYBY8FL6qQy
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June 08, 2013, 12:03:07 PM
 #3200


Also sadly, it seems that the original goal of paying for open source development is falling to the wayside as well, as the value of shares plummets. I was thinking about trying for the forum bounty (still might when I'm done with finals), but at this point, 12 shares for all that work seems like nothing compared to the hundreds of shares people are getting for writing.


I have totally the same feeling! I've been busy recently and planned to hold some of my developing activities on till mid-June, such as adding bitcointalk feature of the devcoin faucet, and a btc-dvc-accepting gamble site, and probably a new exchange, etc. but when I back, I checked the shares for round 24 and found there's nearly a thousand, good, I thought, we have more new developers... but holy shit, most of them are writers for devtome! Does we devcoin is DEVcoin but not WRITEcoin ? could we have more sane way to promote devtome and not destroy the developer community? I feel despire, 'cause no matter how hard of my work, I just get 2 or 6 or 12 shares, from those develop work, but those writers could easily write 12000 word at 2 or 3 nights and get the same.

I've no aggression to the writers, but just want to make our community to notice this thing, is devtome more important than open source developers? I'd suggest some way, e.g. to limit the shares on devtome not exceed the half of whole shares, or as others said, use read times or vote links, instead of just words to distribute shares. just some random thoughts, not thinking very carefully, and forgive my english for I'm not native speaker.

+1
I just checked and looks like I should be entitled to be in the Bitcoin dev list as I'm actively developping pywallet again for more than 2 months. I'm not sure I'd receive anything from that though with all the writing shares.
That's not a problem though as it's Unthinkingbit's coin and it's normal he chooses the priority. But whatever the priority is (writing/developping/other), I'd just like it to be stated clearly

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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