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Author Topic: [DEAD] DeepBit.net PPS+Prop,instant payouts, we pay for INVALID BLOCKS too  (Read 1452324 times)
Veldy
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May 13, 2011, 01:25:32 PM
 #1421

All aboard the 1Thash/s train! toot toot!

I say if a system can be brought down by something as simple as going over 50% then it was a poorly designed system and never should have been invented in the first place. Might as well test the theories on the 50% rumors now rather than later.

It isn't brought down by a pool going over fifty percent.  It is brought down by an attacker who beds control of AT LEAST FIFTY PLUS PERCENT.  The problem is that the amount of potential money at risk drives up massively with high prices and high hash rates.  Since we know from very recent history that if another large pool goes down, much of the hoard jumps to deepbit.  So an attack against Slush will send deepbit way over 50% which makes a much better tool for attack.  The larger the percentage of hashing power the greater damage that can be done before detection.

If this is allowed to happen, there are only two real winners; the attackers and AMD for selling so many cards for bitcoin mining.  A large attack would destroy bitcoin in its current state in my opinion.  If ignoring the possibility makes you feel better, then so be it ostrich.

I have seen absolutely nothing that has shown this attack as impossible or indeed improbable, but instead we put all of our faith in Tycho and a few others.

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mroth7684
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May 13, 2011, 01:37:05 PM
 #1422

It sounds like you want to obliterate pool mining all together. Everyone go back to solo mining, problem solved, :p

Even if you keep all the pools under 50% two pools combined would be well over 50% which can do far more damage and faster than 1 pool over 50%.
Sebz4n
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May 13, 2011, 01:57:38 PM
 #1423

Has live suppot been taken down?

I have a question; If I send Bitcoins to a buddy who is offline, will these get rejected, or just float around in the network until he is online?
[Tycho]
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May 13, 2011, 02:03:23 PM
 #1424

I have a question; If I send Bitcoins to a buddy who is offline, will these get rejected, or just float around in the network until he is online?
They will be added to his bitcoin address. He will see them when his bitcoin client downloads the block with this transaction.

You can send bitcoins to offline users.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
zpinto
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May 13, 2011, 04:37:10 PM
 #1425

Hi!
I had automatic minimum payment to 10. I didnt know exactly what it did.
Today i passed 10 bitcoins and they disappeared, guessing they were automatically transfered to my deepbit adress, so i went to bitcoin program to see if there was anything and nothing. Doesnt show any 10 bitcoin transfer. Where did they go?

EDIT: Nevermind, already showing!
OCNewB
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May 13, 2011, 05:18:04 PM
 #1426

Hi, 

  I just have a quick question, i'm currently mining at average 860+Mhash/s, do you think which method should i use? PPS or Proportional? I know the basic infos but i would love to know more base on your experience.
d3athrow
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May 13, 2011, 05:51:58 PM
 #1427

It sounds like you want to obliterate pool mining all together. Everyone go back to solo mining, problem solved, :p

Even if you keep all the pools under 50% two pools combined would be well over 50% which can do far more damage and faster than 1 pool over 50%.
And it sounds like you're a selfish child who doesn't know how bitcoins work. a single entity needs to be in control of >= 51% of the mining for the double spending attack to even be feasible. 2 entities at 30% won't do shit.
gusti
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May 13, 2011, 06:00:23 PM
 #1428

Tycho, in order to avoid all these hysterical voices  Tongue
please implement a second pool!  Wink

Just license the software a reputable member who is willing to run another pool.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
Veldy
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May 13, 2011, 06:00:52 PM
 #1429

It sounds like you want to obliterate pool mining all together. Everyone go back to solo mining, problem solved, :p

Even if you keep all the pools under 50% two pools combined would be well over 50% which can do far more damage and faster than 1 pool over 50%.
And it sounds like you're a selfish child who doesn't know how bitcoins work. a single entity needs to be in control of >= 51% of the mining for the double spending attack to even be feasible. 2 entities at 30% won't do shit.

They can work together and then yes, it is an issue.  It is more difficult for an cracker and hacker to take over two pools.  I would like to see three or for roughly equal size pools personally and all secured and ideally not running the same stock code (or craving and hacking multiple pools would be much easier).

If you have found my post helpful, please donate what you feel it is worth: 18vaZ4K62WiL6W2Qoj9AE1cerfCHRaUW4x
mroth7684
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May 13, 2011, 06:35:02 PM
 #1430

I'm failing to see you're point on multiple pools. Even if there was 4 equal size pools it would take almost nothing to ddos 3 of the pools off the network causing everyone to surge to 1 pool. I'm sure these pool owners aren't operating a google size network where DDOS attack won't phase them. Even VISA and multiple other enterprise corporations fell victim to DDOS attacks all at the same time during the wikileaks fiasco.

I still say if the system has this big of a flaw it never should have been adopted in the first place. The bitcoin system reminds me of the Death Star from Star Wars... Just gotta fire a single shot into the exhaust and it blows up.
Veldy
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May 13, 2011, 06:49:02 PM
 #1431

I'm failing to see you're point on multiple pools. Even if there was 4 equal size pools it would take almost nothing to ddos 3 of the pools off the network causing everyone to surge to 1 pool. I'm sure these pool owners aren't operating a google size network where DDOS attack won't phase them. Even VISA and multiple other enterprise corporations fell victim to DDOS attacks all at the same time during the wikileaks fiasco.

I still say if the system has this big of a flaw it never should have been adopted in the first place. The bitcoin system reminds me of the Death Star from Star Wars... Just gotta fire a single shot into the exhaust and it blows up.

Which is EXACTLY why I asked Tycho to voluntarily take measures to keep his pool from ever going above 50%.  When I asked this, simply closing registration probably would have been adequate, but that is no longer the case.

If you have found my post helpful, please donate what you feel it is worth: 18vaZ4K62WiL6W2Qoj9AE1cerfCHRaUW4x
mroth7684
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May 13, 2011, 07:04:13 PM
 #1432

I'm failing to see you're point on multiple pools. Even if there was 4 equal size pools it would take almost nothing to ddos 3 of the pools off the network causing everyone to surge to 1 pool. I'm sure these pool owners aren't operating a google size network where DDOS attack won't phase them. Even VISA and multiple other enterprise corporations fell victim to DDOS attacks all at the same time during the wikileaks fiasco.

I still say if the system has this big of a flaw it never should have been adopted in the first place. The bitcoin system reminds me of the Death Star from Star Wars... Just gotta fire a single shot into the exhaust and it blows up.

Which is EXACTLY why I asked Tycho to voluntarily take measures to keep his pool from ever going above 50%.  When I asked this, simply closing registration probably would have been adequate, but that is no longer the case.

What's to stop someone from starting their own pool then writing a trojan or using a botnet to mine for their pool for the soul purpose of attacking the bitcoin system. I work in the IT dept of a very large (lets call it a corporation) we have over 10,000 HP EliteBook 8540w laptops at our discretion. I'm mining from mine and getting 65Mhash/s without any visible difference to the video performance. Let's say I create a service to mine bitcoins and push the service out to all 10,000 laptops that would give me 650Ghash/s by myself assuming a perfect setup where all laptops are deployed, in use, and online. I would now control ~25% of the total hashing power. This is just small scale example; if you applied the same theory to a worldwide computing trojan which could get up to 1.4Thash/s... bye bye bitcoin
zoro
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May 13, 2011, 07:46:10 PM
 #1433

why would you want to say buy buy to something that generates you money? even the so-called bad guys wants to get profit :p

"killer app" of BTC = MasterCoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0Mastercoin(A new protocol layer on top of Bitcoin)
mroth7684
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May 13, 2011, 07:55:31 PM
 #1434

why would you want to say buy buy to something that generates you money? even the so-called bad guys wants to get profit :p

They do it for the lulz, More profitable for them to see a community rage than to make a couple dollars, lol, It's like people who stood in line to buy the first PS3 and then smashed it in front of everyone else waiting in line.
VTCarter
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May 13, 2011, 08:02:11 PM
 #1435

If you'll take a look at http://bitcoinwatch.com/ you'll see that the community nature of bitcoin is already winning over such fears. Tycho has never come out against others opening new pools and why would he? To do so would be self defeating. As for double spending, remember the chained nature of the blocks? Processing always jumps to the longest most consistent chain, sure you might 'momentarily' get away with a double spend if you controlled over 51%, but not for long. The other 49% isn't exactly on a lunch break and WILL catch it. Anyway this argument is moot as according to Bitcoinwatch Deepbits share of the hashpool has indeed decreased as expected it would.





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and , oh yes... the Pool is most Defiantly Open!
spel565
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May 13, 2011, 09:05:54 PM
 #1436

Missclicked so i pressed Instant payout two times in a row, it stood my payment were 0.24, and  my next 0.02.
But i only recived the .02 and not my other 0.24. And only the 0.02 shows at transaction records  Sad
Is there something i can do?  Huh
TheShoura
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May 13, 2011, 09:45:04 PM
 #1437

Man in 15 days this pool has trippled in computational power. I myself have gone from 700Mh/s to 2.3Gh/s and plan on hitting 4Gh/s by the end of the month haha

If you would like to send me a tip: 1HVGGWGWgHkyh9K8sntkZmXoiopX8Bsvv8

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tgdollaz
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May 13, 2011, 09:52:14 PM
 #1438

Hey Tycho,

Can you explain how the stat under "My Account" that shows "BTC in last 24h" is calculated? I have 4 overclocked 5850's running at 1200 mh/s in your pool, and I do an instant payout ever 24 hours at the exact time so I can keep track of what I earn every single day. However my balance is usually off a decent amount from what is shown in "BTC in last 24h". I understand that there is pool variance but when I take the statistics for pool luck into consideration it is still off. I'm on a proportional payout. For instance right now I'm about two hours away from doing my daily withdrawal, and and the pool statistics show that the pool is +5.5% and my actual earnings are 30% below my "last 24h stat. The weird thing is that plugging my hash rate into your pay per share estimator show that I would earn more on average by doing PPS despite the 10% fee. This has happened consistently where the actual earnings are less than the stated amount. I will update this post in 2 hours to show my exact withdrawal amount versus the stated amount earned. I would appreciate any insight here, as it feels like I should be earning a bit more than I am right now. Thank you. Also, anyone with about the same hash rate care to compare numbers with me? I'd like to compare payout and see if something is off with my system or if misunderstanding some of these statistics. Please PM if you don't want to disclose your earnings publicly, thank you.
TheShoura
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May 13, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
 #1439

Hey Tycho,

Can you explain how the stat under "My Account" that shows "BTC in last 24h" is calculated? I have 4 overclocked 5850's running at 1200 mh/s in your pool, and I do an instant payout ever 24 hours at the exact time so I can keep track of what I earn every single day. However my balance is usually off a decent amount from what is shown in "BTC in last 24h". I understand that there is pool variance but when I take the statistics for pool luck into consideration it is still off. I'm on a proportional payout. For instance right now I'm about two hours away from doing my daily withdrawal, and and the pool statistics show that the pool is +5.5% and my actual earnings are 30% below my "last 24h stat. The weird thing is that plugging my hash rate into your pay per share estimator show that I would earn more on average by doing PPS despite the 10% fee. This has happened consistently where the actual earnings are less than the stated amount. I will update this post in 2 hours to show my exact withdrawal amount versus the stated amount earned. I would appreciate any insight here, as it feels like I should be earning a bit more than I am right now. Thank you. Also, anyone with about the same hash rate care to compare numbers with me? I'd like to compare payout and see if something is off with my system or if misunderstanding some of these statistics. Please PM if you don't want to disclose your earnings publicly, thank you.

You never said how much you're actually earning... at 1100 Mh/s I would expect generation around 1.5-2 coins per day

If you would like to send me a tip: 1HVGGWGWgHkyh9K8sntkZmXoiopX8Bsvv8

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tgdollaz
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May 13, 2011, 10:03:46 PM
 #1440

Hey Tycho,

Can you explain how the stat under "My Account" that shows "BTC in last 24h" is calculated? I have 4 overclocked 5850's running at 1200 mh/s in your pool, and I do an instant payout ever 24 hours at the exact time so I can keep track of what I earn every single day. However my balance is usually off a decent amount from what is shown in "BTC in last 24h". I understand that there is pool variance but when I take the statistics for pool luck into consideration it is still off. I'm on a proportional payout. For instance right now I'm about two hours away from doing my daily withdrawal, and and the pool statistics show that the pool is +5.5% and my actual earnings are 30% below my "last 24h stat. The weird thing is that plugging my hash rate into your pay per share estimator show that I would earn more on average by doing PPS despite the 10% fee. This has happened consistently where the actual earnings are less than the stated amount. I will update this post in 2 hours to show my exact withdrawal amount versus the stated amount earned. I would appreciate any insight here, as it feels like I should be earning a bit more than I am right now. Thank you. Also, anyone with about the same hash rate care to compare numbers with me? I'd like to compare payout and see if something is off with my system or if misunderstanding some of these statistics. Please PM if you don't want to disclose your earnings publicly, thank you.

You never said how much you're actually earning... at 1100 Mh/s I would expect generation around 1.5-2 coins per day

Last 4 days at 1200 mh/s im getting around 6.5 coins a day.
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