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Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 369137 times)
weisoq
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May 16, 2013, 11:35:52 AM
 #2421

I don't think changing the mechanics of a cryptocurrency is a small thing. The decimal issue is arbitrary really; I understand what you mean about perception, although I quite like that it makes it more accessible.

Dilution - here I actually seem to disagree with most of the crypto community. I think it's the deflationary nature of most currencies that will largely consign them to the historic dustbin long-term as a standalone winning idea. As any sort of global medium of exchange, to facilitate transactions, and most importantly debt, it needs to be stable. Such an approach assumes an economic system that no longer exists or at best isn't coming back soon. In fact this deflation is one reason people keep creating new chains.

With a consumer, credit, debt fuelled economy one cannot build in deflation and expect it to last with broad appeal. Doesn't mean it can't work for some as an asset, but could become a hot potato as a liability. Why would I want to owe units of an inherently appreciating currency? I wouldn't. Imagine say bitcoin really took off in global trade, I have no doubt that to deal with the deflationary nature there'd be more blockchains created. In fact I have a basic thesis with cryptocurrencies that, after adjusting for numbers/creation rate/other technicalities, they will in the long term all converge to the same price, because there is zero limitation on creating a new one and therefore no real scarcity beyond perception. Where would you price an asset/commodity of unlimited quantity?

Devcoin approaches it differently. It's technically deflationary, but for all practical purposes it isn't. So rather than being a downside it's an upside for adoption especially when paired with debt backing. There's debt, that's why it can work. There may be x number of dvc, but if y (where y>x) are owed, and apparently this is the case, this is quite different to current perception. Again contrary to most people's opinion, if the bitcoin or litecoin or whatever algorithm can be duplicated-ish ad-infinitum there's an argument to say the supply of those is actual less limited than a currency with a defined constant block rate serving a particular function that doesn't lend itself to direct replication. Just my opinion though and not a statement against btc, ltc or any other concepts out there.

Your coin, quite a build up so look forward to seeing it. Payments - guess that's a matter for the founders, but I think the essence is one of open-source.

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May 16, 2013, 11:41:24 AM
 #2422

There is massively more debt denominated in DeVCoins than there are DeVCoins. I don't even know how many years it would take for DeVCoins equal to just the current debt to be created, and of course unless the debt is paid interest will have increased it by then.

I suppose it might be interesting to try to figure out whether the current interest is accumulating debt faster than coins are being minted!

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May 16, 2013, 11:57:31 AM
 #2423

There is massively more debt denominated in DeVCoins than there are DeVCoins. I don't even know how many years it would take for DeVCoins equal to just the current debt to be created, and of course unless the debt is paid interest will have increased it by then.

I suppose it might be interesting to try to figure out whether the current interest is accumulating debt faster than coins are being minted!

-MarkM-


I'm sorry, what do you mean?  devcoins or its parent company currently has massive unpaid debt?  About how much of each round's coins goes toward servicing the debt each month?  Cause if that's the case, unless there's a viable business plan in the works this will be a downward spiral until so many devcoins are issued that they will literally be worth less than the cost to buy or sell them, or basically not worth selling even if someone were to give them away for free.  This is the kind of information which is next to impossible to find out about any digital coins out there and part of what makes all these coins very risky.  One more reason why mining is a better idea over outright buying them....well, when mining used to work.

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May 16, 2013, 12:04:51 PM
 #2424

I don't think changing the mechanics of a cryptocurrency is a small thing. The decimal issue is arbitrary really; I understand what you mean about perception, although I quite like that it makes it more accessible.

Dilution - here I actually seem to disagree with most of the crypto community. I think it's the deflationary nature of most currencies that will largely consign them to the historic dustbin long-term as a standalone winning idea. As any sort of global medium of exchange, to facilitate transactions, and most importantly debt, it needs to be stable. Such an approach assumes an economic system that no longer exists or at best isn't coming back soon. In fact this deflation is one reason people keep creating new chains.

With a consumer, credit, debt fuelled economy one cannot build in deflation and expect it to last with broad appeal. Doesn't mean it can't work for some as an asset, but could become a hot potato as a liability. Why would I want to owe units of an inherently appreciating currency? I wouldn't. Imagine say bitcoin really took off in global trade, I have no doubt that to deal with the deflationary nature there'd be more blockchains created. In fact I have a basic thesis with cryptocurrencies that, after adjusting for numbers/creation rate/other technicalities, they will in the long term all converge to the same price, because there is zero limitation on creating a new one and therefore no real scarcity beyond perception. Where would you price an asset/commodity of unlimited quantity?

Devcoin approaches it differently. It's technically deflationary, but for all practical purposes it isn't. So rather than being a downside it's an upside for adoption especially when paired with debt backing. There's debt, that's why it can work. There may be x number of dvc, but if y (where y>x) are owed, and apparently this is the case, this is quite different to current perception. Again contrary to most people's opinion, if the bitcoin or litecoin or whatever algorithm can be duplicated-ish ad-infinitum there's an argument to say the supply of those is actual less limited than a currency with a defined constant block rate serving a particular function that doesn't lend itself to direct replication. Just my opinion though and not a statement against btc, ltc or any other concepts out there.

Your coin, quite a build up so look forward to seeing it. Payments - guess that's a matter for the founders, but I think the essence is one of open-source.

Point taken but where do you stop diliuting?  eventually dilution leads to non-existence and debt is never a good thing unless you're borrowing at 3% to invest at 7% and i'm sure devcoin is lucky to be borrowing at anything under 10% as it has no real assets and is perceived as high risk.  so combine the debt which is growing and dilution which is also growing and growing very fast and you've got a 2 headed monster which will soon eat the entire house unless there's a plan.  A great and doable business plan.  WEll, does anyone know of one?   Cause I'm not sure this digital currency revolution is gonna come fast enough to drive devcoin prices sky high soon enough and fast enough to save it.  Now i'm getting a bit worried.  But there is still hope albeit, it's looking bleak from what I'm hearing now.

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May 16, 2013, 12:23:57 PM
 #2425

I'm sorry, what do you mean?  devcoins or its parent company currently has massive unpaid debt?  About how much of each round's coins goes toward servicing the debt each month?  Cause if that's the case, unless there's a viable business plan in the works this will be a downward spiral until so many devcoins are issued that they will literally be worth less than the cost to buy or sell them, or basically not worth selling even if someone were to give them away for free.  This is the kind of information which is next to impossible to find out about any digital coins out there and part of what makes all these coins very risky.  One more reason why mining is a better idea over outright buying them....well, when mining used to work.

A lot of games give players various stuff when they start the game.

This can lead to flooding the game with "starting gear" simply by creating thousands of player accounts purely for the purpose of accumulating all the free stuff new players get.

Thus we load players with debt, that is, we assume their starting gear was obtained by taking out loans.

Over time this has led to vast amounts of debt, and because most other currencies in the game appreciated in value much faster than DeVCoins, DeVCoins became the preferred currency to re-finance debt into for any players who could find refinancing denominated in DeVCoins.

General Financial Corp specialised in providing such financing, it managed to talk the Martians into loaning it a huge amount of wealth and into denominating that debt in DeVCoins instead of in, for example, Martian BotCoins.

Then GFC refinanced a whole bunch of intergalactic mining corps, in DeVCoins but at double the interest rate GFC was paying to the Martians for their bulk loan.

As can be seen from the tables and plots at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html this has worked out very lucrative for GFC, and thus for the value of GFC shares (the asset known as sGFC).

These loans are of course all secured loans; in fact, almost all the corps did in fact get repossessed already, and are now controlled by repo corps. The intergalactic mining operations are not only lucrative, they are also essential to the security of the home galaxies, because looking at all the similar intergalactic games out there we can see that typically species or races or guilds or groups or corps or entities or whatnot that you meet out among far flung galaxies are very hostile. So the home galaxies need this inner set of mining operations in far galaxies in order to build jump gates to reach even farther galaxies where they will set up their outer defense galaxies.

So ultimately the civilised worlds cannot really allow the mining operations to fail, else some day hordes of alien deathstars will inevitably descend upon the homeworlds like swarms of locusts.

-MarkM-

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weisoq
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May 16, 2013, 12:56:11 PM
 #2426

Point taken but where do you stop diliuting?  eventually dilution leads to non-existence and debt is never a good thing unless you're borrowing at 3% to invest at 7% and i'm sure devcoin is lucky to be borrowing at anything under 10% as it has no real assets and is perceived as high risk.  so combine the debt which is growing and dilution which is also growing and growing very fast and you've got a 2 headed monster which will soon eat the entire house unless there's a plan.  A great and doable business plan.  WEll, does anyone know of one?   Cause I'm not sure this digital currency revolution is gonna come fast enough to drive devcoin prices sky high soon enough and fast enough to save it.  Now i'm getting a bit worried.  But there is still hope albeit, it's looking bleak from what I'm hearing now.
I think you're misunderstanding the debt issue. Devcoin is a concept but also the currency. The debt is in devcoin to be repaid in devcoin, or other I believe. Devcoins are created once, per the blockchain, further claims are assets/liabilities. Even if there was a 'devcoin inc' who owed everything to elsewhere, for the sake of underwriting the sustainability of the currency it doesn't matter who owes whom. If you and I transact leaving me owing you $100 that transaction assures at least one more person/economic activity than previously has an interest in not letting the $ go to zero. This is the same with DVC or any other medium of exchange/store of value.

Some of this is going to come down to personal beliefs I guess, but I think you're also misunderstanding the nature of debt and dilution. Firstly, whether debt is a good thing or not depends on many factors. Prospective price appreciation, inflation/deflation, interest rate etc. And so whether dilution is a good thing also depends on similar factors, largely depending which side of a balance sheet you're on. This is the problem with non-dilutive currencies. With enough interests on both side of transactions a currency is sustainable. When a majority are just selling fiat to buy crypto and hoarding as an asset it isn't.

Oh, and in case you're wondering wtf (as I did, still do a bit to be fair) markm is referring to gaming and his developments in that area (markm and anybody else, please tell me where I'm wrong on the debt issue if I am).

Edit: markm, something just dawned on me from what you wrote - does your gaming development/creation actually incorporate real devcoin mining in the game? If so that closes a loop in my understanding of what you're saying.

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Balthozar
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May 16, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
 #2427



Awesome Smiley

I'm gonna be mining after this Smiley
And getting some pretty cool community oriented stuff going Smiley
And I'm going to drive traffic to Devtome Smiley
[/quote]

How are you gonna mine and what are you gonna mine?  I tried mining and it was worthless.  just a waste of electricity.  Maybe when my butterfly labs rigs get here it will be worth it but by then I doubt it since everyone will have one and the difficulty will go even higher.  If you know something new I'd appreciate hearing about it.   TIA
[/quote]

I mine alt currencies with my laptop, new stuff that pops up, I have a small stash of FRC and YAC, although I fear YAC may be a bust. When I get paid this round, I am going to build a rig to mine LTC and maybe DVC to speed up the network. Fin and I work together in some aspects of that.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:balthozar | Earn Devcoins by Writing | Virtual Currency Exchange
DVC:1kFhM8vtEzbZ43Z5wcadPvNrb4xFXbgze | YAC:YHjjwLgjVfsnANTeb9eKeU3rtyKsFNvVCq | BQC:bUu1W2JEQzVrbFvv3EU4gW6KY2J939JDe1 | WDC:WTqa866TFP6d9HWGpYm2AztDNNMFmQ365s | FRC:1N2x7s8F78WiSFCFQPszLqhWsP6Kk1RXVp | NVC:4KcR3Dcmxz1ZDLK3VA9oHxpG4C3oYMCPeV | FTC:6ugwSRQNXQKNb5EVwQVn4CLoZNpiitiQzt | PPC:PSnEL3tmJejkdAAwiBLxSqbCide1voSKXY
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May 16, 2013, 06:00:40 PM
 #2428

If you can't think of anything to write on Devtome, getting traffic is second best to earning coins for writing.

Some people may feel like getting traffic is hard, but there is a great new tool. It's a website that has people post a link that YOU choose on their facebook or twitter. You can also submit links for raw page views, as well as ask for facebook likes, comments and shares. So post your Devtome article links and get some easy traffic.

here's the link:
http://socialmediaexplode.com/?r=131994

The way it works is:
You earn coins for viewing YouTube videos, or tweeting things, or liking/viewing pages.
You use those coins and other people view/like etc YOUR stuff


Incase anyone missed ^^this^^ Smiley ^^^

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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May 16, 2013, 06:06:19 PM
 #2429




How are you gonna mine and what are you gonna mine?  I tried mining and it was worthless.  just a waste of electricity.  Maybe when my butterfly labs rigs get here it will be worth it but by then I doubt it since everyone will have one and the difficulty will go even higher.  If you know something new I'd appreciate hearing about it.   TIA

I mine alt currencies with my laptop, new stuff that pops up, I have a small stash of FRC and YAC, although I fear YAC may be a bust. When I get paid this round, I am going to build a rig to mine LTC and maybe DVC to speed up the network. Fin and I work together in some aspects of that.
[/quote]

Yeah, Litecoin is probably the best "mainstream" coin to mine right now. It's easier than bitcoin, but still a good value coin. I think feathercoins are even easier and people will trade those for litecoins I've heard...

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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May 16, 2013, 06:38:29 PM
 #2430

Hi Unthinkingbit,

Taking in consideration the normal use of DVC Logo, I choose this logo:

1st choice



As you asked, these are the other two

2nd choice



3rd choice



Thanks for all the logos, I've uploaded your first choice to:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#dead_sea_33

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May 16, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
 #2431

OK, I've done setup the crontab, it will be run at 00:30@UTC+0 every day, all results and logs could be viewed at http://d.evco.in/charity/
, you could see the round summary particularly at http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt

I also provide a log located at http://d.evco.in/charity.log, so everyone could check the details of the earning of his own and others.

In case anyone interested in the gen script, it's at http://d.evco.in/gen_charity.sh:

Quote
#!/bin/bash

ROUND=24
cd /home/devcoin/www/charity
git reset --hard
git pull
python devtome.py -round $ROUND
python marketing.py -round $ROUND
python account.py -round $ROUND

Thanks for running the account scripts. For this you'll get 1/5 of a share ongoing maintenance. Also, because the devtome script makes a backup of the articles, you also get 1/5 of a share for wiki backup.

There are no awards for running another account script, because the script downloads all of devtome which costs bandwidth.

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May 16, 2013, 07:22:54 PM
 #2432

Ssm2017 has been added to the bitcoin share list for developing Coins Wallet, a drupal module GUI wallet system used with a devcoin daemon, used by devda:
http://drupal.org/project/coins_wallet
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list

*Contributor: [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=117557 Ssm2017]
*Bitcoin Address: 1MKEmEkcJ1STcYCUoDwzhREqt2CjUJwre2
*Description: Founder of Coins Wallet, a drupal module GUI wallet system used with a devcoin daemon.
*Project Homepage: [http://drupal.org/project/coins_wallet Coins Wallet]
*Project License: GPL
*Project Type: Software

He's busy and can't spend much time developing his project. However, people who develop something that directly helps devcoin can go on the bitcoin share list with only 10 hours/month of work. People who develop stuff that doesn't directly help devcoin have to work 10 hours/week (40 hours/month) to stay on the list.

His wallet does not account for generation coins, however it is still useful as a place for people who want to diversify their devcoin holdings.

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May 17, 2013, 02:38:22 AM
 #2433

Really exciting to see DVC making huge strides recently!

I'll start working on a DVC portal website next week - if no one else is currently working on the project.

Just out of interest - what was the DVC value of a generation share for the last round which has just finished?

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May 17, 2013, 03:46:58 AM
 #2434

Really exciting to see DVC making huge strides recently!

I'll start working on a DVC portal website next week - if no one else is currently working on the project.

Just out of interest - what was the DVC value of a generation share for the last round which has just finished?

What is a portal?

And a share was between 320,000 and 370,000 I forget the exact number.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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May 17, 2013, 04:06:52 AM
 #2435

Devcoin discussion forum
http://homegrownsouth.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

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May 17, 2013, 04:29:25 AM
 #2436

Really exciting to see DVC making huge strides recently!

I'll start working on a DVC portal website next week - if no one else is currently working on the project.

Just out of interest - what was the DVC value of a generation share for the last round which has just finished?

I have one portal that is simple, and easily borrowed from ppcoin shameless... http://d.evco.in/

anyway, feel free to make your own, I'm not sophisticated at web design...

Earn Devcoins by Writing
BTC: 1Emfox1WswYcd2YucUskRzqfRWKkcm1Jut DVC: 1Emfox1WswYcd2YucUskRzqfRWKkcm1Jut
IXC: xnRKo3qSDdcPJ4pgTLER3orkquUVQXeLwf
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May 17, 2013, 04:31:20 AM
 #2437

Really exciting to see DVC making huge strides recently!

I'll start working on a DVC portal website next week - if no one else is currently working on the project.

Just out of interest - what was the DVC value of a generation share for the last round which has just finished?

I have one portal that is simple, and easily borrowed from ppcoin shameless... http://d.evco.in/

anyway, feel free to make your own, I'm not sophisticated at web design...


Oh, so portal is like... Collection of information almost. Or at least links where information can be gathered and things can be done.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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May 17, 2013, 04:35:21 AM
 #2438

I have a portal up already, just waiting on the dns to be directed now.

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
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May 17, 2013, 04:36:11 AM
 #2439

Really exciting to see DVC making huge strides recently!

I'll start working on a DVC portal website next week - if no one else is currently working on the project.

Just out of interest - what was the DVC value of a generation share for the last round which has just finished?

I have one portal that is simple, and easily borrowed from ppcoin shameless... http://d.evco.in/

anyway, feel free to make your own, I'm not sophisticated at web design...


Oh, so portal is like... Collection of information almost. Or at least links where information can be gathered and things can be done.

That other portal is a nice start Smiley Definitely borrows a little heavily from the PPC website though!

Fin: thanks for the info re the generation shares.

I imagine the portal to be a site which presents information about DVC in an aesthetically pleasing, easy to read way, as well as containing some updated information regarding current bounties. I want to make a website which looks very professional as Devcoin's public face - as the mission of Devcoin really is quite amazing and unique - I think a well designed website with an image slider and a few other bells and whistles will really help in raising the profile of DVC even more Smiley

EDIT: looks like jasinlee is already on the case.

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May 17, 2013, 04:59:47 AM
 #2440

Yeah, right now I am combining basic information into one page. Once the site is up I will go about making it pretty.

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
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